IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #18

[Bootsctr]

MotherOcean, we will miss you, but we understand. :heartbeat::grouphug:raying:

 

[Bootsctr]

There is an area near my neighborhood that is fairly remote-set back in the woods, not obvious from the normal walking paths, and I have never seen anyone else walking on it. I figure it is some trail that has partially overgrown because it isn't used anymore especially because there are no houses close to it. It can be a bit creepy. I walk my dog there when I want some privacy and quiet. Anyway, this morning around 10am I came across two bikes laying somewhat haphazardly on the trail. One was a little girl bike and one was a bit bigger. It seriously creeped me out because A. it reminded me of this case, obviously but also 2. I can no longer see a random bike or two laying out and think it is nothing. Websleuths has "ruined" me.
I told my landlord and our neighborhood security guard and they were both like, uh? So? You saw a bike? What?

Thinking of Lyric and Elizabeth and praying LE is closing in on an answer as we speak.

:what: I would have been creeped out too. The girls' disappearance has had a profound effect on all of us. I don't think one of us will ever look at a bike laying about without thinking of Elizabeth and Lyric and I am sure we will be taking a mental picture.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I'm not going to be able to keep up with the conversation for a few days. We have a hurricane in the Gulf (I'm on the coast) and my beloved dad was diagnosed with stage 3 lung cancer yesterday morning. He's on a ventilator and they can't get him off of it because he's so sick right now. Not trying to add to the drama, but I don't want to just disappear for awhile and anyone to think I've given up on these precious girls. They are in my constant prayers. I would give anything in the world if today would be the day that they come home. I hope to check back in soon and read the blessed news that they are home safe and sound.

Sending you safe wishes and prayers for your dad and your family.,

 

[CN2Souls]

thanks nursebeeme, I am still a bit hesitant to put the post numbers on there as you (mods) have had to spend so much time cleaning up threads, which then alters the post numbering, as pointed out by CN2Souls earlier.

I think I will stick with my specific/vague tightrope for now, but we all have to find our own searchable means for tagging, lol

Maybe if we are really really good we can get some one in Admin or Android who works the magic, to but back links on those tags and they will bring you straight to the exact post...:rocker:
Because right now when you click on them they just bring you to the General thread and then you need to search the thread some 55 pages and 1000 of post.

Back link would ...........presto......zingo........... shazam..................... you are right on the post...

This link will also help teach you how to search on Websleuth
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/faq.php?faq=vb3_board_usage#faq_vb3_search

 

[LaylaD]

this would be an excellent place to compile something along these lines

IA IA-Elizabeth Collins, 8,&Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 *Media/Maps/TmLne* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


this is the media/timeline/maps thread that is no discussion. If anyone wants to start putting it together I would be more than happy to help edit it all into one post per topic.

excellent idea and gives us something to do in this lull in the investigation

I just added a post on the media/timeline/maps thread that includes links to the video footage of the LE press conferences, as recorded by KGAN. It would probably be helpful to add a brief description of what is covered in each presser, but I don't have the time to annotate them at this time. I have not found transcripts of the pressers, which would be helpful. I know I'd rather watch the entire presser, as opposed to focusing on the sound bites pulled out by the media.

 

[mahoolin]

Chief Deputy Rick Abben saying the girls were going in the opposite direction of the lake has never made sense to me.

Look at a map or imagine a triangle balanced on one point. No matter which way you move along the side on top, you're not really moving towards or away from the point. If you move far enough, then sure, you'd be moving away from the lake but from where that video was shot, that cannot be ascertained.

I have long wondered if he let slip a teensy-tiny clue with that. Since the girls were riding west in that video, did he unconsciously let slip that their bicycles were pointed west when found at the lake? In that context, saying they were going the opposite direction makes sense.

I can't think of any other context in which saying that would make sense.

BBM

Unless he had information, maybe another security camera showing them heading away from the lake and/or a witness we're unaware of. Meaning, not east or west then veering towards the lake, but biking on a street northward as opposed to south towards the lake. (I'm directionally challenged with maps, just mean not heading towards the beach visually)

Hope that makes sense. Maybe it wasn't so much of a slip as a statement and didn't pertain to the direction of the bicycles or the bicycles at all, just that the girls didn't appear to be heading there? :waitasec:

 

[Adair88]

BBM

Unless he had information, maybe another security camera showing them heading away from the lake and/or a witness we're unaware of. Meaning, not east or west then veering towards the lake, but biking on a street northward as opposed to south towards the lake. (I'm directionally challenged with maps, just mean not heading towards the beach visually)

Hope that makes sense. Maybe it wasn't so much of a slip as a statement and didn't pertain to the direction of the bicycles or the bicycles at all, just that the girls didn't appear to be heading there? :waitasec:

Correct. I believe everyone assumed the girls would have been going the most direct route to Meyer's Lake, which would be going East on Lafayette Street, to going South on the Nature Trail, and down behind Arbutus, entering behind the Lake and riding to the West. The security video shows them riding West and approaching River Forest Road. River Forest also leads South towards the Lake, but is a busy street and not the most direct route. However, the girls could have turned down River Forest Road and cut back East on any street running parallel to the Lake. It's not as if kids always know the most direct routes to a location! If they were riding down River Forest Road, there is more likelihood for a sighting, and they would have entered the Lake via the parking lot, ridden past the playground, and then gone behind the Lake on the trail riding East before encountering the rock jetty and wooded area. If they were riding fast enough, I suppose they could have done it this way, but I haven't tried to ride the route myself to know. :moo:

So the idea of 'riding away from the Lake' does not make sense as they were riding parallel to the Lake in the video.

 

[Sunlight]

Believe me, I have been aware of this sighting since the morning of July 14, and I have been so frustrated at the lack of 'awareness' (so to speak) by LE towards this very, very important information! So I know TG and his daughter were very detailed with regards to the times and these were all checked out by LE to confirm everything was just as they reported! Now, back to my original question - I don't know if he saw the girls' bikes for sure, and I don't know which direction they were facing when he saw them in the trail!

Oh..I see. So you spoke with the daughter before he reported it, i.e., the morning of the 14th and he reported it either that day or the next day. I'm always confused about these things, so sorry if I misunderstand. MOO

 

[mahoolin]

Correct. I believe everyone assumed the girls would have been going the most direct route to Meyer's Lake, which would be going East on Lafayette Street, to going South on the Nature Trail, and down behind Arbutus, entering behind the Lake and riding to the West. The security video shows them riding West and approaching River Forest Road. River Forest also leads South towards the Lake, but is a busy street and not the most direct route. However, the girls could have turned down River Forest Road and cut back East on any street running parallel to the Lake. It's not as if kids always know the most direct routes to a location! If they were riding down River Forest Road, there is more likelihood for a sighting, and they would have entered the Lake via the parking lot, ridden past the playground, and then gone behind the Lake on the trail riding East before encountering the rock jetty and wooded area. If they were riding fast enough, I suppose they could have done it this way, but I haven't tried to ride the route myself to know. :moo:

So the idea of 'riding away from the Lake' does not make sense as they were riding parallel to the Lake in the video.

Not discounting your scenario being a local and familiar with the streets, and knowing all the different ways to get there but...

I don't think I made myself clear
I meant - they are not going to the lake at all. period. nada. The east or west direction is irrelevant because the lake is not in the picture.
I was just supposing that Abben meant they were heading away from the lake literally - not just choosing a roundabout way to get there.
Does that make sense? I'm having a hard time expressing myself.

West<-------- and this---------> East and then going south V towards the lake isn't important because they weren't going there at that point in time.

I think they were going ^(up) towards somewhere else and the lake is V (down)

Hope my arrows help -

 

[Bootsctr]

BBM

Unless he had information, maybe another security camera showing them heading away from the lake and/or a witness we're unaware of. Meaning, not east or west then veering towards the lake, but biking on a street northward as opposed to south towards the lake. (I'm directionally challenged with maps, just mean not heading towards the beach visually)

Hope that makes sense. Maybe it wasn't so much of a slip as a statement and didn't pertain to the direction of the bicycles or the bicycles at all, just that the girls didn't appear to be heading there? :waitasec:

Which makes me think Mr. Abben doesn't believe the girls were abducted from the lake at all which makes me think he does believe the bikes were staged. Somebody stop the merry-go-round and let me off! :rollercoaster:

 

[cluciano63]

I just had a very weird feeling today, like a deja vu in advance kind of thing, that the sames things being discussed now will be discussed two years from now...like the McStay family. I don't know why, I never have these kinds of feelings and don't necessarily believe in them and hope I am wrong.

 

[mahoolin]

Which makes me think Mr. Abben doesn't believe the girls were abducted from the lake at all which makes me think he does believe the bikes were staged. Somebody stop the merry-go-round and let me off! :rollercoaster:

Me too!! I had this all solved and the girls were coming home in a dream the other night. Can't remember the dream though now lease:

OT - but over 4 hours on one page? where is everybody? and where are all the posts?? I feel like I'm missing something here...... :waitasec:

 

[Adair88]

Not discounting your scenario being a local and familiar with the streets, and knowing all the different ways to get there but...

I don't think I made myself clear
I meant - they are not going to the lake at all. period. nada. The east or west direction is irrelevant because the lake is not in the picture.
I was just supposing that Abben meant they were heading away from the lake literally - not just choosing a roundabout way to get there.
Does that make sense? I'm having a hard time expressing myself.

West<-------- and this---------> East and then going south V towards the lake isn't important because they weren't going there at that point in time.

I think they were going ^(up) towards somewhere else and the lake is V (down)

Hope my arrows help -

Sure, anything is possible! IMO they were there, due the the bloodhounds following their scent and a few things.

 

[threecrazykids]

TG called in his information to Evansdale police on Saturday 7/14 or Sunday 7/15.

He did not receive any call back to further discuss his sighting, so he rode down to Meyer's Lake on Monday 7/16 and this is when the picture was taken. He rides the trail every day, so this is not out of the ordinary for him.

He then reported it again to Evansdale police in person on 7/16.

snipped, bolded etc by me (to take out what I have questions on...hopefully you can answer my questions)

Again...let me preface by saying I praise TG over and over for his actions so I'm not bashing him. I'm trying to understand the LE actions and MSM reports and photos (while sadly taking into account that your statement would still technically be considered hearsay as this rendition isn't given by TG himself)

Ok...so, what I see in this account may give us some clues. In your statement you've stated that TG reported his sighting 3 different times and only AFTER the 3rd attempt did LE come to speak with him. Why? :waitasec: Let's analyze this...

I would have thought that someone who reports they saw the bikes laying on the path the day these girls went missing could have been a HUGE breakthrough (if they had nothing else to go on)...and yet they didn't even follow up on it. This makes me wonder if LE already HAD their evidence/ clues of what happened and that this sighting didn't change or alter what their evidence already supported. If his sighting supports the already collected evidence then there really is no reason to mention TG.

Maybe they already can prove an EARLIER time when the bikes were there (possibly by other witnesses) so later accounts are just additional proof that the bikes never moved from that spot?

Maybe that is why they didn't jump on contacting him...because they still needed someone to come forward BEFORE the time he saw the bikes...as someone else had already confirmed they were there around the same time TG saw them?

I'm trying to read between the lines...:banghead:

 

[peeples]

I was just thinking out loud.. Welcome Adair..
I know I walk daily for exercise. I do get some thinking done.. But I have not stopped walking to make a phone call kwim.. business or not we all have things to do.Generally that time we make to exercise is our own..

I frequently facebook check craigslist etc while i'm walking lol maybe i'm alone on that

 

[Gracelin]

snipped, bolded etc by me (to take out what I have questions on...hopefully you can answer my questions)

Again...let me preface by saying I praise TG over and over for his actions so I'm not bashing him. I'm trying to understand the LE actions and MSM reports and photos (while sadly taking into account that your statement would still technically be considered hearsay as this rendition isn't given by TG himself)

Ok...so, what I see in this account may give us some clues. In your statement you've stated that TG reported his sighting 3 different times and only AFTER the 3rd attempt did LE come to speak with him. Why? :waitasec: Let's analyze this...

I would have thought that someone who reports they saw the bikes laying on the path the day these girls went missing could have been a HUGE breakthrough (if they had nothing else to go on)...and yet they didn't even follow up on it. This makes me wonder if LE already HAD their evidence/ clues of what happened and that this sighting didn't change or alter what their evidence already supported. If his sighting supports the already collected evidence then there really is no reason to mention TG.

Maybe they already can prove an EARLIER time when the bikes were there (possibly by other witnesses) so later accounts are just additional proof that the bikes never moved from that spot?

Maybe that is why they didn't jump on contacting him...because they still needed someone to come forward BEFORE the time he saw the bikes...as someone else had already confirmed they were there around the same time TG saw them?

I'm trying to read between the lines...:banghead:

I think LE focused on the lake..It seemed to be the natural conclusion..
The ball was dropped on these girls..Human error is to blame..

 

[mahoolin]

Sure, anything is possible! IMO they were there, due the the bloodhounds following their scent and a few things.

I think they were there too, just that they weren't on there way there at that point in time.

I think they were there earlier in the day...

.....wish these girls were found and on their way home!!!! lease:


*thanks for all your local insights and info - we really appreciate it!!! :clap:

 

[ShyViolet]

I am working on catching up today, but wanted to comment on the questions regarding TG's sighting and the picture being discussed. I watched all this information unfold as a local and spoke directly to TG's daughter about the sighting. He saw bikes in the path on 7/13 around 12:23pm. He guessed this time because he continued riding the path, went to the bathrooms at the entrance of Meyer's Lake and filled his water bottle at the faucets there. After that, he called his daughter to ask her to place a CL add for some hay for sale (or something like that...). When he heard later that night or the next day about the missing girls, he checked the time of his call on his phone, and it said 12:27pm. His daughter's phone said 12:28 when she received the call. A CL ad was placed by his daughter at 12:33pm, after his phone call request. Maybe you could WS that ad??

TG called in his information to Evansdale police on Saturday 7/14 or Sunday 7/15. He did not receive any call back to further discuss his sighting, so he rode down to Meyer's Lake on Monday 7/16 and this is when the picture was taken. He rides the trail every day, so this is not out of the ordinary for him. He then reported it again to Evansdale police in person on 7/16. I did share in a previous post that the FBI arrived at his daughter's house later that week looking for her father. They did speak to him and her, although TG's sighting has not been publicly reported. IMO, this picture was taken facing East, looking towards Arbutus, on the back of the trail. Yes, an area of the trail was taped off, but it was limited to the wooded area up to the rock jetty and gate - until they drained the lake, then the entire trail around the lake was fenced off.

After they drained the lake and it was opened back up to the public, TG went back and timed his trip again. He discovered it took him about 3 minutes from when he saw the bikes to ride to the bathroom, fill his water bottle, and make a call. So that places the sighting at 12:24pm - according to his phone. I hope that can clarify some confusion!

BBM. Thanks for filling us in. The part about filling his water at the Myer's Lake bathrooms caught my eye, as I always thought he went to Casey's to use the bathroom. Wonder where that came from?

 

[Adair88]

BBM. Thanks for filling us in. The part about filling his water at the Myer's Lake bathrooms caught my eye, as I always thought he went to Casey's to use the bathroom. Wonder where that came from?

You're right there. My information came from his daughter. I have seen it reported by Ollipop here and on another forum that he went to Casey's and then made the phone call. Since the other poster said he reported he went to Casey's, then I would correct my information and assume his daughter was incorrect on which bathroom he used. Casey's would be much farther away obviously, for timeline purposes! Funny such a strange detail means so much!

 

[GrainneDhu]

I don't find it odd whatsoever that TG called his daughter about the hay while out. Obviously, it was something he forgot to do earlier and since horses have to eat, he called his daughter to place the ad because he was out and couldn't do it. Sometimes things are really just that simple.

This year the first cutting of hay was early (almost a month early in my area) and then... nothing. The second cutting of hay is usually mid to late July in Iowa. Second cut is considered ideal for most horses (third cut is better for horses that tend to founder).

So if TG usually bales his own hay, he may have been mentally wrestling over whether he was actually going to get a second cut or not. No one likes to buy hay in a drought year because the prices always shoot up, both for the hay itself and for the transportation to get it into a drought region.

But horses don't pay no mind to the state of the weather and the wallet, they just keep right on eating like usual.

So someone who owns horses is faced with a dilemma. Buy hay early and locally, which means first cutting which is not as nutritious and has a lot more sugar in it (very bad for horses that tend to founder)? Buy hay later and from further away, which means second cutting which is higher quality and best for most horses but more expensive? Hold on, see what the weather does and gamble on getting a very late second cutting of hay, which would be more like third cut hay in quality (not so good, except for horses that tend to founder)?

It's not like going to the grocery store and picking up some fresh veggies. There are a lot of variable to consider and a certain amount of gambling to do.

I think a bicycle ride would be the perfect time to make such a decision and since he had gotten off his bicycle to use the restroom and re-fill his water container, why not call his daughter with the decision as well?

I know when I have to make such decisions, the uncertainty is the hardest part and once I feel I have committed to a certain option, I just want to get it over with.