IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #18

[foxbluff]

Another thought that came to mind, has there been any carnivals traveling in the area? Sometimes they have some shady characters running the games and rides.

I appreciate your throwing out some of your good thoughts (particularly on a weekend where there are fewer people "on board" to appreciate/respond).

Personally, I haven't considered a carnival. I have, however, wondered from time to time about the nearby campground as a possible source of "shady characters". (Not because I have any knowledge of said campground or about anybody who has ever camped there, but because I have knowledge of a rural campground on a large manmade lake which became a resort area in a different state. The owner of that campground would tell me from time-to-time about government raids/arrests made at the campgrounds. Per him, he learned from various LE officers that campgrounds, all over the U.S., were "hotbeds" for fugitives from justice, etc. MOO

 

[otto]

Feelings, based on nothing.

A few days ago a poster (sorry, I don't remember who) talked about being the aunt in the family that everyone thought was weird but learned to lisiten when she said something was going to happen. I'm that aunt in my family. Weird but often right about things she can't know.

That said, this photo freaks me out. I don't think its the boat, maybe the leaning dock but my strongest reaction is to the walkway behind the paddleboat I have no clue who owns these properties, but I just FEEL our girls were here.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25117&d=1343591096

We know that the girls were on Brovan, we know that there bikes were at the lake. That's two places where they may have been. Why do you think that they would have been at a third place along the lake?

Someone posted an analogy the other day ... one that makes a lot of sense. If someone robbed a bank, would they go next door to spend the money? If someone kidnapped two girls with the confusing factor of bikes in an unusual location, would they then go next door to hide the girls? It doesn't add up.

It seems to make a lot more sense that the girls were either abducted in the parking lot where they were last seen, or at the lake where their bikes were found ... but then, they would have been removed from the area very quickly.

Also, police have requested information from anyone that was on a paddleboat on the afternoon of July 13. Does this mean the girls were abducted in a paddleboat that travels very slowly and which would be very visible in the lake? If police had requested information from anyone that was pushing a stroller, would that mean that the girls were abducted in a stroller? I think we have to be careful not to leap to conclusions.

 

[LaylaD]

There is a special event that is on my "radar screen".

It's been on my radar screen also. One of the first things I noticed, partially due to an org sponsoring it. I wasn't aware of the ritualistic aspects. That concerns me.

 

[SapphireSteel]

This appears too well planned to be an impulsive act.

The fact that both girls were taken implies -

they went willingly or
there was more than one perp.

I sincerely doubt this was a random "lets hang out in a small town just in case we see what we like" type of crime, simply because it would be a massive risk with no guaranteed payoff.

A bike path would not be the place I'd go to abduct a child, simply because they'd PROBABLY be on bikes and that much harder to catch.

I would go to a playground or a school or somewhere kids gather so you could "pick" one...like Jaycee...or, the old stalking and midnight break in scenario as in the case of Elizabeth Smart or Polly Klass.

I would not hang around a bike path or a lake on the off chance that what I was looking for would happen by. Every second the perp was at that location was another second he could be seen, or his vehicle could be seen, just asking to be caught. In this stranger wary age, sitting in a car anywhere for very long could well result in your number plate being written down, or a phone call made to LE by a concerned citizen. Too risky with too little guarantee of a pay off.

Further, we know these girls had been taught stranger danger, also self protective behaviours. A random perp is going to encounter a struggle of some sort. There are no signs of one here, in fact quite the opposite with the purse and bikes set down neatly.

:moo:

 

[Jax49]

We know that the girls were on Brovan, we know that there bikes were at the lake. That's two places where they may have been. Why do you think that they would have been at a third place along the lake?

Someone posted an analogy the other day ... one that makes a lot of sense. If someone robbed a bank, would they go next door to spend the money? If someone kidnapped two girls with the confusing factor of bikes in an unusual location, would they then go next door to hide the girls? It doesn't add up.

It seems to make a lot more sense that the girls were either abducted in the parking lot where they were last seen, or at the lake where their bikes were found ... but then, they would have been removed from the area very quickly.

Also, police have requested information from anyone that was on a paddleboat on the afternoon of July 13. Does this mean the girls were abducted in a paddleboat that travels very slowly and which would be very visible in the lake? If police had requested information from anyone that was pushing a stroller, would that mean that the girls were abducted in a stroller? I think we have to be careful not to leap to conclusions.

I agree with what you are saying. But, there is no logic involved on my part. Simply a feeling. BTW, I don't get any feeling at all involving the paddleboat.
Also, doesn't feel as if they remained there. Just there for a very short amount of time.

 

[MotherOcean]

It's been on my radar screen also. One of the first things I noticed, partially due to an org sponsoring it. I wasn't aware of the ritualistic aspects. That concerns me.

I don't know what org you may be referring to but I know it was heavily promoted in the two Vineyard churches attended by the family members.

 

[RNER]

How is he being sleuthed if he didn't go to the media? Did LE release his identity?

That is in theory what could happen "next week". It just happened this AM-they haven't even released the vicim's identity, the "circumstances", or his identity yet. It's a small town/city where everyone knows everyone. Scanner activity is monitored by many, and facebook associations are numerous. Local newspaper has already covered it online with the usual "updates will be released as they become avaialable". He and his friend that picked him up are well-known, involved and respected in the community, so I hope it doesn't turn to "next week".

 

[Jules71]

<deleted>

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[otto]

Scenario:

Today-A well-known and respected man in the community who has kids, a high-paying job, beautiful house/land, church involvement, coaching positions within the city drives down a country road from an "errand" 50 miles from his home to get to church before the morning service starts. He comes upon the nearly dead victim of a "circumstance" (not determined a crime yet) on that country road, calls police and EMS on his cell phone and they arrive on the scene. The victim is transported to a hospital and police conduct an investigation, including stopping traffic around the road and town and questioning the one and only witness.

The "witness" is distraught, in shock beyond tears, and physically ill from what he has witnessed and the unknown circumstances of it. He calls a friend to come the 50 miles to take him home, because of the emotional devastation.

Next week-Sleuthing, stalking, facebook rumors, speculation, etc attack every aspect of the witness's life. This causes him turmoil in his everyday life. His job, his repuation in the community, his family is scrutinized with a fine tooth comb. He can't discuss the situation with anyone besides family and close friends for fear of being further ridiculed and questioned. The witness is now considered a suspect or POI by the community, when the only thing he did was make a phone call to save the life of a victim.

This "witness" is my brother...and "today" (above) is TODAY!!!!!

Sure did change my perspective of things!

Excellent point ... and this also informs us as to why police are not releasing any other witness tips, including possible information from people that were paddleboating that afternoon. There is already a broad assumption that anyone that was on the lake in a paddleboat must have kidnapped the children, so if a name was released to the publiic, that person's reputation would be dragged through the mud over and over again. If teenagers borrowed a paddleboat without permission, their reputations and futures would be irrepairably damaged if the media published names. I think that for police to expect people to come forward with information, they also have to guarantee privacy.

This is one point where I think the US laws fail people. Everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty, but when we combine talking heads and media sensationalism with access to information, we have people that are publicly persecuted because of peripheral relationships to crimes. In many other countries, limited information is available about a crime until a trial and then only the facts are available. This seems like a more effective method for protecting innocent bystanders and ensuring that those with relevant information continue to communicate that information to authorities.

 

[Snowbunny]

I agree with what you are saying. But, there is no logic involved on my part. Simply a feeling. BTW, I don't get any feeling at all involving the paddleboat.
Also, doesn't feel as if they remained there. Just there for a very short amount of time.

It might be possible that someone was seen in a paddle boat and someone mentioned it to LE and LE might want to talk to that person thinking they might have seen something going on in the area that day that might be vital to the investigation. Or it possible that someone was seen in a paddle boat with kids in the boat, but only LE would know what's going on and apparently they aren't willing to share their reasoning.

 

[otto]

This appears too well planned to be an impulsive act.

The fact that both girls were taken implies -

they went willingly or
there was more than one perp.

I sincerely doubt this was a random "lets hang out in a small town just in case we see what we like" type of crime, simply because it would be a massive risk with no guaranteed payoff.

A bike path would not be the place I'd go to abduct a child, simply because they'd PROBABLY be on bikes and that much harder to catch.

I would go to a playground or a school or somewhere kids gather so you could "pick" one...like Jaycee...or, the old stalking and midnight break in scenario as in the case of Elizabeth Smart or Polly Klass.

I would not hang around a bike path or a lake on the off chance that what I was looking for would happen by. Every second the perp was at that location was another second he could be seen, or his vehicle could be seen, just asking to be caught. In this stranger wary age, sitting in a car anywhere for very long could well result in your number plate being written down, or a phone call made to LE by a concerned citizen. Too risky with too little guarantee of a pay off.

Further, we know these girls had been taught stranger danger, also self protective behaviours. A random perp is going to encounter a struggle of some sort. There are no signs of one here, in fact quite the opposite with the purse and bikes set down neatly.

:moo:

The fact that two girls were taken does not imply that the girls went willingly or that there were two perps. All that is needed is one perp with a weapon.

Hanging out in a small town looking for a victim doesn't seem like massive risk with no payoff. It's a small town where people are not expecting bad things to happen. If someone sees two children and their bikes being loaded into a van, it would be assumed that the children were being picked up by a parent. It wouldn't look unusual at all. Besides, opportunistic abductions can happen anywhere ... small down, big city, remote road ... there's no one place that is excluded because of it's size.

Grabbing children on bikes doesn't seem that unusual, especially in a parking lot or on a trail where there are fences preventing children from getting away.

I'm of the opinion that all the "stranger danger" education available is not necessarily going to help children, especially if there is a weapon. Adults are well aware of "stranger danger", yet women are abducted. Clearly knowledge of stranger danger does not prevent abductions.

 

[Snowbunny]

It could have been as simple as someone pulling up to the girls on the road asking them if they had seen a dog that was missing in the lake area and offering to pay them to help find the pet. Kids have a soft heart when it comes to pets.

 

[MotherOcean]

It's been on my radar screen also. One of the first things I noticed, partially due to an org sponsoring it. I wasn't aware of the ritualistic aspects. That concerns me.

BBM --

There is a lot of info. available about the ritualism associated with this group. Here is one source of info.:

http://www.erwm.com/Resurrecting_Pagan_Rights.pdf

Not trying to get too far off topic, but I thought you or others may be interested.

 

[Confusion]

Hanging out in a small town looking for a victim doesn't seem like massive risk with no payoff. It's a small town where people are not expecting bad things to happen. If someone sees two children and their bikes being loaded into a van, it would be assumed that the children were being picked up by a parent. It wouldn't look unusual at all.

SBM BBM MOO etc.

THe problem with that thought is that in a small town, the chances are that someone who sees the child and bike being loaded into a van will at least know who the child is (and who the parents are), and is fairly likely to actually know the family. Large cities may have more possible witnesses, but they also have the "safety" of anonymity.

 

[katydid23]

BBM --

There is a lot of info. available about the ritualism associated with this group. Here is one source of info.:

http://www.erwm.com/Resurrecting_Pagan_Rights.pdf

Not trying to get too far off topic, but I thought you or others may be interested.

It is not really OT because it was Friday the 13th and that group was in town for the weekend. So imo, it is something to consider.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The fact that two girls were taken does not imply that the girls went willingly or that there were two perps. All that is needed is one perp with a weapon.

Hanging out in a small town looking for a victim doesn't seem like massive risk with no payoff. It's a small town where people are not expecting bad things to happen. If someone sees two children and their bikes being loaded into a van, it would be assumed that the children were being picked up by a parent. It wouldn't look unusual at all. Besides, opportunistic abductions can happen anywhere ... small down, big city, remote road ... there's no one place that is excluded because of it's size.

Grabbing children on bikes doesn't seem that unusual, especially in a parking lot or on a trail where there are fences preventing children from getting away.

I'm of the opinion that all the "stranger danger" education available is not necessarily going to help children, especially if there is a weapon. Adults are well aware of "stranger danger", yet women are abducted. Clearly knowledge of stranger danger does not prevent abductions.

Do you have examples in mind?

Personally, I can't think of one...

:dunno:

 

[SapphireSteel]

It could have been as simple as someone pulling up to the girls on the road asking them if they had seen a dog that was missing in the lake area and offering to pay them to help find the pet. Kids have a soft heart when it comes to pets.

The girls were expected home.

Gramma was already cranky by 12.30.

It seems unlikely to me they would risk getting in trouble again no matter what the excuse.

:moo:

 

[otto]

SBM BBM MOO etc.

THe problem with that thought is that in a small town, the chances are that someone who sees the child and bike being loaded into a van will at least know who the child is (and who the parents are), and is fairly likely to actually know the family. Large cities may have more possible witnesses, but they also have the "safety" of anonymity.

In this small town of Evansdale, apparently that did not happen and two young girls were taken without anyone noticing.

 

[hambirg]

The fact that two girls were taken does not imply that the girls went willingly or that there were two perps. All that is needed is one perp with a weapon.

Hanging out in a small town looking for a victim doesn't seem like massive risk with no payoff. It's a small town where people are not expecting bad things to happen. If someone sees two children and their bikes being loaded into a van, it would be assumed that the children were being picked up by a parent. It wouldn't look unusual at all. Besides, opportunistic abductions can happen anywhere ... small down, big city, remote road ... there's no one place that is excluded because of it's size.

Grabbing children on bikes doesn't seem that unusual, especially in a parking lot or on a trail where there are fences preventing children from getting away.

I'm of the opinion that all the "stranger danger" education available is not necessarily going to help children, especially if there is a weapon. Adults are well aware of "stranger danger", yet women are abducted. Clearly knowledge of stranger danger does not prevent abductions.

I agree with this, but we also can't discount that the perp could be someone who wouldn't look out of place at all. . .a worker, or a local, etc.

Evansdale looks to be a pretty sleepy town. I can't discount that and the possibility that there seem to be places that maybe simply no one saw. If it was quick and there was a weapon used, just about anything is possible. I still can't discount the idea that the girls actually went willingly to a house or something either.

 

[dotr]

A few things going on that day/weekend. Haven't found any reunions yet.

Jessup Farmers Days
Plainfield Days
Hops & Grapes Event

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Reposting this attraction, imagining that it might draw extra people on a Friday 13...
http://www.hauntedhouse.com/search/...041/Iowa/harris_haven_funeral_home_12049.html

"

Harris Haven Funeral Home

Street Location:

3767 Lafayette Rd

City:

Evansdale Zip Code: 50707

Description:

"The horribleness and the awfulness will never be forgotten. Because at Harris Haven Funeral Home "we bury the competition"