IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #18

[elmomom]

This article relates to "attempted" abductions - one would assume they failed.

Further, it specifically states the child was ALONE.

Also, it doesn't state where the circumstances the attempted bike abductions took place - I can easily imagine a Mickey Shunick attempt where a vehicle is used to knock a child down, but that is not what has occurred here so to my mind, apples and oranges.

TWO children (ie. not alone) on bikes, OFF ROAD (no vehicle able to drive up behind/alongside them)...that is the type of abduction scenario I'm referring to. I don't believe an example exists.

This is a very peculiar abduction, no matter which way you look at it.

:cow:

ME! It happened to ME! I was biking with a friend and WE were made to stop and taken into woods by a guy with a knife. IT HAPPENS.
I am not telling the story for the third time, so if you really missed it and didn't just ignore it, you can find it by checking my posts.

 

[otto]

Gramma didn't want them to go out at all.

She reluctantly agreed to a SHORT bike ride at 11.30.

A short bike ride in my head is a quarter of an hour, a half at most. This would also fit in with why she got concerned - she expected them back by around 12ish.

Which doesn't fit with her NOT calling them in at 12.15 when she saw them...

Mind you she did mix up her times originally so that would explain this discrepancy.

:moo:

I haven't heard that the grandmother was "cranky", or that she didn't want the children to have a bike ride within calling distance of the house. I don't recall that she expected the children home at 12, but rather that she expected them to pop in for a drink and that they knew she had to leave for a 1:30 appointment.

 

[otto]

Campgrounds are a perfect place to hide out!

To the poster re: P.K organization,
I have read about this org. and I am aware of one member.
So many men hide behind this org.
they make out like they are the greatest thing
only they are doing joining if they are in a costody battle or sex abuse
to kids.

I am not saying all of them but I know that people hide out in all kinds of
places but we are not talking about all kinds of places we are talking about all of these men at these meetings on that date near where the girls live.
It is something to keep in mind.
Still I am more leaning toward a connection to the family in the drug world.

How would someone hide two children in a tent?

 

[nervous_nellie]

Why would we assume that the children were abducted and immediately taken somewhere close to where the bikes were found? The perp had a 3 hour head start before the bikes were found and a one week head start before it was officially declared an abduction. Common sense suggests to me that the perp wanted to get as far away from the bikes and the abduction sight as fast as possible.

i think it is just as possible. why should we assume that just because there was three hours time in between means that the perp had to be thinking that? the fact is is that non of us know & until they are found i think it is irresponsible to only consider one scenario. moo

 

[katydid23]

How would someone hide two children in a tent?

That Groene monster hid Sierra and her brother in a campground for weeks.

 

[mahoolin]

There is a special event that is on my "radar screen". It was held in a town very close to Evansdale. It began the evening of the 13th and went through the 14th. It drew 5000 men (no women) from all over the place. I imagine there were men there from many states, possibly even from other countries. It was one of several national events held this year by a very large men's organization. These events have drawn negative attention in the past while in other cities. One city's attention was particulary harsh after it was revealed by local reporters that the men were leaving the nightly meetings and flooding into local strip club's. That was notable and met with scorn because it is a religious organization.

Lots more I'd love to say about all that, but my theory is pretty crazy. LOL!

p.s. If you happen to guess the organization, please do not write out the name here. I don't want it to come up in any web searches. Yes, I am THAT paranoid about it.

Thought I had it figured out until religion was mentioned.
I found a convention that took place that weekend in Ames that was (i think) mostly men....
Just a thought, :moo:! Another one of, my crazy theories now that you brought the thought up -lol not meaning to point any fingers, but you think you know people...

 

[SapphireSteel]

Children riding their bikes are abducted with and without their bikes. This is not a new crime.

Respectfully disagree.

Children have been abducted on bikes before.

Two children have been abducted together before.

Two children have been abducted together from popular parks before.

The combination of ALL these aspects eg, two children, on bikes, in a popular park being abducted unseen and unheard is, to my mind, an entirely new and unique scenario.

:moo:

 

[ShyViolet]

Again, apples and oranges.

Jacob Wetterling was with a friend but taken ALONE.

You could use this example if both children were taken.

:dunno:

If you read back, you asked for examples where children had been grabbed off bikes. In Jacob's case, the perp had no trouble gaining control over 3 kids, 2 of whom were on bikes.

 

[Truman]

That is true. Except that 4 days earlier, when Lyric and her 12 yr old cousin went 'briefly missing'---it was later determined that the older cousin had been meeting up with an older male she met online. And they were somewhere with him, either in a car or a home. He was recently arrested for meeting with this younger girl.

So imo, it is not that far of a stretch to imagine that Lyric learned about this from being with her cousin 4 days prior. I had an older cousin and I followed in many of her questionable footsteps growing up. :angel:

Katy, I must have missed this! Is this "inside" information or was it reported in MSM? Has the man's name ever been mentioned?

 

[nervous_nellie]

How would someone hide two children in a tent?

RV park i think

 

[dotr]

Eek the description alone was enough to creep me out. Not a fan of haunted houses. It's great to brainstorm! But I think we can pretty much rule that one out. I was thinking it seemed a little odd that a haunted house would be open already, so I checked it out and looks like it's not open until October: http://www.harrishaven.com/dates.html. I don't know whether they might have people in town setting it up already or something like that, but it seems pretty early.

Probably not, but people have been working on it over the summer.
http://wcfcourier.com/business/local/article_433e1ff7-a1f4-5529-8d3d-12b7e09cac3f.html

 

[Snowbunny]

I remember one summer I took my two youngest kids who were teenagers at the time out to the Black Hills and we stayed in a campground in Spearfish. The owner of the campground had two young kids about 4 and 5 and these kids were allowed to run around the entire campground. They were in and out of everybody's camper and even in campers where nobody was there. These little ones were absolutely filthy and would just help themselves to whatever they wanted. The owner of the campground never went looking for his kids. I guess he was content to let the campers feed and entertain his two young kids. I can still see these two little kids running from one camper to another after 10pm at night. We left earlier than planned because there were people in that campground who made us feel uneasy but these two young kids didn't seem to have a care in the world and neither did their parents.

 

[otto]

That Groene monster hid Sierra and her brother in a campground for weeks.

Was it during the middle of summer vacation when campgrounds would be filled with families?

 

[Marilynilpa]

Someone asked earlier why there weren't as many people posting here anymore. I, for one, don't post here as often because there are certain posters so set on foisting their opinions/guesses/theories on everyone else that they have created an adversarial atmosphere, IMO.

It's good to discuss all options, but none of us, no matter how smart or special we may think we are, have the answer to what happened to Lyric and Elizabeth. There are no named suspects. We don't know for sure where they were abducted. We don't even know when they were abducted. All we know is they were riding their bikes, and now they are gone.

I hope that doesn't get lost in the one-upmanship that seems to be going on lately. JMO

 

[otto]

This is nothing but rumor, IMO.

Thank you. If there was an electronic trail leading to the missing girls, wouldn't we have heard about it?

 

[Marilynilpa]

Probably not, but people have been working on it over the summer.
http://wcfcourier.com/business/local/article_433e1ff7-a1f4-5529-8d3d-12b7e09cac3f.html

I think that may be an old link, the article is from 2011.

 

[katydid23]

Katy, I must have missed this! Is this "inside" information or was it reported in MSM? Has the man's name ever been mentioned?

Oh oh...I think it was supposed to be kept downstairs. I don't think we are allowed to discuss it here. I will delete...

 

[SapphireSteel]

If you read back, you asked for examples where children had been grabbed off bikes. In Jacob's case, the perp had no trouble gaining control over 3 kids, 2 of whom were on bikes.

But he only took ONE.

 

[hambirg]

This article relates to "attempted" abductions - one would assume they failed.

Further, it specifically states the child was ALONE.

Also, it doesn't state where the circumstances the attempted bike abductions took place - I can easily imagine a Mickey Shunick attempt where a vehicle is used to knock a child down, but that is not what has occurred here so to my mind, apples and oranges.

TWO children (ie. not alone) on bikes, OFF ROAD (no vehicle able to drive up behind/alongside them)...that is the type of abduction scenario I'm referring to. I don't believe an example exists.

This is a very peculiar abduction, no matter which way you look at it.

:cow:

Those numbers came from NAMUS and DOJ. The article is about prevention, but the statistics are from cases of actual abductions.

We don't know if a vehicle was used to "bump" the bikes. I don't think LE has released any info regarding that. AFIK it doesn't appear to be the case here though.

There is also some debate whether or not the abduction happened "off road". We have no indication yet where exactly the girls were abducted. I don't think we can rule out, at this point, that it happened near Brovan and anywhere en route to the lake. . .just too little info at this time.

It is interesting to me that, statistically speaking, an abduction of two on bikes is rare or maybe unheard of. What does that tell us? Possibly the girls weren't abducted from their bikes, but were separated from them somehow before the abduction?! :waitasec:

MOO

 

[RNER]

Thank you so much for posting this RNER. This is exactly what I keep worrying about in this particular case. I'm so sorry that your brother's living the scenario! I hope he doesn't regret making the phone call, and that it will be behind him soon.

Update after seeing your later post: here's hoping "next week" doesn't happen to him! Hopefully his name won't get out to media. I'd encourage him not to post anything about it on his Facebook either if he's an active FB user, at least not until it's been out in the news for awhile and he can post something like "prayers for the family" without it being obvious he was the witness who called it in. I am sure the emotional turmoil of what he witnessed is already going to be hard enough for him to deal with. I hope he's doing ok. It sounds like he may well have saved someone's life - you didn't say if s/he survived but if they transported the person to the hospital I'm hoping there's at least a chance of it.

The victim was flown by helicopter to large hospital, unsure of the condition. It has been on local television and newspapers, so far victim's name, circumstances, and my brother's name have not been released...we'll see what happens tomorrow when a scheduled "press conference" occurs with LE.