IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #18

[Jax49]

For those who've been following along for awhile sorry for the repeat info, but I'm still not sure on this either. I really do think someone riding a bike quickly on a fairly narrow trail could think of bikes leaning against a fence as being across the path. IIRC one of the earlier quotes that I'll try to find again said they were "neatly placed," as well as Elizabeth's purse being set down, indicating that there hadn't been any type of struggle. I could swear in one of the very first reports the bikes weren't right together on the path, but I have yet to find that again - story disappeared/changed, lack of Google skills, or bad memory - I'm not sure which!

BBM

Lets say MSM changed the story cause I don't like the other choices. Ninty percent of the quotes I look for are gone from the updated articles.

 

[Adair88]

Were there any people camping there that gave you the creeps?

There had been a few people on FB stating that there were a group of men hanging around the bathrooms in the days prior to the girls missing. The people on FB said their daughters were afraid to go to the bathroom because of these men. They were turned into the tip-line, I believe.

For me, there were some people camping in two tents beside our camper. We didn't see them until they woke us up around midnight the night of the 13th. My bf was watching them out of our bedroom window. He said they were tearing apart their bicycles and acting as if they were high on meth. They were very loud and he said they had a spotlight on to help them see what they were doing (they were outside at a picnic table right under our bedroom window doing this). I was in and out of sleep and told him to stop being a creeper. I don't know if he told them to quiet down or what exactly happened, but that was certainly different - not that uncommon in busy or full campgrounds though. The night of the 14th there was a loud party in a few tents about 100 yards away. I know a man in the camper in front of ours did tell them to shut up. FTR, police were there talking to the people in those tents on the morning of the 15th.

 

[nikb]

BBM

Lets say MSM changed the story cause I don't like the other choices. Ninty percent of the quotes I look for are gone from the updated articles.

I know, drives me crazy! I started taking screen shots. Unfortunately I missed this one somehow.

 

[nikb]

Here's the best link I could find related to the bikes and the early search days - still looking for the one about the bikes "leaning":

http://globegazette.com/news/iowa/e...cle_7dbadcc0-cfd1-11e1-b097-001a4bcf887a.html
A few things from the article, BBM:

Almost four full days of searching for the girls — at times with more than 1,100 emergency workers and volunteers — has turned up nothing. Because of the location of the bikes, he said law enforcement decided to eliminate all doubt the girls aren’t in the water.​

The search for Lyric and Elizabeth was scaled back considerably on Monday, but authorities and family members said that doesn’t mean their resolve to find the youngsters has diminished.​

(I don't remember seeing this before and I know it's logical, but it still made me sad)

As the group searched, a bicyclist stopped the officers to say he saw the two kids bikes on the trail at about 12:20 p.m., but no sign of the children.​

(IMO this means he contacted LE, rather than the speculation of LE contacting him).

 

[Sunlight]

Hmmm..

Posted by Adair88: "For me, there were some people camping in two tents beside our camper. We didn't see them until they woke us up around midnight the night of the 13th. My bf was watching them out of our bedroom window. He said they were tearing apart their bicycles and acting as if they were high on meth."

 

[Sunlight]

Maybe there were two sets of bikes that day.

 

[foxbluff]

Yes, I like to look at license plates! In particular, I saw a camper from Washington state that caught my interest, and wondered why this person would come to Iowa of all places! They had a satellite TV dish so my assumption was construction. A lot of the campers looked as if they had been there many weeks and there were quite a few in a row that had not been occupied for a few days (including Mr. Washington). I know that because a burn ban had been put into place here on July 8, and they still had the fliers rolled into their door handles on July 13. We had to drive through the park twice and then finally the camp hosts told us to camp in a place I had never been before and didn't even know the area had electricity hook-ups. Our 'neighbors' had also beenthere awhile by the looks of it. Makes me want to drive down there now and see if any of those campers are still there.

Welcome aboard, Adair88!!! Your posts are a goldmine of new info and clarifications of subjects we've discussed in the past.

Do you happen to know if local kids ever ride their bikes through the campgrounds?

 

[nikb]

Not saying that you don't have the right to be offended, but in reality it is just a word. I agree that you "search" for something that is missing and you "hunt" for prey, but we all use the phrases "Easter Egg Hunt" and "Scavenger Hunt" and no one questions the choice of words. I think we are all just sensitive because it is two innocent girls we are talking about.

You're right, and that's very true. Sorry for the over-sensitivity.

Also saw a later post from a mod regarding this topic and wanted to apologize to the other posters if I went too off topic on the language thing and upset or offended anyone. I didn't mean to insult anyone and I find the regional differences really interesting. Obviously that has nothing to do with getting Elizabeth and Lyric home, though.

 

[Snowbunny]

Adair88, thank you for you insight. I was asking a few days ago if there was a campground in the area. Had there been any strange things that had happened in town during that time frame prior to the girls going missing?

 

[Snowbunny]

Adair88, did you by chance notice any campers leaving the campground in mid afternoon or early evening on the 13th? I should clarify myself here, what I mean leaving the campground I mean taking their camper or camping gear with them.

 

[Sailorsgirl]

You're right, and that's very true. Sorry for the over-sensitivity.

Also saw a later post from a mod regarding this topic and wanted to apologize to the other posters if I went too off topic on the language thing and upset or offended anyone. I didn't mean to insult anyone and I find the regional differences really interesting. Obviously that has nothing to do with getting Elizabeth and Lyric home, though.

I don't think the mod was upset regarding what you said, as you weren't attacking or questioning another poster's words, but a newspaper's.

Also, the word "hunt" has more ooomph than "search." It seems more urgent and more aggressive.

Back on topic, Adair88 ... awesome posts! It's great to get some new and fresh perspectives on this case from someone who was in the area!

 

[CN2Souls]

Maybe there were two sets of bikes that day.

We use to some times ride two people on one bike when we were young, it is easy to do especially if they are girls of young age.

 

[Snowbunny]

Adair88, did you see anyone in the campground who's clothing was extremely filthy other than from working construction. I'm talking about muddy or torn.

 

[Tucarra]

No worries, as long as I'm not going to get beaten up again for doing so.

Trying to walk a fine line here with TOS but here goes -

First of all you can totally disregard all paddleboats, puppies, fishing boys, horses, campers, Craigs Listers, online boyfriends, empty houses, second hand sightings.

The witnesses we know about are not involved apart from being honest citizens.

I believe the girls arrived home that day, shortly after 12, as expected. I believe they went back out again on a "mission" of some sort.

I believe they COULD have been to the lake earlier on this mission, were not successful, and had to go back a second time, and quickly!

I believe they were captured either right at or very near the lake. By a white van.

I believe TG saw the bikes when he said he did, (maybe about 12.23) and Mr C saw the girls at about 12.18 but has been told to be vague.

I believe they were then intercepted by someone they knew with a story, such as, gramma has taken ill, drop your bikes, quick lets get to the hospital.

I believe the girls may well have been still in the wooded area when Mr G biked past.

I believe there was an older male perp and a younger male perp.

I believe that IF the bikes were staged, it was done by the younger perp under instructions, who then left on foot therefore was not noticed.

IF they were staged, the younger perp went so far as to drag items of their clothing around the scene to confuse the scent, as he had been instructed.

I believe the girls were first taken to Elk Run Heights...perhaps a property, perhaps just a meet up with another perp/vehicle.

From there they were taken God knows where.

I believe the original plan was merely to hide them (motives I cannot discuss) but the main instigator has done a back flip and actually murdered them on the day...he had always planned it this way unbeknownst to his co-conspirators, some of whom had no clue this was part of his plan.

I believe the motive is not sexual but money, and/or another benefit, and I believe this part of the plan has worked out as hoped.

This was VERY well planned, and not random.
All my humble opinion and not intended to replace fact.

I could well do a 360 if other evidence comes to light but based on what we have, that is what I believe happened.

:cow:

Bolded by me.....the "for-profit, for-benefit' angle to this has been stuck in my mule-headed brain for a long time...FWIW

 

[Adair88]

Maybe there were two sets of bikes that day.

We did report those people to LE, btw.

I have a theory involving two sets of bikes. Ted G. said he saw two bikes in the middle of the path and he had to 'swerve to avoid hitting them' around 12:23pm (His own estimate). Two things here: he said he did not see the girls, and when the bikes were found, at least one was leaning against the fence. I have spoken to TG's daughter about the sighting, and her father TG indicated he did not move these bikes and left the trail going a different direction out of town. So, even riding at 20mph, it does not seem plausible that the girls could have gotten to that spot AND disappeared within 8 minutes. Also, no one has come forward publicly saying they saw the bikes or moved the girls' bikes after that time. But somehow the bikes were in a different location when Abben arrived.

So, what I think is this: the perp set out two bikes to purposely cover the trail to make a trap. He knew a nice person (or a child/children) would have to get off their bikes to move them or get around them. He also opened the gate to the lake jetty, knowing this might be interesting to children (it is usually locked but was not the day the girls vanished - not sure if that was in the news or just local knowledge).

So the girls were in town at 12:11ish and then rode their bikes one way or another to Meyer's Lake. Maybe they even rode past Mr. Carpenter's house! The girls approached the bikes blocking the path and did just as expected. They got off their bikes, maybe wanting to look around for the bike owners or they noticed the gate was open, and went through the gate to the rock jetty (as the bloodhounds indicated). Maybe they were playing on the rocks and Elizabeth set her purse down. Well then, the perp approached the girls and maybe asked them nicely if they could help him move his bikes, maybe told a story about his child being hurt and needing help, etc. or maybe he used a weapon,... but regardless, he got the girls to help him move the bikes that were in the middle of the path and took them into the woods (following bloodhound trail). At that point he took them into a vehicle waiting in the wooded area off Maiden Lane or Arbutus Ave.

We know the girls went willingly because Lyric had flip flops on. These would have fallen off first thing if she had been grabbed or if there had been a struggle. This theory takes into account all the witnesses and keeps in place the time line. It could be disproven if more details were to emerge (such as the direction of the bikes, other witnesses, and if TG did 100% actually see their bikes), but this seems the best to me, given what has been released, and without calling anyone a liar. :moo:

I don't think the paddleboat has anything to do with it, other than maybe a look out person? Not sure. But the LE asked my boyfriend if we had brought a canoe or kayak camping with us. Maybe they are just trying to verify another witness sighting or something to that extent.

 

[foxbluff]

Hmmm..

Posted by Adair88: "For me, there were some people camping in two tents beside our camper. We didn't see them until they woke us up around midnight the night of the 13th. My bf was watching them out of our bedroom window. He said they were tearing apart their bicycles and acting as if they were high on meth."

Yikes !!! We've spent so much time puzzling over the girls' bikes. I'm sure nobody has ever considered that the perps were riding bikes that day...I'm willing to consider just about anything at this point. If LE got to question all campers, I wonder if they heard about bikes being destroyed?!? Yikes...

 

[Adair88]

Adair88, did you by chance notice any campers leaving the campground in mid afternoon or early evening on the 13th? I should clarify myself here, what I mean leaving the campground I mean taking their camper or camping gear with them.

We did notice a camper that had left sometime in the early morning or noon on the 14th. That camper had been there for awhile it seemed, and it was gone when we came back to our camper around 3:30pm on the 14th. Again, not that strange to see someone leave on a Saturday afternoon, but we never saw the people in the camper - it was there and then gone. We got there around 6 or 7pm on the 13th and then I left at 7:30am on the 14th and did not return until 3:30pm. It was gone by that time.

 

[Elley Mae]

This is from the first thread, first post
http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ev...cle_18411a90-cd32-11e1-a656-0019bb2963f4.html

“We have their bicycles, and we have a purse. That’s all that we have, and that doesn’t tell me that they’ve been there, just that those items were there,” Abben said.

 

[dotr]

We use to some times ride two people on one bike when we were young, it is easy to do especially if they are girls of young age.

Glad you said that, as I had wondered looking at that grainy cctv video, if 2 people were riding on one of the bikes.
One of my neighbours regularly whizzes by (to and from school) with his 8/9 yr old daughter on his bike, although initially it looks as if he is riding by himself.Makes me nervous.

 

[Snowbunny]

Adair88, did your bf see what kind or color of bikes these characters parked next to you were tearing apart? Now that could be interesting to know. Also did you see what type of vehicle they were driving and their license plate?