IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #18

[TxLady2]

You know what bothers me about Abben's comment?
He said there was no reason to suspect foul play.......
that was IMO his first mistake.
Little 8 and 10 year old girls don't just go missing!
Did Abben's attitude impede the investigation?
Was precious search time lost?
:moo:

True. But that statement was followed by "everyone is suspect until we find something." Which leads me to think he meant no signs of a struggle, like blood, so no signs that they were hit, stabbed, or shot in that spot. Some LE consider foul play to be signs that someone was hurt... others may think grabbing a child is foul play. IDK. I do think since he used the word suspect that he didn't mean to imply something didn't happen.. just that they were not hurt right there.
Does that make sense?

 

[brighidin]

You said what I have thought. I know that Lyric was older but I am sure she has seen and heard a whole different life. The white van, the dreaded white van. Back in the day (beltway sniper) they were looking for a white van, if you actually look around the next time your out driving count the white vans. They are everywhere. But... It is my opinion that the girls did get a ride to the lake, only it was to drop of the bikes. It could have been a white van. jmo

Lyric wasn't that much older. In any case, she lived with the Collins family for several years so I can't imagine her life was *that* much different.

 

[StacyMarie83]

Sadly, I agree. Not sure about family involvement, but their lifestyle allows creepy people to be attracted to them.

I agree they have passed and I hope I am wrong, but ANY lifestyle allows creepy people!! Look at the church :-/ They are unavoidable, unfortunately and repeated offenders (or even first caught offenders) are let out to be free among us very easily....quite sickening and sad!

 

[otto]

Lyric wasn't that much older. In any case, she lived with the Collins family for several years so I can't imagine her life was *that* much different.

Lyric lived with her grandmother at the time of the abduction. I don't recall that she ever lived at the Collin's home. Elizabeth was almost 9 years of age when abducted, Lyric was 10.

 

[otto]

According to TB, E played and biked with the neighbor's kids, including going to the lake. MOO

Wasn't it said that Elizabeth went to the lake once with the neighborhood children?

 

[otto]

In that same article, TB "an aunt to both girls, said all the signs were pointing to a stranger — possibility a pedophile — abducting them from the area near the lake where their bikes were found." MOO

The family would be speculating, wouldn't they? The grandmother speculated that the girls were grabbed somewhere between home and the lake.

 

[TealMermaid]

Sadly, I agree. Not sure about family involvement, but their lifestyle allows creepy people to be attracted to them.

That's so true! I tend to think someone known to the family took them. In the Meth Community there are a lot of unsavory people!

Keep praying they are found alive, but this case seems cold to me. So sad!

 

[iamnotagolem]

Sadly, I agree. Not sure about family involvement, but their lifestyle allows creepy people to be attracted to them.

I should have clarified, I don't think the family was involved and I do not believe it is drug related. JMO

 

[Marilynilpa]

Wasn't it said that Elizabeth went to the lake once with the neighborhood children?

Yes, TB said this, but not at first. It was a few days later, IIRC, that TB mentioned Elizabeth going to the lake with neighborhood kids.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Lyric lived with her grandmother at the time of the abduction. I don't recall that she ever lived at the Collin's home. Elizabeth was almost 9 years of age when abducted, Lyric was 10.

I don't have a link to this, but I believe Lyric did live with the Collins family for quite some time. I'll look for the link.

 

[Gracelin]

I have asked for and submitted a poll.. We so need one for this thread..

 

[otto]

Yes, TB said this, but not at first. It was a few days later, IIRC, that TB mentioned Elizabeth going to the lake with neighborhood kids.

My understanding was that it happened once. Based on that, I wouldn't assume that Elizabeth would normally ride to the lake or that she would attempt to ride there on her own and show Lyric how to get there.

 

[otto]

I don't have a link to this, but I believe Lyric did live with the Collins family for quite some time. I'll look for the link.

Jim Spellman (CNN Reporter):

"Q-Did his daughter have unrestricted access to the computer at his home?

Lyric was living with grandma…but to the computer question I don’t know."

Post #727
IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #3 - Page 30 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[CHERIE.T]

Abben was a spokesperson. He wasn't a lead investigator on the girl's case obviously by his statements made live and on the news. What's the lead investigators name Moss? The local detective in charge at one point?

Thanks Dr. Know? for the information.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Respectfully, I interpreted Chief Deputy Rick Abben's comment quite differently.

I think he was speaking in the literal sense: they had not yet found any evidence of foul play, such as blood, bullet casings or any other forensic evidence.

Since he followed that statement up by saying everyone was a suspect, I believe that indicates he was speaking in terms of a crime rather than in terms of thinking the girls' disappearance was the result of an accident.

So far as I can see, no search time was lost. LE was prompt and quite thorough.

Oh yes I'm sure you disagree, laugh. That's why I always add moo or imo.
(BTW-It's normal to defend local LE.)
On Topic----
The girls went missing 7-8 weeks ago on Friday the 13th.
The cops wasted days draining that lake. :moo:
Those are facts.

Logically kids don't just go poof during the day while riding bikes to a lake...or where ever they were really headed.
Someone saw something,
Someone aint talkin.
7-8 weeks is a long dam time.
:moo:

 

[CHERIE.T]

I personally think they were both killed before the police were contacted.

iamnotagolem, I was afraid to say that-thanks for doing so. I concur.

 

[CHERIE.T]

True. But that statement was followed by "everyone is suspect until we find something." Which leads me to think he meant no signs of a struggle, like blood, so no signs that they were hit, stabbed, or shot in that spot. Some LE consider foul play to be signs that someone was hurt... others may think grabbing a child is foul play. IDK. I do think since he used the word suspect that he didn't mean to imply something didn't happen.. just that they were not hurt right there.
Does that make sense?

Yes TxLady2, that makes perfect sense.
Thanks for the reply.

 

[Tucarra]

Gotta ask at this point, what's the members theories? Do you think the girls are alive or dead?

Gotta preface this by saying I've been known to be the 'eternal optimist' type....however....

I think it's a huge possibility they are alive...IF you assume there was some for-profit / for-benefit motive.....which, for whatever reason, has resonated with me since Day One of looking at this case...

Dunno who, dunno why....but just the feeling I get based on the circumstances as reported...

Irregardless (or regardless, for those who prefer the 'correct' dictionary version)....hoping for the best, and something to 'break'....

Now, that's where I may have a bad feeling...some pervy pedo ring or something....

Sheesh...

 

[iamnotagolem]

Do you mean they were grabbed and perhaps raped and killed.
Or, that they were killed for some other reason?
Or, that they were killed before it was reported? How and by whom
Or that they had an accident and it was covered up?

Why?
What makes you believe that?

Just asking. I know you probably can't answer that.

MOO

I know this wasn't directed at me, but my opinion only...

The girls were last seen at 12:15, I personally think they were abducted within about 5 minutes of that sighting and were probably killed between 1-1:30.

The police were notified between 2-3, IIRC and the bikes were located at 3:58.

My only basis for my theory is opinion and instincts. It's just what I think, I do not have any information outside of MSM.

 

[otto]

Oh yes I'm sure you disagree, laugh. That's why I always add moo or imo.
(BTW-It's normal to defend local LE.)
On Topic----
The girls went missing 7-8 weeks ago on Friday the 13th.
The cops wasted days draining that lake. :moo:
Those are facts.

Logically kids don't just go poof during the day while riding bikes to a lake...or where ever they were really headed.
Someone saw something,
Someone aint talkin.
7-8 weeks is a long dam time.
:moo:

<BBM>

How could it be a waste of time to check if the girls had drowned? Two bikes and a purse were found next to the shore. Even though the lake was leech infested and not a swimming lake, the facts that the bikes and purse were found there means that they could have disappeared into the water. That possibility absolutely had to be ruled out.

At the same time, land searches were done by volunteers, and investigators were trying to wrap their heads around the various possibilities. One by one, options were eliminated until the only possible explanation for the disappearance was abduction. If police had immediately assumed that it was an abduction, people would be complaining that they hadn't properly excluded the possibility of a drowning.

Children do "go poof" at lakes all the time ... they drown. The fact that the bikes and purse were at the lake when they were abducted suggests that the perp had a huge, potentially premeditated, advantage at the start. Everything was perfectly staged to suggest a drowning. How can investigators be criticized for investigating every possible angle, including the obvious: drowning?