IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #19

[TxLady2]

Could they arrest someone if they got a match for DNA on the coffee cup? If they have a suspect, and his DNA matches the DNA from the cup, yes, they could arrest him on suspicion, or at the least take him in for questioning and hope he confesses. But they have to find some proof to connect him to the abduction, to make that arrest stick.

Hope that helps.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Does anyone think if LE tested the cup and had an id that an arrest would be made by now?

Not without some other evidence.

I suppose they could charge the person whose fingerprints or DNA were found on the cup with littering but I'm not sure that would do any good except to guarantee the person would lawyer up ASAP.

Since the cup was found in a public place, the person who discarded it may have had a perfectly innocent reason for being there.

 

[Marilynilpa]

You've probably all seen this article, in fact it may have been posted previously.

http://now.msn.com/13-year-old-girl-drives-700-miles-to-meet-boy-she-met-on-xbox

"Puppy love, an Xbox and good ol’ teen angst led to a 13-year-old’s wild multi-state joyride. Elizabeth Annette Robinson, a 13-year-old from Cypress, Texas, freaked out when her parents told her to stop talking to a 12-year-old boy in Kentucky she met via Xbox. Elizabeth took off in brother’s car Wednesday night and was stopped Thursday night outside of Nashville (a 700-mile journey), when a state trooper pulled her over after matching the car to an Amber Alert."

Did Lyric and/or Elizabeth play games on X-Box or any other system where they could "meet" people online? They're pretty common in most households, it seems. I didn't even know you could connect with people online via these systems!

I'm not of that generation! I'm more Atari:blushing:

 

[Sunlight]

You've probably all seen this article, in fact it may have been posted previously.

http://now.msn.com/13-year-old-girl-drives-700-miles-to-meet-boy-she-met-on-xbox

"Puppy love, an Xbox and good ol’ teen angst led to a 13-year-old’s wild multi-state joyride. Elizabeth Annette Robinson, a 13-year-old from Cypress, Texas, freaked out when her parents told her to stop talking to a 12-year-old boy in Kentucky she met via Xbox. Elizabeth took off in brother’s car Wednesday night and was stopped Thursday night outside of Nashville (a 700-mile journey), when a state trooper pulled her over after matching the car to an Amber Alert."

Did Lyric and/or Elizabeth play games on X-Box or any other system where they could "meet" people online? They're pretty common in most households, it seems. I didn't even know you could connect with people online via these systems!

I'm not of that generation! I'm more Atari:blushing:

GMA Vicki says in her video interview that Lyric did play some kind of online game(s). What it was, I have no idea. Elizabeth could play games on her cell phone, but it was not internet connected I don't believe. Perhaps they had access at home. MOO

 

[TxLady2]

Maybe. What do you think those black things with antennae are in the officer's hands?

I have no idea. Looks like some kind of remote controls, or possibly walkie-talkies? It could be anything. But I would bet that they didn't spend more than one day walking around picking up things that could be evidence in the area surrounding where the bikes were found, so there would be no need to use high tech equipment to secure the area any longer than that, IMO. And they weren't acting like it was such a big deal. Cops usually try to conceal possible evidence, they don't hold it out in view of cameras.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Nope. I don't think they will make an arrest, if they ever do id someone, until they have enough conclusive evidence that the person would most likely be convicted. I do think they will watch someone though. They need a lot more evidence than something from a coffee cup, but it could point toward someone perhaps.

Yes, I suppose it could point towards someone.
Im getting antsy. I pray the girls are found and brought home
and an arrest is made soon.:moo:

 

[CHERIE.T]

Not without some other evidence.

I suppose they could charge the person whose fingerprints or DNA were found on the cup with littering but I'm not sure that would do any good except to guarantee the person would lawyer up ASAP.

Since the cup was found in a public place, the person who discarded it may have had a perfectly innocent reason for being there.

I was thinking (wishing) the cup was found near the bikes.
I suppose that wouldn't mean much either.

 

[Sunlight]

I was thinking (wishing) the cup was found near the bikes.
I suppose that wouldn't mean much either.

It was found near enough to be taken as evidence apparently, so..of course, it means something, if they can get a lead from it or if it can place someone they have other evidence on at that location based on prints or DNA or both; or perhaps they have video of someone making the purchase of it along with other information. All depends. MOO

 

[LaylaD]

I have, and I do know photography (and editing) pretty well. This blue labeled cup, hands down, is the one in the photo being held and collected by LE. While in that LE photo the cup may appear "striped" vertically, that is merely the way it reflects in the light. It also tells me that this cup hadn't been lying where they found it all that long. Especially, once again, as it had rained (according to locals there) most of the night and up until about 11am on Friday, the 13th. Found in such a remote area, as well, intrigues me.

I think we're pretty much in agreement that the cup in the photo is from either Kwik Star (Iowa) or Kwik Trip (MN or WI). I'm indulging in a late evening of decaf as I type this - 24 ounces of Karuba coffee in the bronze cup w/ blue label!! Surprisingly, the cup is striped vertically- it gives the illusion of the light shining on it even when not. I asked, and the same cups are used in all of the stores regardless of which state they are in.

 

[Considering]

According to the captions under the photos of the coffee cup, LE picked it up on July 17, four days after the girls disappeared and after LE began draining Meyer's Lake. Since the scene was not secured right away, the cup could have been left there by someone after the girls went missing.

 

[otto]

BBM

There were many ways in which Gary Ridgway didn't fit the profile. The FBI sure doesn't go around pointing out their failures, which are spectacular!

They've also had some spectacular successes but profiling has inherent limitations which they have not yet figured out how to get around.

A prosecutor emailed this link to me after attending an FBI criminal profiling seminar ...

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/11/12/071112fa_fact_gladwell

 

[otto]

Does anyone think if LE tested the cup and had an id that an arrest would be made by now?

Not at all. DNA on a cup near the lake proves that someone drank from the cup and it was found at the lake ... might have blown there. It wouldn't connect anyone to the missing girls, but it may give investigators a reason to have a look at the person that drank from the cup.

 

[RNER]

Maybe. What do you think those black things with antennae are in the officer's hands?

I believe these are antennae or equipment for the cameras or boats they were using to look under the water after it was drained. I recall them being discussed somewhere.

 

[Marilynilpa]

A prosecutor emailed this link to me after attending an FBI criminal profiling seminar ...

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/11/12/071112fa_fact_gladwell

What an excellent link, thanks so much for sharing it!

 

[CHERIE.T]

Not at all. DNA on a cup near the lake proves that someone drank from the cup and it was found at the lake ... might have blown there. It wouldn't connect anyone to the missing girls, but it may give investigators a reason to have a look at the person that drank from the cup.

Thanks Otto.

 

[CHERIE.T]

A prosecutor emailed this link to me after attending an FBI criminal profiling seminar ...

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/11/12/071112fa_fact_gladwell

An excellent read.Thank you for sharing that with us.

 

[Bootsctr]

If I lived in Evansdale or Waterloo or Cedar Rapids or anywhere nearby, I would be very worried about the safety of my children. I got one thing from LE's six key points and that was that somewhere out there is an "Regular Joe" that people know as a good neighbor, a decent guy, a nice fellow - just like you and me. "Regular Joe" wouldn't do anything like this - he volunteered to help you put your kids' swingset together, he loaned your neighbor a lawnmower when his broke, he helps out at the food bank, he even fixed the car of the widow down the street and didn't charge her a dime! No, it couldn't be Regular Joe. He has a job and hobbies. He's just like you and me. Except Regular Joe is wearing a mask. A really good mask. Maybe after talking with Regular Joe one day, you thought you had caught a glimpse of a mask, but then you remembered that Regular Joe is just like you and me - a good neighbor, a decent guy, a nice fellow. He's just an ordinary man, Regular Joe. He's your neighbor.

I would be very worried about the safety of my children too! Watched a special on Biography about the Atlanta Child Murders. It really piqued my interest and I ended up going to the TruTV website. There is really some interesting information regarding that investigation.... and very sad and tragic too. In regards to the six points that were released regarding Elizabeth's and Lyric's disappearance, this paragraph stuck out like a red flag to me:

The killer must have been very expert in gaining the confidence of these young victims. Successful serial killers become very expert at defusing any concerns that a potential victim may have. Pedophiles have made the control of young people into an art form. Whoever it was that was responsible for the deaths of these young people had to move and live and earn a living among them.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/williams/40.html

 

[Bootsctr]

"Chet Dettlinger is a former assistant to the Atlanta Chief of Police. He and a group of other high-ranking ex-law-enforcement officers independently investigated the case. Dettlinger, now a Georgia attorney, was asked by Williams' defense lawyer, Al Binder, to act as a consultant, and he co-authored, The List, the only book to be published on the case. Dettlinger goes on to pinpoint the central errors in the prosecution's probability analysis as:

#4. They chose to narrow their analysis to a statistical area that doesn't exist — the southeast. They also failed to allow for the possibility that the killer or killers lived elsewhere and traveled regularly to the area.

Dettlinger mapped out the precise location of where the victims had lived, where they had disappeared and where they had been found. By doing this he discovered that the victims were connected to Memorial Drive and eleven other major streets centered in that immediate area. Dettlinger had also recognized that the murders moved in an eastwardly direction." http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/williams/20.html

To me, this reads like the DCI is covering all the bases in the six points.

 

[peeples]

I am scared....I live in Cedar Falls.
I used to think my kids were "safe" in pairs (the 11 and 9 yr olds). This case in particular has proven otherwise. My kids go no where now, not to the park at the hospital, not to the library...I'm too scared about them being grabbed or lured.

 

[Bootsctr]

There are a few other things that stood out in the Atlanta Child Murders article:

1. "According to Detlinger, police learned of a child ring that was operating right across the street from the South Bend Park pool."
2. Wayne Williams had once been arrested for impersonating an officer (apparently he was quite convincing - had the vehicle with the lights).
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/williams/9.html

From the Biography show, when the police finally brought in a profiler they were shocked and in disbelief when the profiler said the perp would be a young black male.

Otto, thank you for your link regarding the profiler. It was fascinating!

Thanks to everyone for the pics regarding the cup. Very interesting!