IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #20

[Snufamonbobball]

Mass hysteria, anyone? A man spoke to two girls and it makes the paper.

http://whotv.com/2012/09/20/stranger-danger-afton-police-seeking-man/

Police are asking for the public’s help to identify a stranger who confronted two girls in Afton Wednesday afternoon.

Is it mass hysteria that people lock their doors as well? I get what point you're trying to make, but seriously I would rather have every strange person who stops and talks to children they don't know on playgrounds reported- if I was to approach stranger children on a playground and say HA HA HA What do we have here, I hope they would run as fast as they could! If you want to leave your child alone to fend for themselves, whatever, but I would hope for your child's sake that you would tell them to RUN LIKE H*LL.
This is of course MOO, just as you clearly have yours.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I am just trying to figure out how all these children just seem to disappear and we can't get them back. I told my husband if I ever hit the lottery I am quitting my job and I will devote all my time on the active parts of looking for missing children. That is my goal!

Hey, we have the same goal!

 

[Jax49]

Is it mass hysteria that people lock their doors as well? I get what point you're trying to make, but seriously I would rather have every strange person who stops and talks to children they don't know on playgrounds reported- if I was to approach stranger children on a playground and say HA HA HA What do we have here, I hope they would run as fast as they could! If you want to leave your child alone to fend for themselves, whatever, but I would hope for your child's sake that you would tell them to RUN LIKE H*LL.
This is of course MOO, just as you clearly have yours.

I don't disagree with your point of view. My post was poorly worded. I meant it more as a question, not a statement. Thanks for responding.

 

[Snufamonbobball]

I don't disagree with your point of view. My post was poorly worded. I meant it more as a question, not a statement. Thanks for responding.

I think for awhile there was mass hysteria about white vans, but strangers approaching children on playgrounds is always worth a second look for LE and the community. This was also witnessed by adults who intervened, and so to me this was a story worth reporting on.

The white van thing was far too vague and did cause pretty much an absolute panic all around Iowa. I wish they would have released those six key points way sooner than 8 weeks later, they might have been able to lock down a vehicle that had been sold or painted or something, when it was fresh in everyone's minds.

 

[cluciano63]

Is it mass hysteria that people lock their doors as well? I get what point you're trying to make, but seriously I would rather have every strange person who stops and talks to children they don't know on playgrounds reported- if I was to approach stranger children on a playground and say HA HA HA What do we have here, I hope they would run as fast as they could! If you want to leave your child alone to fend for themselves, whatever, but I would hope for your child's sake that you would tell them to RUN LIKE H*LL.
This is of course MOO, just as you clearly have yours.

If an adult says hello to a child...they should "run like hell"?

 

[Snufamonbobball]

If an adult says hello to a child...they should "run like hell"?

No, if they say Ha ha ha what do we have here, they should run. Not just hello.

 

[Marilynilpa]

No, if they say Ha ha ha what do we have here, they should run. Not just hello.

I have tried very hard to impress that upon my elderly father. He has always been a big joker, and loves to joke around with kids. This was a tremendous source of embarrassment to me when I was a kid, let me tell you.

Anyway, I keep telling him not to ever talk to a child without the child's parent or other caretaker being present. I keep telling him don't ever give candy to little kids. I nag at him to quit making smiley faces trying to get crying kids to smile. And I think I've finally gotten through to him. No more talking to little kids, no more handing out pieces of chewing gum to kids, no more trying to cajole a smile out of a crying kid. I've done this out of an abundance of caution. I don't want my dad's face plastered on t.v. being accused of trying to molest or entice a little kid. So he's listened.

And it makes me very sad when I shop with him now.

The world is tough for friendly old guys like my dad.

 

[Jax49]

I have tried very hard to impress that upon my elderly father. He has always been a big joker, and loves to joke around with kids. This was a tremendous source of embarrassment to me when I was a kid, let me tell you.

Anyway, I keep telling him not to ever talk to a child without the child's parent or other caretaker being present. I keep telling him don't ever give candy to little kids. I nag at him to quit making smiley faces trying to get crying kids to smile. And I think I've finally gotten through to him. No more talking to little kids, no more handing out pieces of chewing gum to kids, no more trying to cajole a smile out of a crying kid. I've done this out an abundance of caution. I don't want my dad's face plastered on t.v. being accused of trying to molest or entice a little kid. So he's listened.

And it makes me very sad when I shop with him now.

The world is tough for friendly old guys like my dad.

Such a shame our world has come to this. MOO

 

[GrainneDhu]

Interesting your idea about the lake, can LE be 100% sure they are not in the lake, I presume being a small body of water in the warm weather bodies would rise? The 'locked in something' you mention is interesting, I keep thinking someone may have taken them and have them locked in something like an old bomb shelter or root cellar, a basement room, or a secluded house. Is there anything, I wonder, like an old homesite near the lake, maybe from when the highway was built, and the girls went exploring and fell in an old cellar or became trapped somehow. That thought crossed my mind a few weeks ago when I was back in my hometown and saw the rubble of a friend`s cute little home sitting behind a stripmall. Put that in a less busy area where kids go.... Are there remains of old homes and buildings near the lake, along secluded and treed Maiden Lane maybe, and were they searched. I don`t know if a person can tell from above what is under a canopy of trees, I was shocked at how Graceland looks from the air.

I think that LE is sure that the girls' bodies were not in the lake when the FBI team got done with their side scan sonar and dive team. LE was fairly sure even before they drained the lake due to the dragging and diving. I have a friend who has a water dog who deployed and Meyer's Lake was one of the places they checked.

If the girls are found in Meyer's Lake, I am positive their bodies were placed there after the FBI dive team left. Which would be fiendishly clever in one way but extremely difficult to pull off in real life.

As for house ruins, I don't know if there are any in Evansdale. Are there any locals who could chime in?

 

[GrainneDhu]

I think that if you, or anyone else for that matter, have read up on the Penn State scandal with Jerry Sandusksy, you may change your opinion about wealthy people's sick perversions.

I've been reading about the Jerry Sandusky scandal since Sara Ganim broke the story for the Patriot-News.

Jerry Sandusky did many evil things. I do not see, however, any reports that he paid for children to be abducted for him nor that he facilitated the abduction of children for other people.

I don't deny that human trafficking exists. I do deny that it is a new problem; it is a problem that has existed in this country in one form or another since before we became a country. It was a beautiful dream but put into place by corrupt people, so it shouldn't be too surprising that it is falling to corruption. <sigh>

I've been following the problems with prostitution in the US since the early 1970s. The problem is nothing new, what is new is the LE attitude about it. It took a shift in paradigm, from seeing underage hookers as victims rather than criminals that made the difference.

 

[Snowbunny]

This was taken off the WS Human Trafficking Awareness Thread

Human Trafficking Awareness Thread
The time has come to open this thread. My hope is that more people are reading to discuss the reality of the horror that children are being "sold" to become slaves - not only in other countries - but our country as well.

To start, here is a snip of Marc Klaas' website:

It is estimated that 14,500&#8211;17,500 individuals are trafficked into the U.S. each year. However, these numbers pale by comparison to the U.S. citizen victims of Human Sex Trafficking.

* Between 1.6 and 2.8 million children run away annually in the U.S., half of which are girls.
* Within 48 hours of hitting the streets, one third of these children are lured or recruited into the underground world of prostitution or .
* The average age at which girls first become victims of prostitution is 12-14.
* For boys, the entry age is 11-13.
* Approximately 55% of street girls engage in formal prostitution.
* Of the girls engaged in formal prostitution, 75% work for a pimp.
* It is estimated that as many as 300,000 American children are working as prostitutes in the U.S.A.
* Many of these children are missing: many have run away or are throwaway children.

We have learned that the U.S.A. is as much a supply country as it is a demand country for human trafficking. In fact, we are supplying much of our own demand. President George W. Bush has committed the United States Government to lead in combating the serious 21st century challenge of Human Trafficking. The best way to lead is always by example. The best example that the U.S.A. can present to its own citizens and the world at large is to acknowledge the extent that human sex trafficking has affected our own society, and then repair the damage. We must seek legislative solutions and change society&#8217;s perception. We must impact the victim&#8217;s mindset as we rescue and recover them. Finally, we must identify and criminalize the traffickers.

http://www.klaaskids.org/pg-ht-report.htm

//I shared with all of you all a few links earlier in this thread in hopes to open your eyes that this does happen in the United States and Iowa is no exception. They just busted a ring in Iowa/Kansas/Nebraska which I posted links to, so for those of you who want to close your eyes to that fact and believe that it cannot happen in Iowa please go back and read those articles I posted. It can and has happened more than one wants to believe. Its a sad sad state of affairs. There is thousands of kids that go missing every year that are never ever found but something has happened to these kids.//

 

[Snowbunny]

Here's another post to the same thread on WS:

Innocence Lost National Initiative

In the five years since its inception, the Initiative has resulted in the development of 34 dedicated task forces and working groups throughout the U.S. involving federal, state and local law enforcement agencies working in tandem with U.S. Attorney's Offices.

Statistics (as of October 2009)
Founded: June 2003
Children Recovered: 886
Seizures: Over $3 million
Convictions: 510
Task Forces & Working Groups: 34



To date, these groups have worked successfully to rescue nearly 900 children. Investigations have successfully led to the conviction of more than 500 pimps, madams, and their associates who exploit children through prostitution. These convictions have resulted in lengthy sentences including multiple 25-year-to-life sentences and the seizure of real property, vehicles, and monetary assets.

http://www.fbi.gov/innolost/innolost.htm

 

[Dr. Know?]

My family went to school with Bob Hamer. My sisters knew him better than I did. Once I read this book, I had no doubt about the child sex trade. He was on Oprah too about 5 or so years ago. I admire him a lot as the subject is hard to think about for many let alone it be your job & duty for that many years. I'm not leaning towards this btw with Lyric & Elizabeth but it's a subject to discuss. His journey was with NAMBLA.

Search for Last Undercover: The True Story of an FBI Agent's Dangerous Dance with Evil

 

[Marilynilpa]

I appreciate the links that have been provided regarding human trafficking. But please direct me to the article that states there are people who abduct children in this country in order to ship them to wealthy people worldwide. So far, I have not seen it.

I know there is human trafficking, as I have stated over and over. My problem is with earlier comments suggesting there is an organized group/groups in this country existing for the sole purpose of abducting American children to be sold to wealthy individuals around the world, and that these people could be responsible for missing children in the U.S.

If someone can provide me with a link to a reputable MSM source or government report that conclusively states that children in this country are being abducted by people specifically for the purpose of selling them to wealthy individuals worldwide, then I'll believe it. But a link to an article talking about runaway kids being forced into prostitution, while horrific, does nothing to convince me that an organized group of people are stealing our children off the streets in broad daylight and selling them to rich people. I hope people can see the distinction I am making here.

Which is why I cannot accept the idea that Lyric and Elizabeth were taken for that purpose.

 

[Snowbunny]

But please direct me to the section that states there are people who abduct children in this country in order to ship them to wealthy people worldwide.

I know there is human trafficking, as I have stated over and over. My problem is with earlier comments that there is an industry that exists for the purpose of abducting children to be sold to wealthy individuals, and that this industry could be responsible for missing children in this country.

I don't see anything in all of the links that have been posted here to support such a statement.

If someone can provide me with a link to a reputable MSM source or government report that conclusively states that children in this country are being abducted by people specifically for the purpose of selling them to wealthy individuals worldwide, then I'll believe it. But a link to an article talking about runaway kids being forced into prostitution, while horrific, does nothing to convince me that an organized group of people are stealing our children off the streets in broad daylight and selling them to rich people. I hope people can see the distinction I am making here.

Which is why I cannot accept the idea that Lyric and Elizabeth were taken for that purpose.

Where did the discussion come from that kids were being abducted in this country and shipped to other countries start? I believe we have enough sickos in this country that they don't need to be shipping them out of the country. That would be pretty difficult to do, but I can't say it hasn't happened.

 

[Dr. Know?]

I see what you are saying Marilynilpa but honestly don't know. It's a concern though to me. People are hurting from the recession, internet makes it easier, children have been sold for sex by parents, people have killed their children because they can't handle anything anymore due to drugs, mental conditions etc... & even one put their child's body in a rubbermaid tub in the water to be found in TX a while back. It's a new ballgame possibly with children in the US. We don't know where so many have ended up. They haven't been found. I'm open to anything whether there's an MSM or gov document. jmo

 

[Marilynilpa]

Where did the discussion come from that kids were being abducted in this country and shipped to other countries start? I believe we have enough sickos in this country that they don't need to be shipping them out of the country. That would be pretty difficult to do, but I can't say it hasn't happened.

I believe it began many posts ago when comments were made that children in this country were being abducted by groups of people for the purpose of selling them to rich folks around the world.

The topic was human trafficking, and there were a few of us who questioned whether this "selling abducted US kids to wealthy people worldwide" was factual. That resulted in numerous links being posted on here about human trafficking, none of which made any reference to American children being abducted solely for the purpose of selling them to rich people.

And I agree with you, it would be pretty difficult to do in this country. I can see it taking place elsewhere, but to get a child out of the U.S. and into another country without a passport or other documentation makes it a highly unlikely proposition, IMO.

Lyric and Elizabeth could have been kidnapped by a pedophile, or put into the sex trade, or any other number of horrible things, but I simply don't see them being taken specifically for the purpose of being sold to some wealthy person. I've seen nothing to support the contention that this is going on in the U.S. JMO.

 

[Snowbunny]

There have been 17 or 18 kids that have gone missing in Iowa in this area since April of this year and no one knows what happened to them. I consider that to be a lot of kids for a small community to just disappear without a trace. I know they consider several of them to be runaways but are they? I believe they just found a couple of them when they busted the human trafficking case in Chicago. I have no doubt whatsoever that LE is all over that but my little brain says something is wrong with this picture. I live in SD and in a bigger city than WaterLou Iowa, but we don't have any kids unaccounted for that I don't know about. Thank God they caught the last idiot that tried to abduct some school kids here which was recent. That sicko is in jail. I know that kids disappear all over the country, but 17-18 kids in one area in that short of time frame is a bit much to swallow.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I see what you are saying Marilynilpa but honestly don't know. It's a concern though to me. People are hurting from the recession, internet makes it easier, children have been sold for sex by parents, people have killed their children because they can't handle anything anymore due to drugs, mental conditions etc... & even one put their child's body in a rubbermaid tub in the water to be found in TX a while back. It's a new ballgame possibly with children in the US. We don't know where so many have ended up. They haven't been found. I'm open to anything whether there's an MSM or gov document. jmo

I don't dispute in the least that people, including parents, do horrible things to their children. Heck, we see stories about that here on WS every day, as well as in the media.

But IMO, to suggest that kids in our country are being kidnapped off our streets specifically to be sold to rich people around the world sounds like nothing more than an urban legend. It's a story that has been around a long time, passed around and discussed as though it is fact, told and retold, but unsupported by anything I have seen so far.

Sure, just because there is nothing on the internet to support the "kidnapping U.S. children specifically for sale to rich people" claim doesn't mean it isn't true. However, if something of this magnitude really existed in the U.S., believe me, I'm certain it would be on the internet and in MSM, and discussed on all of the daily gab-fests on t.v. JMO.

It is unfathomable where all of these missing children are. Some of them are probably runaways. Others are taken by pedophiles for their sick purposes. There are probably a lot of sick reasons for why children go missing. But an organized group of people isn't traveling the U.S., abducting children with the sole intention of selling them to rich people around the world. I just don't see any evidence to support that. JMHO.

 

[Snowbunny]

I like what LE is doing here. They put it out there in the media for everybody to see that they are going to continue to run sex stings in here using the internet. The last go around which was just a couple of weeks ago they busted 8 sickos.