IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #20

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  • #381
Hmm...that is very curious. Off the top of my head only two possible explanations come to mind. #1 - perhaps one turned state's evidence or #2 - perhaps one was an undercover officer! (:

Hm...just jumping off that idea...we know that there has been "narcing" already around our girls.

Undercover operations could mean using other narcs.

It seems too much of a coincidence to me that the girls went the day before Dan was supposed to be in court to accept the plea deal.

Perhaps the girls are somehow secondary victims to something far, far bigger.
 
  • #382
Hm...just jumping off that idea...we know that there has been "narcing" already around our girls.

Undercover operations could mean using other narcs.

It seems too much of a coincidence to me that the girls went the day before Dan was supposed to be in court to accept the plea deal.

Perhaps the girls are somehow secondary victims to something far, far bigger.

Maybe they witnessed or overheard something or someone that had to do with this case?
 
  • #383
Lost my internet connection for 6 days & see i have missed a great deal of posts. Wow i dont know when i will catch up with the case.....working working working.

i did get an email back stating they would give my information to the Case Agent;

Also got a phone call (message) friday from the DCI and will be returning the call to them next week. I dont know whether its concerning the girls, the RSO, or both.

At least i know they are taking all tips seriously.

Prayers for the girls!

Off to work i go.....

Artzy

Wow, Artzy...thanks so much for taking the time from a busy work schedule to update our forum!

I well remember the info you shared with us and am very relieved that you contacted the proper authorities. I'm not at all surprised that they contacted you!

It would be super great if you could come back and report on next week's telephone call to DCI. I, for one, would love to know how that goes!
 
  • #384
Hm...just jumping off that idea...we know that there has been "narcing" already around our girls.

Undercover operations could mean using other narcs.

It seems too much of a coincidence to me that the girls went the day before Dan was supposed to be in court to accept the plea deal.

Perhaps the girls are somehow secondary victims to something far, far bigger.

I am SO in agreement with this idea, SappireSteel. To me, it is illogical NOT to consider the possibility that the girls' abduction, and Dan's delayed trip to prison are connected. The coincidence is hard for me to overlook when trying to figure out what has happened to Lyric and Elizabeth.

Wouldn't it be a hoot if Dan and Misty were undercover agents? That would explain a perceived (by some) lack of "appropriate" emotional responses, for one thing. And how better to throw off suspicion by faking public intoxication, faking an attempted suicide and subsequent trip to the hospital.:what::what:

I could never understand why someone would take the girls just to get back at Dan for a plea deal. But if someone was getting back at him because he's involved in a widespread undercover investigation, well, that makes a little more sense to me.

I'm going to go back and finish reading the other posts to see what everyone else has to say about this.

ETA: I've noticed that my second paragraph, which I intended to be tongue-in-cheek, seems to have been taken literally. Please note - don't take it literally!
 
  • #385
It does seem as though meth = riskier to kids than the actual users.
 
  • #386
It does seem as though meth = riskier to kids than the actual users.

BOTH can be deadly. People who are strung out on meth can be very violent and impulsive and twisted.
 
  • #387
I am SO in agreement with this idea, SappireSteel. To me, it is illogical NOT to consider the possibility that the girls' abduction, and Dan's delayed trip to prison are connected. The coincidence is hard for me to overlook when trying to figure out what has happened to Lyric and Elizabeth.

Wouldn't it be a hoot if Dan and Misty were undercover agents? That would explain a perceived (by some) lack of "appropriate" emotional responses, for one thing. And how better to throw off suspicion by faking public intoxication, faking an attempted suicide and subsequent trip to the hospital.:what::what:

I could never understand why someone would take the girls just to get back at Dan for a plea deal. But if someone was getting back at him because he's involved in a widespread undercover investigation, well, that makes a little more sense to me.

I'm going to go back and finish reading the other posts to see what everyone else has to say about this.

Undercover agents have criminal records and drug histories...?
 
  • #388
I am SO in agreement with this idea, SappireSteel. To me, it is illogical NOT to consider the possibility that the girls' abduction, and Dan's delayed trip to prison are connected. The coincidence is hard for me to overlook when trying to figure out what has happened to Lyric and Elizabeth.

Wouldn't it be a hoot if Dan and Misty were undercover agents? That would explain a perceived (by some) lack of "appropriate" emotional responses, for one thing. And how better to throw off suspicion by faking public intoxication, faking an attempted suicide and subsequent trip to the hospital.:what::what:

I could never understand why someone would take the girls just to get back at Dan for a plea deal. But if someone was getting back at him because he's involved in a widespread undercover investigation, well, that makes a little more sense to me.

I'm going to go back and finish reading the other posts to see what everyone else has to say about this.

OK, so that's some imagination there...hope you're onto something....
 
  • #389
OK, so that's some imagination there...hope you're onto something....

Actually, my comments about Dan and Misty being undercover cops were intended to be tongue-in-cheek, sorry it didn't come off that way.:blushing:
 
  • #390
Actually, my comments about Dan and Misty being undercover cops were intended to be tongue-in-cheek, sorry it didn't come off that way.:blushing:

Errm....think it came across OK...maybe my response didn't come across as 'tongue-in-cheek' as it ought to have...:blushing:

But I remain a firm believer that there are no such thing as "coincidences"...strictly statistically speaking....
 
  • #391
Errm....think it came across OK...maybe my response didn't come across as 'tongue-in-cheek' as it ought to have...:blushing:

But I remain a firm believer that there are no such thing as "coincidences"...strictly statistically speaking....

BBM

Especially in this case - I don't believe the abduction of Lyric and Elizabeth is separate from Dan's drug-related problems. IMO there has to be a connection somewhere.
 
  • #392
If I could get past the turned down plea deal, a sister-in-law who said he wasn't ready to go to prison yet & turned it down & two parents out of prison/jail in May, I might be able to move on. Can't discuss much past that point.

All is quoted in either MSM links or public records.
 
  • #393
If I could get past the turned down plea deal, a sister-in-law who said he wasn't ready to go to prison yet & turned it down & two parents out of prison/jail in May, I might be able to move on. Can't discuss much past that point.

All is quoted in either MSM links or public records.

:floorlaugh:

It really is hard to get past those pesky little details, isn't it??
 
  • #394
I really need to proof read my heartfelt posts somedays...oh well you get the point. thxs.
 
  • #395
What do you mean by undercover investigation?

Cops/FBI agents in street clothes, cops/FBI agents disguised as maintenance workers or delivery truck drivers?

It sounds as if a fair amount of investigation, such as watching surveillance tapes, is going on behind closed doors and in the DCI lab.

What am I missing? What do you mean by undercover?

But in any case, I so don't want to hear that their bodies have been found in a cornfield or deep in the woods.

The girls have been missing 9 weeks. LE very likely watched the CCTV tapes within days of the girls disappearance. Fwiw, Undercover is pretty self explanatory. The chances of the girls being found alive sadly is slim.
:moo:
 
  • #396
I can't think of any reason why Elizabeth's abduction would be related to meth or Lyric's father. Clearly, if Lyric was the target, no one had to wait until she was visiting her cousin, or to abduct her cousin as well. Perhaps those that believe the abduction of Elizabeth was related to meth could elaborate.
 
  • #397
Otto, I couldn't agree with you more, the thanks button wasn't enough.
 
  • #398
I can't think of any reason why Elizabeth's abduction would be related to meth or Lyric's father. Clearly, if Lyric was the target, no one had to wait until she was visiting her cousin, or to abduct her cousin as well. Perhaps those that believe the abduction of Elizabeth was related to meth could elaborate.

The only reason I could see for Elizabeth's disappearance to be related to the meth trade is if the perp were aiming at Lyric and Elizabeth happened to be there.

That seems so unlikely to me, though. For one thing, if one or both of Lyric's parents were considered a danger by someone in the meth trade, the person they endangered would simply have killed them (Lyric's parent/s). Abducting or killing Lyric would just draw more LE attention to the drug trade rather than less.

One creepy thought I've been having lately is wondering if either Elizabeth or Lyric was being molested by someone outside the family, someone none of the adults in either family would ever suspect. That person arranged with the girl he was molesting to meet at Meyer's Lake and didn't expect both girls to show up. In this theory, the girl he was molesting had become wary, maybe even afraid of this person but he still held power over her. So she went to the meeting as arranged but asked her cousin to come with her, figuring that nothing bad would happen in front of a witness.

What makes me think that this theory is less likely is the level of planning that would have gone into such a meeting. Most of the time, perps who kill their child victims do so on the spur of the moment out of fear. For such a perp to arrange a meeting, etc, would mean risking his victim would tell an adult before the meeting.

The main problem I have with any theory connecting some adult member of the families to the perp is that the perp had to then successfully buffalo LE. I'm sure that all the adults in the family (and all the children) have been asked if they know anyone who might abduct the girls, anyone who had a reason to be angry with them, anyone who gave them a strange feeling, etc.

Anyone LE questioned had to cover up a sizable hole in their day on 13 July.
 
  • #399
The only reason I could see for Elizabeth's disappearance to be related to the meth trade is if the perp were aiming at Lyric and Elizabeth happened to be there.

That seems so unlikely to me, though. For one thing, if one or both of Lyric's parents were considered a danger by someone in the meth trade, the person they endangered would simply have killed them (Lyric's parent/s). Abducting or killing Lyric would just draw more LE attention to the drug trade rather than less.

One creepy thought I've been having lately is wondering if either Elizabeth or Lyric was being molested by someone outside the family, someone none of the adults in either family would ever suspect. That person arranged with the girl he was molesting to meet at Meyer's Lake and didn't expect both girls to show up. In this theory, the girl he was molesting had become wary, maybe even afraid of this person but he still held power over her. So she went to the meeting as arranged but asked her cousin to come with her, figuring that nothing bad would happen in front of a witness.

What makes me think that this theory is less likely is the level of planning that would have gone into such a meeting. Most of the time, perps who kill their child victims do so on the spur of the moment out of fear. For such a perp to arrange a meeting, etc, would mean risking his victim would tell an adult before the meeting.

The main problem I have with any theory connecting some adult member of the families to the perp is that the perp had to then successfully buffalo LE. I'm sure that all the adults in the family (and all the children) have been asked if they know anyone who might abduct the girls, anyone who had a reason to be angry with them, anyone who gave them a strange feeling, etc.

Anyone LE questioned had to cover up a sizable hole in their day on 13 July.

Theories about Lyric being abducted due to Lyric's parents' drug use seem to completely exclude the fact that Elizabeth was also kidnapped (she has no connection to drugs) and that this happened close to Elizabeth's home.

Each time I see the discussion gravitate towards more or less blaming the parent's drug use for the abduction of the children, I am reminded of Victoria Stafford. The same thing happened in that case. Social media looked at the case, looked at the mother's oxycontin addiction, and immediately concluded that Victoria was abducted because of a drug deal. For months, that was the theory that dominated discussions. Victoria's mothers' drug use had nothing to do with the abduction and murder of her daughter, and I'm pretty sure that drugs had nothing to do with the abduction of Elizabeth.

I don't disagree that there must have been some prior contact between the girls and the perp. I don't believe that the girls happened to stop at a secluded part of the trail and a perp just happened to be there. Perhaps they talked with someone at the strip mall, perhaps they were offered a boat ride if they rode their bikes to the lake, perhaps once they arrived at the corner of Elmer and Gilbert, they were told to ride their bikes to the gate to meet up for a boat ride. Perhaps they were told to walk to a nearby vehicle to get life jackets or something like that. Something lured them to the location where their bikes were found.
 
  • #400
Looking at the Evansdale Strip Mall, we see a lot of vacant space. I wonder if any of the vacant space was under construction - whether any new businesses are moving in. Could someone have regularly been at the site and had a casual conversation with the girls? Other than the shop on the corner (separate building) where alcohol is sold, would any of the other businesses have attracted someone fairly regularly during that day when Elizabeth was riding her bike around the loop?

evansdalestripmalllarge_zpsd0d14053.jpg
 
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