IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #22

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  • #461
Exactly. Because if they could really be identified just by looking at them they would have gotten a pastor or close friend to come in and ID the children or even one of the children's parents. Sadly parents have had to ID their children's bodies before.

LE said there was no need to do that and imo the reason it wasnt necessary was because their clothing/shoes/headbands etc had remained in tact enough to be identifiable as belonging to them.

IMO

Yes, and the hair. Hair does not decompose like flesh does. Hair will stay intact with the skull for a very long time.
Not to mention the fact that no two other girls went missing at the same time from that area.
As for COD, it depends on what the ME finds. They will probably be able to tell an approximate date of death, within a few weeks.
 
  • #462
I agree Grainne but JVM already put horrible thoughts in my mind. I want to take everthing posted that was said on her show with a grain of salt but can't shake it just yet. I can't imagine a family hearing that stuff. If this was put out just because it showed two sheets on the ground and assumed the girls bodies were not intact & Abben said "bodies" not remains, I'll be pretty po'd as that's stretching it too far. Good gosh.

(I did swear I'd never believe anything on HLN again from NG or JVM so I better remember that, huh?)
 
  • #463
Not to be gruesome but it all depends.

All of Iowa is mixed coyote/fox territory. If the local territory is held by fox, then I wouldn't expect the bodies to be scattered and maybe not even subject at all to animal scavenging.

My sense, just from looking at the photos, is that it is more likely to be fox territory than coyote territory. Coyote prefer more open areas and they particularly prefer places with a lot of human presence (we're so generous about feeding them). Fox prefer areas with heavier cover and not so much human presence.

The two species do coincide over most terrain and the balance of their territories tends to go back and forth. For instance, I had a lovely coyote queen living in my backyard for 6 years before she disappeared (I think she probably died; she was a grand age for a coyote). I expected one of her offspring to take up the territory but a fine red fox has moved in instead. I know where there are at least two vixens close by, so this spring, maybe cubs.

I think there's a 50/50 chance that the bodies would have been subject to heavy animal scavenging.

I love your posts. Very interesting!
 
  • #464
Could someone refresh my mind please? How far away was this from Jessica Ridgeway?
 
  • #465
I think the photos from earlier today showing LE searching the harvested corn fields, road sides and ditches, they are looking for bullet casings and the murder scene.

Or pop cans or cigarette butts or anything else the killer may have flicked out the window without thinking.

Hopefully some item bearing DNA that matches DNA found on something near Meyer's Lake.
 
  • #466
Is it possible the family wasn't asked to identify them because they were taken to Ankeny? That's a 2 hour drive from Evandale, and it seems cruel to make families drive 4 hours (altogether) to identify remains.

Samantha Runnion's grandmother identified her. Her body was found a day after she went missing so it wasn't decomposed, and they could probably easily tell it was her.
 
  • #467
  • #468
688 miles.


Thanks I'm so geographically challenged!!! For some reason I thought it was a lot closer. Soon I'm gonna need a map to get home from town. :waitasec:
 
  • #469
I don't think LE would use "bodies" instead of "remains" to be sensitive to the family. When I think about sensitivity, I think more in terms of sexual assault. In the Samantha Runnion case, all that was said in the media was that she was sexually assaulted. I don't even think "raped" was ever used. But I read trial transcripts and the affidavits that went into more detail, and it was disgusting.
 
  • #470
I'd check white pages, do a reverse address check and you might get the whole area of residents.

Here's a group of RSO's from Indiana that some of you might remember. This little girl was killed by a man who lived with RSO's but wasn't one or hadn't been caught. Michael Plumadore. LWOP. Aliahna Lemmon, RIP. The area Haleigh Cummings went missing from had something like 50 or more in a 5 mile radius? Some landlords rent to groups of them and some are actually funded to give them a place to live. (I say give them some remote island...)

snipped

But 15 others living in just two dozen homes in the mobile home park Plumadore shared with the Lemmon family are on the registry.

http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/local/marion_county/are-mobile-homes-haven-for-offenders
 
  • #471
:welcome5:

Thank youu so much for clarification on how densely wooded and how much underbrush would have been present during the summer months.

We are so blessed to receive so many local perspectives on cases like this here at websleuths.

You "sound" like you're feeling bettah, 'cox -- hope so. Your head must be empty now...



icon10.gif
 
  • #472
bbm

O/T - Wow, Marilynilpa -- My 98-year-old grandmother was also buried in a pink casket, pink being her favorite color, too. It was beautiful and made us all feel good for her. (How 'bout that?!)

That's quite a coincidence! I know we all felt good that my grandma was surrounded by her favorite color.
 
  • #473
I would initially think the bodies washed up there... except for the fact that they were found north of the last sighting. Not knowing which way this stream flowed -- how do we know if they were placed there or washed up there?

Hasn't been any flooding in that area in 2-3 years. There is no way the bodies could get to where those white sheets are photographed due to flooding.
 
  • #474
The sheets were placed there probably to keep the media from putting out pictures of two decomposing bodies. That would be horrible for the families to have those kinds of pictures plastered on t.v. or in the papers. I'm sure there were reporters and cameras trying to get closer, but those pics were probably shot with a telescoping lens. I can't imagine them allowing them to get very close, they won't normally let them stomp around at a crime scene, because they're gathering evidence. Who knows? Somebody could find something that could identify the perp. A cigarette butt, an empty coke can, a handkerchief, maybe a discarded shirt.
 
  • #475
Is it possible the family wasn't asked to identify them because they were taken to Ankeny? That's a 2 hour drive from Evandale, and it seems cruel to make families drive 4 hours (altogether) to identify remains.

Samantha Runnion's grandmother identified her. Her body was found a day after she went missing so it wasn't decomposed, and they could probably easily tell it was her.

BBM

I think if the bodies were in a condition to be readily identified, the families would have been given photos to look at. JMO. Since it seems the girls were identified by clothing, that is what was most recognizable. Again, JMO.
 
  • #476
The sheets were placed there probably to keep the media from putting out pictures of two decomposing bodies. That would be horrible for the families to have those kinds of pictures plastered on t.v. or in the papers. I'm sure there were reporters and cameras trying to get closer, but those pics were probably shot with a telescoping lens. I can't imagine them allowing them to get very close, they won't normally let them stomp around at a crime scene, because they're gathering evidence. Who knows? Somebody could find something that could identify the perp. A cigarette butt, an empty coke can, a handkerchief, maybe a discarded shirt.

That brings me back to a question I had earlier. If the photo with the two sheets was taken today, then the sheets can't be covering the bodies because the bodies were removed on Thursday. So what are they covering?

ETA: Oops, I meant the bodies were removed Wednesday, not Thursday.
 
  • #477
So deeply saddened. Have followed the thread from the beginning and appreciate all of your posts.
 
  • #478
For one I'd think the sheets are covering where the girls bodies were found. Two, to preserve the insects (dead or alive) & vegetation also dead or alive to determine a TOD. jmo

The ME did come back to the site today along with others.
 
  • #479
Mostly I agree with your post but I do not think they were kidnapped. IMO these girls were gone from grandma longer than she claimed. Being a rural child myself I know how kids left out on their own tend to explore. IMO these girls will have on their original clothing. I tend to doubt they were taken by anyone. I think they drowned and then were washed to the spot they were found.

I agree with you that kids often do a lot more exploring than their caretakers know about. I know I sure did!

Respectfully, there is surveillance videotape that places the girls within feet of the Collins house within minutes of when Grandma Cook said she last saw them, so I think Grandma Cook did keep track of where they were. She certainly became alarmed and went out looking for them quite soon after the last time she spotted them.

Also, there is no direct route by water from where the bicycles were found by Meyer's Lake and where their bodies were found. The Wapsipinicon is about 20 miles from the Collins residence and I find it very difficult to believe that two young girls walked all the way there without anyone noticing them anywhere along the way.

I just cannot come up with any scenario that makes sense to me that does not involve some degree of criminal behaviour on the part of at least one adult with a vehicle.
 
  • #480
That brings me back to a question I had earlier. If the photo with the two sheets was taken today, then the sheets can't be covering the bodies because the bodies were removed on Thursday. So what are they covering?

I would think to preserve the evidence from where the bodies were lying. I believe it started raining either last night or this morning.
 
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