IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #22

[Eileen730]

O/T but I have lived in the South my whole life and can attest to the fact that indeed, kudzu was fashioned by the fiery cloven hooves of Satan himself. That stuff WILL NOT DIE.

Just another example of why introducing invasive, non-indigenous species is a baaaad idea! Like water hyacinth, Japanese beetles and privet. Yipes!

OT but speaking of Kudza this was interesting.
The Harvard Medical School is studying kudzu as a possible way to treat alcoholic cravings, by turning an extracted compound from the herb into a medical drug.[8] The mechanism for this is not yet established, but it may have to do with both alcohol metabolism and the reward circuits in the brain.

Kudzu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

also
It has also shown potential in animal models of Alzheimer's disease.[14][unreliable medical source?]

It may help diabetes and cardiovascular disease

 

[LisaB]

Would it have been easier to get the bodies to that spot via the lake or via the road? I know, it's just opinions, but I'm curious what others think.

1. If they were taken by boat (assuming a small, open craft like canoe or rowboat) they would have had to have been concealed. They'd have been visible to any OTHER boaters otherwise, and the perp(s) could not have known that he would not encounter anyone along the way (unless the dump occurred at night)

2. If the perp(s) had them in a boat, wouldn't it have made more sense to just dump them in the water?

I am thinking car, then ATV.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

^^^^That. I would have thought the FBI would have had their forensic anthropology or cadaver experts out there. I was kind of surprised to hear the ME was returning. To me, that may show there were scattered remains. ??? How often does ME return to the crime scene...anyone know?

I have no doubt an anthropologist will be assisting in the autopsy like they did in Caylee Anthony's case.

The ME can return to collect bug insects where the remains were that may assist him with the TOD.

They can also return if they are looking for small bones and will tell the searchers which bones they should be looking for.

Among other things.

IMO

 

[LisaB]

:what: BBM. Wow, visually identifiable. This gets stranger and stranger.

Considering the hot, dry summer... the remains could have mummified to some extent, and been recognizable by teeth/dental work/orthodonture, and clothing and accessories. If such things as nailpolish (suggested earlier) was a factor, they could not have been kept alive for long. If it was just the clothing and jewelry, they could have been wearing them all along, OR could have been wearing other things while in captivity, and given their own things back to wear "home." If they thought they were going home, they might not have put up a fuss about getting into the vehicle the day they were disposed of, even if they were alive at that time.

 

[LisaB]

I was surprised that the families were called to the station so they could receive the info that the bodies had been found. How were they expected to drive home after receiving such devastating news?

On tv shows the police always come to the door at their home. I know, it's tv, but does anyone know how it normally happens in the real world?

If they were needed to ID the bodies, they would have had to go in, but I'd think an officer would come to deliver the news and offer transportation to the location where LE was holding the remains.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

1. If they were taken by boat (assuming a small, open craft like canoe or rowboat) they would have had to have been concealed. They'd have been visible to any OTHER boaters otherwise, and the perp(s) could not have known that he would not encounter anyone along the way (unless the dump occurred at night)

2. If the perp(s) had them in a boat, wouldn't it have made more sense to just dump them in the water?

I am thinking car, then ATV.

We really dont know why kilers like this choose the places they do. Only they know. Maybe he thought they could be found in the water if they rose to the top since it was so hot when they went missing. Or he could be like many of the sickos that does things like this and wanted them on the ground where he could return to where they were from time to time. He had much more control of them on land than he would have had in water where even weighted down bodies have risen to the top, imo.

IMO

 

[Just Pat 22]

I set up a photobucket account for posting images.

What I do when my Computer gives me trouble follow a list Restore , Unplug . reinstal program Donno hope it helps . Remember the folks way back at Meyers leke they said their boat was stolen and the brought back > The WasipiOpinicon hope I spelled it right . Just throwing rice in the air Is there the slighest chance that a skilled canoo river man could coured the river from, Evansdale to 7 Bridges ? Two sisters two I child each left by Legeand River strange . It will get figured out and the will get the perps that took these two beautiful souls to look after and warn children now and keep a closer watch on them. RIP LIZZIE & LYRIC

 

[oceanblueeyes]

If they were needed to ID the bodies, they would have had to go in, but I'd think an officer would come to deliver the news and offer transportation to the location where LE was holding the remains.

LE said the family didnt have to view the remains.

He said there was no reason for them to do that. I believe they found clothing/shoes/headbands/jewelry etc. at the scene and took them to the parents to be ID as belonging to the girls. That is why they still do not have a positve ID ..only a tentative ID.

Just jumping off your post Lisa...but this is still my theory.

I think someone saw two young girls alone with no one around. Pretty much the same setting that has happened when other children have been abducted. They seized on that opportunity just like others pedos have done in the past. They may or may not have taken one of the girls to be sure not to leave any witnesses behind and their main target may have been Elizabeth the younger child.

The perp may have murdered them both because it is so common that criminals nowadays leave no witnesses behind. Or they know them casually and knew both girls were pre-adolescents and both were targeted for sexual purpose.

IMO

 

[LisaB]

(snip)
It also seems odd that this could be the case since during the press conference, the guy said the parents have not seen the bodies "nor is there a reason to" (my paraphrase). I took that to mean the visual wold be of unidentifiable remains. Maybe I inferred too much.

Or there was no significant decomposition, and the girls were identifiable to LE without putting the parents through the trauma of seeing their dead babies.

 

[Jovi Girl]

LE said the family didnt have to view the remains.

He said there was no reason for them to do that. I believe they found clothing/shoes/headbands/jewelry etc. at the scene and took them to the parents to be ID as belonging to the girls. That is why they still do not have a positve ID ..only a tentative ID.

Just jumping off your post Lisa...but this is still my theory.

I think someone saw two young girls alone with no one around. Pretty much the same setting that has happened when other children have been abducted. They seized on that opportunity just like others pedos have done in the past. They may or may not have taken one of the girls to be sure not to leave any witnesses behind and their main target may have been Elizabeth the younger child.

The perp may have murdered them both because it is so common that criminals nowadays leave no witnesses behind. Or they know them casually and knew both girls were adolescents and both were targeted for sexual purpose.

IMO

I understand this, but need to point out, they were not adolescents. One was 8 years old, the other 10. they are children, babies still. I do understand that they could have still been targeted for the purposes you mention. This is just so very heartbreaking.

 

[LisaB]

They may never know COD if the bodies are skeletonized.

I am one that does not believe they were in good condition.

They said they do have leads they are following.

IMO

There may still be indications of what happened, even if only skeletal remains were found.

1. Nicks in rib bones indicative of the use of a blade

2. Severe damage to skull from bullet

3. Extreme head trauma from blunt force trauma

4. Broken hyoid bone, indicating strangulation

 

[not_my_kids]

Abben said investigators were leaning toward reclassifying the case as a homicide investigation, but would wait for information from the autopsies before proceeding. He declined to say whether the bodies were concealed, or how long investigators thought they had been there. Relatives have not gone to see the bodies and "there's no reason for them to do so," Abben said.

Read more: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/nation...onfident-bodies-are-two-cousins#ixzz2ENKS8n1U

 

[GrainneDhu]

We really dont know why kilers like this choose the places they do. Only they know. Maybe he thought they could be found in the water if they rose to the top since it was so hot when they went missing. Or he could be like many of the sickos that does things like this and wanted them on the ground where he could return to where they were from time to time. He had much more control of them on land than he would have had in water where even weighted down bodies have risen to the top, imo.

IMO

Additionally, the Wapsipinicon was so low last summer that even weighted, they would have been clearly visible on the surface. Depending on the exact spot, there may not even have been enough water to cover them.

 

[dadgum]

I sincerely hope LE has leads they are following, and that there will be justice (if we can call it that..) soon. Parents in the area must be worried this will be repeated. I feel if LE didn't have some info, someone in mind, they wouldn't be a tight-lipped. I hope this is so..

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I understand this, but need to point out, they were not adolescents. One was 8 years old, the other 10. they are children, babies still. I do understand that they could have still been targeted for the purposes you mention. This is just so very heartbreaking.

Oh goodness ..I needed another glass of Coke before I made that post Jovi.

I meant to say pre-adolescent. My bad.:blushing:

I will go back and edit my post. thanks for the correction.

 

[Joe Friday]

There may still be indications of what happened, even if only skeletal remains were found.

1. Nicks in rib bones indicative of the use of a blade

2. Severe damage to skull from bullet

3. Extreme head trauma from blunt force trauma

4. Broken hyoid bone, indicating strangulation

Bones that have been sawed in half could indicate dismemberment.

Also don't forget how the clothing could have been found on or near the body might indicate sexual assault.

Ligatures might indicate that the victim hands or feet were bound or possible strangulation.

JMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Abben said investigators were leaning toward reclassifying the case as a homicide investigation, but would wait for information from the autopsies before proceeding. He declined to say whether the bodies were concealed, or how long investigators thought they had been there. Relatives have not gone to see the bodies and "there's no reason for them to do so," Abben said.

Read more: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/nation...onfident-bodies-are-two-cousins#ixzz2ENKS8n1U

I think right now they know these children were murdered but of course they are going to wait on the ME to label it one.

That is why they have spent so much time at the disposal scene gathering evidence imo.

IMO

 

[ttcRider]

Being a local, it is IMPOSSIBLE that the girls had either wandered there OR drowned and bodies washed away there. They disappeared next to a lake. They were found by a river that flows downstream and does not flow by Evansdale at all. The river by Evansdale is the Cedar River, not the Wapsipinican.

Thank you.. I have been looking at maps and driving myself crazy trying to understand that theory.

 

[tlcya]

Additionally, the Wapsipinicon was so low last summer that even weighted, they would have been clearly visible on the surface. Depending on the exact spot, there may not even have been enough water to cover them.

My theory is that perp is someone local. Older, meaning not a teen or young twenties, male, familiar with general area, who perhaps used to party over at seven bridges as a youth and recalled how remote and overgrown it is, maybe even recalled the turnout nnear the riverbend. Back in the day, when he used to go there, the river was higher and faster in that spot.

Maybe perp intended to weigh the bodies down and put them in the river, but due to drought, perp discovered on arriving the water was too low for that to work. So he improvised.

 

[Fukiyama]

This is impossible. The Wapsi river, along which the girls were found, and the Cedar River, which Meyers Lake is connected to via a drain, are only connected indirectly via the Mississippi and Iowa Rivers. Also, rivers and streams in Iowa flow from north to south. So it would again be impossible for the girls to have drown and then floated north to where they were found.

Reposting because this continues to be an issue.