IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #22

[threecrazykids]

I agree. Now that the news is out about where the girls were located, only a few people I have talked to knew about that location. One person knew of it because she tubes down the river in the Summer and actually has used that exact spot where the road turns around to exit the river before hitting the dams downstream. That area is very popular for fishing but she said this Summer there was a lot of trash and at least one burnt out campfire when she was there.

Another person is older and said the location used to be very nice and kept up, but they downgraded it years ago and quit taking care of it. There used to be 7 bridges across the river there but flooding and lack of upkeep eliminated about half of them.

Yet another person (in his 30's) said he used to party out there with friends when he was in high school. He lived nearby and said it was quite the isolated party spot.

Everyone said the location is very isolated and a local from the towns of Readlyn, Denver, Fairbank, or Dunkerton would absolutely know about the area but maybe others would not unless they are into hunting, fishing, or tubing.

My husband went to Wapsi Valley and lived in Fairbank...when I told him where the girls were found he literally looked like he was going to throw up. He and his dad fished there all the time when he was little. When I showed him the pictures of where the girls were found he knew exactly where it is. He said that granted it was prob 20 years ago, but it really doesn't look THAT much different than when he was there. He said that from the turnabout where you see all the LE vehicles parked there is/was a beat down walking trail from the turnabout back to what some call the "beach area" as fishermen use that all the time. It really isn't a beach area...but on the curve to the left my husband and his dad would sit and throw fishing lines across to that brush pile...and THAT is still there!

He also said that you'd pretty much have to be a fishing/hunting person to be down there because that water has been that low for several years in that area...so it's not even the fact that we had record drought...it's been sandy along that shore for some time (his dad and brother have fished there within the last few years).

 

[Madeleine74]

A "crime scene" is any scene that is connected to a crime. It doesn't only mean the primary scene. There could be several crime scenes. Look at the Jessica Ridgeway case. There were at least 3 or 4 crime scenes.

 

[Confusion]

I don't think that "frozen" is the only explanation for the girls being easily identified after five months.

This is the only reference I have seen to "frozen":

"VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Rita Cosby, investigative journalist, I got chills when Jon just said that these bodies had been kept somewhere, and then when they were put there in this wildlife park, they were easily identifiable. I mean, it`s horrifying to think that they were kept in some -- it implies that they were possibly kept in some kind of refrigeration or something that preserved them."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1212/06/ijvm.01.html

I didn't say it was the only explanation, or even that I thought it was a likely one. I said that someone (and I thought it was a reporter) had said it was a possibility, and I was just saying what circumstances might have led to it IF that were the case.

Should we believe that some clothing was found in the area, as first reported by Jane Valez Mitchell, but not believe that the bodies were identifiable? Why accept only half of the information provided by the source? There is no other source for some clothing being found ... at least I haven't seen one.

I could be wrong, but I thought both Ollipop and the press conference mentioned clothes being found with them.

True.

But is a dump scene routinely called a "crime scene" by LE?

when they find a body say, in the town dump as so often happens, the dump is not usually referred to as a crime scene?

There are often 3 crime scenes in cases like this. The first is the abduction site, the second is the murder site and the third is the drop site. All it means is they're places the perp/s may have left evidence. MOO

 

[tlcya]

In the case of Jessica Ridgeway in CO recently the site where partial remains were found was called and treated as a crime scene. The perps home, where he told LE where to find additional remains, was also called and treated as a crime scene. Now Jessica obviously could not have been murdered in two places, so yes, a dump site would indeed be considered and called a crime scene by LE.

MOO

 

[tlcya]

I am just waiting to hear from LE, that's all. I don't think that the leap that the JVM show made about the idea that they were likely to have been refrigerated, is one that should be given any weight at this time. And again, JMO. I have trouble with any info coming directly from JVM or NG shows.

I feel as you do, sceptical about this info, however, while I won't give it enough weight to grow legs and run, I will consider it as a posibility.

 

[carbuff]

There are often 3 crime scenes in cases like this. The first is the abduction site, the second is the murder site and the third is the drop site. All it means is they're places the perp/s may have left evidence. MOO

Not to mention a site where the perp(s) waited for a victim, and intermediate sites where the perp(s) took the victim(s), and if weapons were used, there could be a site where the weapon was disposed of...on and on.

 

[Sere-nity]

does anyone know if photo information (e.g. time/place) can be found on photos posted on facebook?

 

[Copper]

does anyone know if photo information (e.g. time/place) can be found on photos posted on facebook?

Only if the information is given on FB or if the information is part of the image file. I don't know how to check the second one besides saving the image you're interested in and then looking at its properties.

 

[Mjskit]

I don't mean to be insensitive because I know just thinking about the deaths of the girls is extremely hard on a lot of people, so I apologize if I come across that way. It sounds like there was some decomposition, or they would most likely have just had the parents identify them. At the same time, it doesn't sound like they were entirely decomposed or they'd more likely have said remains rather than bodies.

It was considered (I believe by a reporter) that the bodies may have been frozen until recently, and brought there recently for some reason. I wonder if they had been kept in a large freezer normally used for venison, etc. They may not have been removed to make room for meat from hunting, but hunting season may have been a time to be in an out of the way place without looking suspicious. Perhaps the person who did it was out there early in the season, or even before the season with an ATV to "set up a blind" using materials which also covered the bodies on it in case he was seen. He could have brought the bodies out there, left, and actually hunted somewhere else. Or maybe not.

BBM Along the same (kind of) train of thought --- I keep reading how thick the brush is, so dense that a person could not see 5 feet away and if the hunters were five feet further away they would not have found the bodies. The bodies are 25 feet apart (approx.) The hunters stumble upon one body then search for a second body? Did LE search and find the second body? --- Could it be that the hunters who found the bodies are in fact the perps?

 

[nikb]

I just can't get this song out of my mind . . . .

"Seven Bridges Road"...By The Eagles - YouTube

You aren't alone. I've been thinking of this song since the moment I heard where they were found. Thanks for posting the video.

 

[B4igo2it]

I'm sickened by the horrible loss of these 2 beautiful young girls. I can only hope & pray justice is quick though it may be of little comfort.

Haven't had time to catch up on my reading this morning so apologies if this was already posted. This link was on my Facebook page today.

http://m.kwqc.com/default.aspx?pid=...piciously-around-children?clienttype=rssstory

The towns mentioned in this article are very small towns. We used to think of Iowa as such a safe place. Iowa is just like every place else. Terrible things can happen here too. We must find new & better ways to protect our children.

JMO

Thank you Mandy! Through the Internet/Facebook we are learning about more and more cases of our children being abducted. There is a group of sick individuals out there that are preying and hurting our children/families. You are right, "We must find new & better ways to protect our children."
Stranger/Danger is an awesome program, HLN is a good outreach, facebook is a great tool ... we can no longer live in denial. Remember the afterschool specials that used to be on TV? Bring them back and dump the "Who's my daddy and paternity test drama" that seems to run rampant in afternoon TV.
This is a very real situation here and we have to educate society on these evils amongst us. This problem continues to get worse.

O/T: My biggest fear in the world is becoming reality - Mom thinks her new boyfriend is interested in her ... this couldn't be further from the truth; he is using her to get close to her child. :furious: (this statement has nothing to do with Lyric/Elizabeth case - jmo)

 

[dadgum]

Thank you for joining in our discussions and trying to put the puzzle pieces together! We are a great group and even greater now that you have joined us! Every opinion is important; whether we all agree or agree to disagree

Thank you for the kind welcome, B4Igo2it! I have actually been here a while..lurking for several years. Many reasons..among them, you all seem to have most thoughts covered! It's a good place, so many intelligent, caring (and curious) people.

 

[tlcya]

I agree. Now that the news is out about where the girls were located, only a few people I have talked to knew about that location. One person knew of it because she tubes down the river in the Summer and actually has used that exact spot where the road turns around to exit the river before hitting the dams downstream. That area is very popular for fishing but she said this Summer there was a lot of trash and at least one burnt out campfire when she was there.

Another person is older and said the location used to be very nice and kept up, but they downgraded it years ago and quit taking care of it. There used to be 7 bridges across the river there but flooding and lack of upkeep eliminated about half of them.

Yet another person (in his 30's) said he used to party out there with friends when he was in high school. He lived nearby and said it was quite the isolated party spot.

Everyone said the location is very isolated and a local from the towns of Readlyn, Denver, Fairbank, or Dunkerton would absolutely know about the area but maybe others would not unless they are into hunting, fishing, or tubing.

This what ive heard too. Only locals really know about this park. Great spot for partiers. Not sure if peep intended for them to be found. By next spring they could have been decomposed and overgrown.

My husband went to Wapsi Valley and lived in Fairbank...when I told him where the girls were found he literally looked like he was going to throw up. He and his dad fished there all the time when he was little. When I showed him the pictures of where the girls were found he knew exactly where it is. He said that granted it was prob 20 years ago, but it really doesn't look THAT much different than when he was there. He said that from the turnabout where you see all the LE vehicles parked there is/was a beat down walking trail from the turnabout back to what some call the "beach area" as fishermen use that all the time. It really isn't a beach area...but on the curve to the left my husband and his dad would sit and throw fishing lines across to that brush pile...and THAT is still there!

He also said that you'd pretty much have to be a fishing/hunting person to be down there because that water has been that low for several years in that area...so it's not even the fact that we had record drought...it's been sandy along that shore for some time (his dad and brother have fished there within the last few years).

I cannot even tell you guys how helpful it is to have these local perspectives of this area. Thank you so much. Local Invovlement in these threads is KEY.

 

[roseofsharon]

IIRC, a young boy was fishing at Meyers Lake the day the girls were abducted and he was asked if he had seen the girls, but hopefully LE will now ask this boy if he remembers anyone else fishing at Meyers Lake that day.

I don't remember ... did LE or the FBI provide a criminal profile, at the time of the abduction.

 

[Adair88]

^^^ so that spot is the logical place a car would pull over, for someone to walk into the undergrowth to dump bodies?

Thanks heaps for the local knowledge, it helps so much!

I have never been there, but from talking to others who have, the area is composed of a few dead end roads off a very long gravel road. The area the girls were found would be a turn-around spot for vehicles.

 

[callyn]

[/B]

BBM Along the same (kind of) train of thought --- I keep reading how thick the brush is, so dense that a person could not see 5 feet away and if the hunters were five feet further away they would not have found the bodies. The bodies are 25 feet apart (approx.) The hunters stumble upon one body then search for a second body? Did LE search and find the second body? --- Could it be that the hunters who found the bodies are in fact the perps?

The foliage is thick during summer, not now.

 

[rachaellouise]

I can't imagine the guilt misty and Dan would feel if this was connected to their drug use or old acquaintances.. I hope this doesn't trigger them to use again.

 

[cluciano63]

IIRC, a young boy was fishing at Meyers Lake the day the girls were abducted and he was asked if he had seen the girls, but hopefully LE will now ask this boy if he remembers anyone else fishing at Meyers Lake that day.

I don't remember ... did LE or the FBI provide a criminal profile, at the time of the abduction.

Why wouldn't LE have interviewed the boy at the time? I hope they did.

 

[Copper]

Just to throw it out there, I doubt the hunters would be hunting side-by-side. I would think there would be some distance between. So if one found one of the girls, the hunters wouldn't need to really actively search for the other. The other hunter could be right on top of her already or come across her as he joins his comrade.

 

[tlcya]

[/B]

BBM Along the same (kind of) train of thought --- I keep reading how thick the brush is, so dense that a person could not see 5 feet away and if the hunters were five feet further away they would not have found the bodies. The bodies are 25 feet apart (approx.) The hunters stumble upon one body then search for a second body? Did LE search and find the second body? --- Could it be that the hunters who found the bodies are in fact the perps?

I picture it going down like this:

Hunters happen upon one body. Probably called LE via a cell phone. As they wait for LE they already suspect it is one of the girls. This case has bee very wel covered in the area. I can't imagine anyone within a hundred miles not knowing about the case. As they wait they hav probably been told not to touch anything and to gingerly move away from the body, noting where they are stepping so they can show LE ater and have their own trail/bootprints eliminated as potential evidence. As they do so, they are watchfull, mindfull there are two mising girls, as they move further away from body one, they discover body number two.