IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #22

[Dr. Know?]

About Lyric's father:

"He has come under intense scrutiny from law enforcement officials because of his ties to the region's methamphetamine trade, but authorities have said he is not considered a suspect."

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...-case-nears-homicide-classification?Frontpage

... clears that up

I'm not finding that quote in that article. Yikes!

 

[Marilynilpa]

I would tend to agree ... if we ignore the comments by Jane Mitchell, we are left with the understanding that they were abducted in Evansdale at noon and taken directly to that location. There is no other crime scene yet. The risk of getting caught must increase exponentially if the perp keeps the victims for any length of time. I would think that it would be better so avoid association with the abduction/murder by being available later on July 13 ... unless this is a secluded freak ... always a possibility ... but it would be a weirdo that should be noticed by the neighbors.

BBM

I agree - I think it was important to this perp to be back in Evansdale later that day to avoid possible suspicion. As I've stated before, I believe this person may have participated in searches, vigils, etc.

 

[hollyblue]

I wonder why the perp would place them a distance apart? I would think that would make them 2x more likely to be found. Putting them together, one would have to stumble upon the one site. Not have 2 sites to stumble upon. Weird.

It may just be that Lyric was heavier and they just didn't carry her as far. She was adult size at 145 lbs. Or as other's have mentioned, there may have been 2 perps and if this was the murder scene, just lead to different parts of the woods. IMO

 

[cindersoot]

I would have to agree. I suspect that he restrained and separated them ... then told each of them to let the other know that she was okay ... then killed them one after the other. He had to control them to the last minute to avoid getting caught. If he wanted to get caught, he would not have hidden the bodies. If he wanted to get caught, it would not have taken 5 months to find them ... by fluke.

Killed while standing in the place where they were found ... I highly doubt it.

I don't think they were killed there were the bodies were found, nope, not out in the open. He would of wanted his privacy and time.

 

[georger]

My random thoughts...

1. I believe 7 Bridges was a dump site that was scouted out by the perp.

2, The perp had plenty of time to find the perfect spot (and I think it was very familiar area for him). Harvest was completed 1 month ahead of schedule this year because of the drought. Most fields were harvested by mid-October at the latest. The number of farm workers would depend on the size of the equipment used and the size of the fields. (Each square mile of land is 640 acres.) (On average I'd estimate 3 workers per field....one in the combine, one in the chase cart, and one driving semi....this can certainly fluctuate by farmer). When I look at this photo

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...ion_12862912-cdd5-11e1-a9b3-0019bb2963f4.html

the first thing I notice is that the ground to the right of the road has tillage already done. Because of the amount of debris on top I think this was planted to corn this year. On the left side of the road I believe it was planted to soybeans because there is no tillage. I don't see any NH3 tracks in the bean field....nor do I see them in the corn field. Whoever farms this ground on both sides of the road may be waiting to make sure the ground temp is right before applying nh3.

3. Having a car from another county come down the road while harvesting isn't that unusual. Many hunters start a month ahead of time watching for deer/pheasant activity. Pheasant hunting started Oct 27 and it's lawful to hunt the ditches in Iowa....which many do. So to have people come down the road to the entrance of this park wouldn't be unusual....especially if they were known in the area to hunt. The farmer may think the person is checking for wildlife, when in reality the person was checking to see the pattern of people activity.

4. Temps just started to cool down, so 7 Bridges keg party activities may be starting to slow down (Wapsie Valley Jr & Sr High is 5 miles drive .... and I'm pretty sure the student body would use this as a party site. It's remote, but it's also a good place because if you get raided you've got plenty to hide behind, then walk home later).

5. Farmers are done with tillage, high schoolers are looking for warmer places to party, snow should be coming soon (like within the next 24 hrs) and that is why I think the drop happened within the last few weeks. MOO

Area hunters and the like will know this area well - several posting here
have already said their relative know the area, have been there many
times. I doubt much fishing there this year due to the drought, but still
some had to go there to check it out if its a regular place for some - the
weather was very warm late this year (here) which would affect the
decomposition time line ... still a very dry year with little rain here this
Fall. I am "sure" there are a number of people in that area who know this
area very well ... would know what looks out of place etc..

 

[tlcya]

OMG, it's so horrifying. TL, do you mean the bodies were concealed in another vehicle carrying the ATV and then the bodies placed on the back of the ATV. TIA

That is indeed my thinking. Usually, at least from what I have seen, ATVs are either transported by pickup truck or by trailer pulled by another vehicle (open traiier or closed box style trailer)

If the girls were already dead when taken there and ATVs used to get them back to the areas they were found, this was the riskiest part IMO. Moving the bodies from the vehicle to the ATVs.

If this was the case and the method of transport, they were either in the trunk, back of a van (not as likely IMO) a toolbox in the back of a truck or already strapped/secured to the back of the ATVs if an enclosed trailer was used.

I am just speculating of course, but it feels right to me.

How common is off roading and the use of ATVs in the area I wonder.

I also feel ATV is the most logical method of transport as the river is so very low lately and it is aneasy drive from road to body location if they travelled by river part of the distance.

 

[FruitTingles]

Sorry to butt in but I'm just wondering about everyone's thoughts on when we will get official confirmation that the bodies are the girls? I mean, I know we know but we have not yet heard from LE about this still? Or have I missed it? I hope not because after being away for a day it took me quite a while to catch up again!

 

[georger]

Yes, yes, yes! Harvest finished not too long ago. If there are corn fields along 270 (the rural road) which I believe there were; farmers may have noticed traffic.
Everyone knows everyone in these rural areas (they really do).

agree. And area residents might alsok now those who frequent the area
for hunting-fishing etc... will know vehicles theyve seen before or never
seen before ... I think the perp took a sizeable risk going there if he isnt
one of the locals whose been there before ... due to rural thefts these
days people really are alert as a general rule.

Thanks for your info - if anything else comes to mind be sure to post it!
People really need to stand together in this -

 

[cindersoot]

It would be nice if the perp left behind a token as in the Jessica Ridgeway case. ie, cross, or something to be used to identify the perp.

 

[otto]

With the autopsy done so quickly, doesn't that tell us that it was not skeletal or remains, but a body? Just wondering. Thoughts

Morgan Harrington was found about 3 months after she disappeared October 17 (found in tall grass in a remote location in Jan). DNA evidence was found. There was probably a lot more decomposition between July and December than October and January ... if they were identified by "some clothing", then I doubt there was much left of them. Austin Sigg put Jessica Ridgeway's clothing in her backpack and left it in a nice neighborhood ... this guy left the clothings on/with the victims. I suspect that the clothing are always the thing they forgot to consider in the big picture plan ... something that adds time to the murder.

The photography, Speers, that abducted the 11 year old and left her for the grizzlies assaulted her in his vehicel and then dumped her in a remote location. She was left alive, but she wouldn't have survived the night had she not been accidentally rescued.

 

[tlcya]

I participated in a vigil tonight in Des Moines for the girls....my heart is just sick. I don't even know what else to say

http://www.kcci.com/news/central-io...irls/-/9357080/17701716/-/vmy5ot/-/index.html

:hug:

I imagine it was emotional and difficult. I am so impressed with the entire state and how everyone has worked so diligently to pull together and keep Elizabeth and Lyrics case in the public eye.

Thank you for participaing in something many of us too distant could not. Or hearts are there, with the families, with the comunity, with the state a they mourn for these beautiful, vibrant lights.

 

[georger]

Autopsies of the bodies believed to be two missing Evansdale girls were completed Friday, but investigators remained hushed about what medical examiners found or how it could help police identify suspects.

http://dmjuice.desmoinesregister.com/article/20121208/NEWS/312080030/1001/NEWS

I know this has been posted earlier, but I wanted to make sure no one overlooked it.

It seems that the autopsies were finished very quickly. I hope that means the bodies were in good enough condition that a cause of death could be determined.

Lyric and Lizzie are gone, and it's tough to talk about them in terms of autopsies and cause of death. But it is what it is, and I know the families need some answers. I hope there is evidence found over the weekend that will shed some light on what happened to these little girls.

I personally don't care if my entire theory is proven to be nothing but BS - I just want to see justice for these two girls.

agree! noted! we all want the same outcome asap.

 

[hollyblue]

I was speculating in an earlier post today as to if there was any basis in fact to whether LE believed or stated that the girls could have been kept alive all this time. I found this came from FBI comment on 7/21 but could not find much after that or anything to expand on that.

For those of you following this case closely you have probably noted this previously but I am responding to my own questions for the most part.

FWIW...

jmo

I for one believed this as well. Many believe the FBI was just stating they have no facts, evidence or reason to believe they were dead; yet despite saying just that....they stated they believed they were still alive from their investigation. To me, there is a difference. I still believe they could have been taken by pedos in the child industry and kept alive for that purpose. I also believe Iowa has more than it's fair share of sexual pedos//trafficking and tend to also believe there is a direct connection because of the use/production/selling of meth. Both with high percentages in Iowa compared to many other states. JMO

 

[cindersoot]

Well I think the honey badger is going to have to get down there when the park opens back up and get some good pictures.

 

[tlcya]

Sorry to butt in but I'm just wondering about everyone's thoughts on when we will get official confirmation that the bodies are the girls? I mean, I know we know but we have not yet heard from LE about this still? Or have I missed it? I hope not because after being away for a day it took me quite a while to catch up again!

The autopsy is complete. The ME has left it to LE to divulge whatever they decide, whenever. No official word from LE as to offical ID, COD or TOD.

 

[joerose]

I know, I wish people who stop with the meth stuff and drug dealers and on and on. It is more likely a child molestor, they are everywhere. Not being snarky, jmo.

Didn't mean to step on toes here!

 

[cindersoot]

The autopsy is complete. The ME has left it to LE to divulge whatever they decide, whenever. No official word from LE as to offical ID, COD or TOD.

I betcha tomorrow we hear something.

 

[carbuff]

This is another photo from the Gazette website. It's the one that gives the best perspective on where the presumed location of the bodies is relative to the end of the road. The two white spots are in the upper right, and if you look closely you can see part of that ring of yellow police tape. There appears to be a trail leaving the turnaround right next to the vehicle that looks like it might be a coroner's van is parked, but it's a long walk through the woods to get to the crime scene.

This shows the crime scene from a bit wider perspective. You can just make out the two white spots at the edge of the open space where the river bends or branches. It shows pretty clearly how isolated the spot really is. It's even quite far from the nearest place you could paddle to with a canoe -- assuming the water's deep enough for a canoe, which I doubt.

Link to the article: http://thegazette.com/2012/12/06/bremer-county-sheriff-confirms-bodies-were-found-in-wildlife-area/

 

[cindersoot]

Didn't mean to step on toes here!

No toes stepped on here:rocker:

 

[FruitTingles]

The autopsy is complete. The ME has left it to LE to divulge whatever they decide, whenever. No official word from LE as to offical ID, COD or TOD.

I know we won't get COD or TOD for quite a while but wasn't sure about official ID. Thanks.