IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #24

[otto]

I am not criticizing LE, I think they have done their job. I just think that they have absolutely nothing.

They followed the leads when they found the girls bikes by searching the area and draining the lake.

They checked surveillance videos and asked around town when they found nothing in the lake. I think they checked into a possible drug connection because they simply had nothing else to go on.

But honestly I think they have no clue who took the girls, how they died and how they ended up at seven bridges.

In the Jessica Ridgeway case the mom of the perp turned him in. Police took DNA swab from 500 men and Austin Sigg was one of them, so they eventually would have gotten him. He had missed classes but that didn't even get mentioned until the confession and arrest.

I do think LE have most likely talked to the perp in this case, but have no clue who did it and will only find out by happenstance.

I think this case is a lot like the celina cass case where LE was very tight lipped revealed nothing to the media and focused on theories rather than evidence.

I think that they had nothing until the discovery of the children at 7 Bridges. I think that there had to be something there, something small, that could be found. Maybe it's a cigarette but near the bodies ... 20 feet away or so, but it seems likely to me that the perp went back to the location to re-visit his memories and to ensure that they were still difficult to see.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I believe that LE's communication in the Ridgeway was extremely unusual. It seems that in most cases, if LE is doing press conferences or issuing statements, it's due to media interest. The media is camped out in town, they are constantly contacting LE, so LE talks to keep them satisfied. How many cases have there been where once the media coverage faded away, LE did something to get it back? Like for example, if Tucson LE issued a press release asking if someone saw a strange man near Isabel's house? You don't see that very often either. I feel like most LE in this country do not want to be part of a high-profile case.

The sad fact is, children are statistically far more likely to die at the hands of their carers than those of a stranger or even acquaintance.

Statistics also indicate that a fair percentage of these deaths are never punished, simply because it is so incredibly easy to murder and dispose of a child without a trace.

Some of these frustrating cases are cases where everyone knows who did it, but nothing can be proved. Or it has gone to trial, and the parent acquitted due to lack of solid evidence. (Caylee).

The smaller the child, the higher the risk that their carer murdered them.

Some people do get away with murder, sadly. In this life, anyway.

 

[otto]

Even before they found Jessica or the cross, though, LE was doing briefings all the time. They seemed to know the public was in distress, IMO, and responded to it, which is very seldom the case.

There were frequent briefings when this first happened ... all through the weekend when more than 1000 people searched, the lake draining, the drag nets through the neighborhoods, the video surveillance review ... all that was reported ... and then the evidence, trail and information dried up. In the Jessica Ridgeway case, the evidence did not dry up, and when it did there was the related case in the mountains where an 11 year old was left for the grizzlies.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Even before they found Jessica or the cross, though, LE was doing briefings all the time. They seemed to know the public was in distress, IMO, and responded to it, which is very seldom the case.

Also, they eliminated the family straightaway.

They knew by the nature of the evidence that the rarest of all crimes had occurred, a random child abduction by a stranger.

Statistically Jessica had more chance of being hit by lightening than what happened to her. I would argue ARS is a freak of nature too.

 

[carbuff]

We don't know that the evidence dried up. All we know is that they stopped talking about it.

 

[otto]

The sad fact is, children are statistically far more likely to die at the hands of their carers than those of a stranger or even acquaintance.

Statistics also indicate that a fair percentage of these deaths are never punished, simply because it is so incredibly easy to murder and dispose of a child without a trace.

Some of these frustrating cases are cases where everyone knows who did it, but nothing can be proved. Or it has gone to trial, and the parent acquitted due to lack of solid evidence. (Caylee).

The smaller the child, the higher the risk that their carer murdered them.

Some people do get away with murder, sadly. In this life, anyway.

Are you saying that parents typically get away with murdering their children? ... statistically speaking? Perhaps you have a link? (BBM)

 

[otto]

Also, they eliminated the family straightaway.

They knew by the nature of the evidence that the rarest of all crimes had occurred, a random child abduction by a stranger.

Statistically Jessica had more chance of being hit by lightening than what happened to her. I would argue ARS is a freak of nature too.

I don't think that the investigators were thunderstruck and suddenly knew that Jessica was abducted. I think that, given that Lyric and Elizabeth were still missing, an 11 year old had recently been abducted and now there was another young girl missing, all within a few hours drive ... police weren't fooling around.

The disappearance of Jessica was immediately treated as a stranger abduction. No one decided to have a 1000 people ground search, no one drained the lake near the school ... it was understood as a stranger abduction. That should have happened in the abduction of Lyric and Elizabeth as well. A second line of investigation could have been whether they wandered off, went for a swim with the leeches, fell into a lake when they should have been less than a block from home, a third line of investigation could have been whether the parents had a bad association. It was backwards in Evansdale ... perhaps because things like that don't happen in Evansdale.

It was also the perfect staging of the bikes and purse, each on either side of the fence, that perfectly predisposed police to assume that the children were in the area.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I don't think that the investigators were thunderstruck and suddenly knew that Jessica was abducted. I think that, given that Lyric and Elizabeth were still missing, an 11 year old had recently been abducted and now there was another young girl missing, all within a few hours drive ... police weren't fooling around.

The disappearance of Jessica was immediately treated as a stranger abduction. No one sat decided to have a 1000 people ground search, no one drained the lake near the school ... it was understood as a stranger abduction. That should have happened in the abduction of Lyric and Elizabeth as well. A second line of investigation could have been whether they wandered off, went for a swim with the leeches, fell into a lake when they should have been less than a block from home, a third line of investigation could have been whether the parents had a bad association. It was backwards in Evansdale ... perhaps because things like that don't happen in Evansdale.

I believe LE did all these things, and more. :waitasec:

It reads as though you are saying they shouldn't have wasted time with draining the lake, yet you are also saying they should have checked if the girls went for a "swim with leeches"? So they should have searched the lake, or not? Bit confused here.

They spread themselves very thinly, God only knows how many hours of overtime (paid and unpaid) have been devoted to this investigation. If they have focused in one area that could be because that's where the leads have taken them.

:cow:

 

[otto]

I believe LE did all these things, and more. :waitasec:

It reads as though you are saying they shouldn't have wasted time with draining the lake, yet you are also saying they should have checked if the girls went for a "swim with leeches"? So they should have searched the lake, or not? Bit confused here.

They spread themselves very thinly, God only knows how many hours of overtime (paid and unpaid) have been devoted to this investigation. If they have focused in one area that could be because that's where the leads have taken them.

:cow:

What I wrote is that after Lyric and Elizabeth vanished and then the 11 year old vanished, Jessica's disappearance was immediately treated as an abduction. We all know that the disappearance of Elizabeth and Lyric was not immediately treated as an abduction. For example, crime scene tape was added to the SE tip of Meyers Lake (bike location) on Saturday morning, but the bikes were found before 4 PM on Friday. That's a lot of lost time and compromised crime scene as a result of an incorrect assumption ... but given the location of the bikes and purse, it's not surprising that they assumed it was not an abduction.

 

[otto]

We don't know that the evidence dried up. All we know is that they stopped talking about it.

If there was a DNA connection between Meyers Lake or 7 Bridges Park and a sexual predator at a specific location, we would have heard about it. If there was a found piece of jewelry that was connected to the murderer, we would have heard about it. Apparently there is no evidence like this to talk about ... in the Ridgeway case, there was.

 

[Tennlyn]

It's not just a Colorado v. Iowa thing. Every LE agency is different, even in the same state. Just look at JonBenet's case (Boulder LE in Colorado) compared with Jessica's case (Westminster LE in Colorado). The two agencies could not be more different in how they handled the media.

Or for two recent cases, compare Jessica's to Dylan Redwine (near Durango, CO). It's been a month now and still, I don't think LE has had one press conference. Very frustrating.

 

[carbuff]

If there was a DNA connection between Meyers Lake or 7 Bridges Park and a sexual predator at a specific location, we would have heard about it. If there was a found piece of jewelry that was connected to the murderer, we would have heard about it. Apparently there is no evidence like this to talk about ... in the Ridgeway case, there was.

What makes you think we would have heard about it? LE's not under any obligation to tell us one thing.

 

[Squeeze]

:rocker:

How can we find out if Wylma had full custody, or legal custody. I did read on earlier threads that Jane Valez Mitchell reported that Wylma had legal custody, but I also recall that Lyric lived with Wilma.

I recently talked to a Collins family friend, and my understanding was that Lyric stayed at the Collins home for several years, upl until Heather's. cardiac arrest, I believe in November 2010.

 

[Squeeze]

Thanks ... the person that did that is 84 years old ... second childhood with a twist.

If nothing else, it shows that she is a hard worker!! Cuz that is a lot of work!! Good thing you checked on her.

 

[roseofsharon]

For the local people, since WC saw the girls across the street from the Collins' home, did LE ever put crime scene tape around Lederman's and Cornbelt Auctions parking lots on Brovan Ave. and did LE search inside Lederman's and Cornbelt Auctions, including all the out buildings on the Cornbelt Auctions' lot.

IMO

 

[Squeeze]

If there was a DNA connection between Meyers Lake or 7 Bridges Park and a sexual predator at a specific location, we would have heard about it. If there was a found piece of jewelry that was connected to the murderer, we would have heard about it. Apparently there is no evidence like this to talk about ... in the Ridgeway case, there was.

We wouldn't necessarily have heard about either. They want to make sure they have a solid case, and even with matching Dna, if there is any, they would still need to prove their case and may not have enough to make an arrest. So they aren't going to tip their hand prematurely.

 

[Squeeze]

For the local people, since WC saw the girls across the street from the Collins' home, did LE ever put crime scene tape around Lederman's and Cornbelt Auctions parking lots on Brovan Ave. and did LE search inside Lederman's and Cornbelt Auctions, including all the out buildings on the Cornbelt Auctions' lot.

IMO

I'm almost possitive that they did not.

 

[roseofsharon]

Did LE follow up on every person whom had their car serviced at the business located a little bit west of Meyers Lake and either on or near Gilbert Ave. during the window of time the abduction occurred.

IMO

 

[roseofsharon]

Did LE question the owners/workers of all the pubs on that stretch of Lafayette Road to ask if there was anyone in their restaurant they had never seen before or acting strange on Friday, July 13, 2012, during 11:30 a.m. to approx. 1:00 p.m.

 

[Squeeze]

If:what:

Elizabeth's house was Lyric's house too, up until one month before their abduction. While Misty was in prison, then in a halfway house, Lyric lived with Elizabeth, Heather and Drew. Misty just got released from Federal custody on 5/30. The kidnapping was 7/13. So Lyric had only lived elsewhere for 6 weeks. It wasn't exactly like she was "visiting a cousin in another city." It was like she was returning to the home she knew better than any other -- just a few miles away.

If Lyric lived at the Collins house that recently, she would have gone to Poyner elementary with Elizabeth. But she went to Kingsley elementary,which is the district she would have lived in while she lived with Dan and Misty on Campbell (the aforementioned Method House, on the clandestine labs list) . The district probably would have let her still attend Kingsley, while she lived at Grandmas, since its still fairly close. Or they didn't know that she no longer lived at the Campbell address. At any rate, school was out prior to 5/30 of this year. And we know that she attended Kingsley this last school year.
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