IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #3

[tlcya]

:welcome: Pacipirate!

 

[LucyOso]

what keeps them going to the lake for searches? are there any clues that led to that?

I think searching a body of water where two children seemed to disappear from is highly logical and very much proper, reasonable protocol. Kids are attracted to water and kids often get carried away with what they are doing and overlook dangerous situations. I think it is very important this is done in a methodical way. There is also the chance, if they suspect foul play; the children (cringe) or personal items could be anchored to something on the bottom by a perpetrator…especially if it was a thrill kill by older kids or young adults…

 

[Ollipop]

I read that the guy who saw the bikes on the trail didn't call in til later in the day, after he heard that the kids were missing. I also read that the police had already found the bikes by the time they got his call (I'll see if I can find any links to support this anywhere). If this is true, then why did the police swarm the lake area so quickly? I'm trying to figure out if it was because some guy told the aunt that he had seen the kids on the trail shortly before she asked about them? If so, then when police were called, someone in the family could have advised police that the kids were spotted near the lake etc....

I'm *really* hoping there is some info on who the witness is and that he has been grilled seven ways from Sunday by police! I would really hate to think that the guy the aunt talked to might have been somehow involved in an abduction, and he just slipped away quietly after the aunt talked to him! I'm also wondering if he stayed around to help out in any way??

My understanding is that when the mother and grandmother were searching, they went to all the parks in town, and someone at Meyers Lake (they would have been in the parking lot/park area in my pics) said they thought they'd seen the girls. So when the police were called, this would have been the first spot to look. And from my pics, you sort of get the feeling from the parking area that you can see the whole lake. You can definitely see across it. I would imagine they checked nearest the playground area first, maybe went along the shoreline nearest the island, etc, before finally sending a cruiser around the back. I mean, except for that one little spot, you'd see kids playing, or bikes laying down, from across the lake in several spots.

Also, we live in a small town. Our idea of LE "swarming" could/would be two cars, maybe 3. One could be at the parking lot, one where the trail hits Gilbert Ave, and one back by Arbutus. I do not believe Evansdale police drive around in pairs, there is usually one officer per vehicle, and only a few vehicles at all.

I have a question...how long would it take to ride a bike (children) from grandmother's house, to that spot? Looking ath the map to me, I think it would take quite a bit of time with intersections, traffic, etc. Thanks!

Was hoping to actually test this. My guess is, having walked that trail while my 9yr-old and 4-yr old bike it, is that you could get from the spot outside Lederman's to the trail in under a minute, and only that long because the intersection of Lafayette and Evans is a busy 4-way stop. Once on the trail, you could be at the lake in under 10 minutes very easily. You'd have to stop/slow a couple times to cross roads, but I see kids racing down this trail all the time. It's only maybe 5-6 blocks.

As for taking residential streets from the Collins' to the lake, maybe double the time, accounting for traffic and safe biking. We've walked from my house (one block from the lake) to the local ice cream spot (across the street from the Casey's in my pics), and it takes us about half hour, leisurely strolling, with two kids.

Thanks so much for the pics Ollipop. I have a much better perspective now. So this is a fairly small town?? I'll look the population up in a minute, but doesn't seem any bigger than most of my towns around me. Are people not freaking out??? I mean I would be if this were around me.

This is a fairly small town. I've lived all over the country, and this town is larger by Iowa standards only because we are directly adjacent to one of the larger metro areas in Iowa - Waterloo/Cedar Falls. Waterloo is home to many different John Deere production facilities (foundry, etc), and CF is home to University of Northern Iowa (Iowa's smallest of 3 public universities). It's a bedroom community for the neighboring metro area.

Yes, we are definitely freaking out. I was at work Monday, well across Waterloo, and it was all the buzz. At the beach yesterday, many people were discussing it. Flyers, ribbons, LE, news crews, are everywhere. Maybe common in a suburb of NY, Chicago, or LA, but WAY out of place here.

Here is a weird question.... Is there anyone in the town who has "led a campaign” to get that area of the trail widened or the fence fixed? Obviously, it sounds like even adult males get a bit creeped out going there. The reason why I ask is living in many small towns; there is always someone who seems fixated on some flaw that the town/city needs to correct. They attend city council meetings, get on the record, talk to newspapers, etc...To the point that people in the town roll eyes when they speak (talk to the hand). Often times the fixation is related other issues, not really the issue at hand, but it escalates when they are not heard and catered to. I have read of cases where people felt trails were unsafe for off road bikes, motorcycles, etc. And the very people complaining sometimes start “manifesting” the dangers. For example, placing wires across trails that injure or even kill off roaders, of mountain bikers, etc. Disabling bridges...It is like they get so fixated on the cause that they eventually manifest the worst case scenario to get the issue resolved. I am not saying the average concerned citizen would abduct children to get a point across. But, there are people out there that finally “snap” and manufacture crime, drama, etc so they get resolution to one of their pet projects or get their way. It usually isn’t the project itself, but, the gnawing fixation or need and the rejection that leads them to seek a drastic and immediate resolution of the turmoil inside. I am just wondering if there have been any stead-fast, outspoken community members who are super passionate about fixing that trail or area. If so, are they being looked at? If so, any chance what had started as a “case in point” for their mission is snowballing out of control. Just curious…

Not that I'm aware of. And I don't feel it needs "fixing," FTR, either. Obviously recent events have magnified my sense of paranoia about that spot, but the trail overall is loved and respected by this community. Yes, that spot is dark and tight, but its only 50 yards long maximum, on a trail that is usually wide open. For the trail to get between the lake and the highway, there's really no other way to "fix" it, other than maybe by clearing out some of the underbrush/trees, but then, the trail becomes much-less appealing. Also, I imagine those trees shield many of those nicer homes from the hum of the interstate nearby.

Snipped by me. Yes, that happens quite frequently. In fact, even with strong adults (including Iron man triathletes) entrapment in weeds, freshwater or seaweed is one of the biggest causes of drowning. The sensation is horrible and people panic quickly. The more you struggle, the more you get tangled up...Add some mud and sediment to the bottom and your struggle could partially pack you into the lake bed. However, the only thing that is odd it that flip-flops float and any struggle with feet kicking, etc would dislodge a flip-flop and have it float to the surface. That is of course, unless they went into a very marshy area and stepping in the mud sucked off the shoes…Mud can pull of boots, tennis shoes, etc and fully encase them. But, it seems odd that with 2 potential bodies, one has not been found yet…as I would assume the scenarios for drowning would have not been exactly the same. One tries to save the other. I also think by this time, with methane build up and osmosis at least one body would have floated to the surface now. IMOO.

No weeds here, really. They just drained it recently, and it is muddy, but not much in the way of marsh area or weeds. I would be more concerned about sinking into the muck than getting tangled in any weeds. But, you would sink in that mud in the first couple steps - before the water was above your waist in most spots - and the lake was low enough to see anything like that yesterday. If the girls got all the way out into the deeper areas of the lake, I will be surprised.

What's the weather like today in Iowa? It's 100 here in central IL....we didn't get the cold front

My thermometer is showing 96 degrees, 40% humidity. For people who've never experienced Iowa summers, it is unimaginably uncomfortable. We are surrounded by corn, which actually gives off more humidity than would a body of water, because the plants are actively adding moisture no matter how humid, whereas a lake evaporates passively. I've lived in Phoenix, and this kind of weather compares to the hottest 120 degree days there, but, again, there your sweat evaporates instantly in the dryness. Here, you are coated with a layer of sweat at all times, 40% humidity does not allow the air to evap the sweat off of you. We had to call my son's t-ball off early last night, all the kids were soaked after 20 mins, and most parents who were just watching were soaked as well. Dangerously hot for vulnerable ppl.

Especially since they have a pump helping to speed up the process. They should be able to move the pump/ suction hose and just pump out the deep pockets.

I believe the pump is there because the water level has dropped below the level of the drain pipe...its like if your bathtub drain rose several inches up off the floor of your bath. They're just pumping water up and into that pipe, where as before, just opening the pipe allowed water to overflow into it.

Ollipop... Is there Public Transportation in this area... i.e. Buses?

Not much here in Evansdale. I believe there may be one or two stops. TBH, I'm not sure.

Drew Collins: This poor man looked on the verge of the collapse the last time I saw him on television. I think he's trying to protect his ill wife, run his business, look after his children, and now his daughter is missing. I feel terrible for every family member involved, but the pain on this man's face whenever I see him breaks my heart.



Poor LE.

If you knew Drew, you'd know he is such a great person. Owns a tree service, and once gave us a truckload of mulch for under our kids' playset. Just about the nicest, kindest type of person out there. I'm getting goosebumps typing this. The Collins' are genuinely all-around good people. I don't know the other family (her sister), but birds of a feather...

 

[Pensfan]

Hi everyone, I'm new, but I'm a local and I've visited this forum many times. I was practically sitting on my hands last night wishing I could post! I'm originally from Iowa City, but I've lived in Waterloo (About 3 miles from Meyer Lake) for just over a year now and my husband is from the area.

Some of this might be ancient history, but on the 2nd thread there was a lot of speculation about the appropriateness of Lyric's earrings in her school photo. The elementary school Lyric attends has a uniform/dress code, so you find that many children express themselves via jewelry/accessories. Also, a family friend works at the school and told me Lyric is one of the biggest children in her school, let alone her grade. She explained that she would think it'd be extremely hard to get her (and another child) against her will.

To the other locals: Do any of you recall the stabbing on a bike/running path a few months back? Wasn't it at George Wyth? I'll go dig and see if I can find links, but a mother was jogging and stabbed on the trail in broad daylight (around 2pm?) on a weekday. I believe they found the man, and he'd done something of the sort before, but I can't help but feel strange that there seems to be (and have been in the past) a pattern of crime on the bike/running trails.

Also, (again, I'll dig for a link here) before moving here I lived in a town that neighbored Des Moines and a few days ago there was an attempted abduction there. An 8 year old girl playing at a park when a black SUV pulled up and offered to drive her home. SHe screamed and her parents heard her (watching a baseball game). That'd be about 2 hrs west of here.

Sorry to be so long winded! I've been waiting to post! I don't believe the girls are in the lake. The locals on here have done a FANTASTIC job laying out the area, and in all honesty, it was a long time before I realized Meyer was a lake, I assumed it was a pond, as it isn't very large. I don't see how they could be missed in there. And with the construction on 20/380, the traffic is often VERY slow moving. I'm often stuck in it and I feel I'd definitely notice and think it odd if I saw someone swimming in Meyer.

Welcome to Websleuths, Parcipirate!
:welcome:

Thanks for sharing that info! Was the man who stabbed the woman on the trail released or his he still in jail or a psych unit? TIA

 

[sweetpea33]

Hi everyone, I'm new, but I'm a local and I've visited this forum many times. I was practically sitting on my hands last night wishing I could post! I'm originally from Iowa City, but I've lived in Waterloo (About 3 miles from Meyer Lake) for just over a year now and my husband is from the area.

Some of this might be ancient history, but on the 2nd thread there was a lot of speculation about the appropriateness of Lyric's earrings in her school photo. The elementary school Lyric attends has a uniform/dress code, so you find that many children express themselves via jewelry/accessories. Also, a family friend works at the school and told me Lyric is one of the biggest children in her school, let alone her grade. She explained that she would think it'd be extremely hard to get her (and another child) against her will.

To the other locals: Do any of you recall the stabbing on a bike/running path a few months back? Wasn't it at George Wyth? I'll go dig and see if I can find links, but a mother was jogging and stabbed on the trail in broad daylight (around 2pm?) on a weekday. I believe they found the man, and he'd done something of the sort before, but I can't help but feel strange that there seems to be (and have been in the past) a pattern of crime on the bike/running trails.

Also, (again, I'll dig for a link here) before moving here I lived in a town that neighbored Des Moines and a few days ago there was an attempted abduction there. An 8 year old girl playing at a park when a black SUV pulled up and offered to drive her home. SHe screamed and her parents heard her (watching a baseball game). That'd be about 2 hrs west of here.

Sorry to be so long winded! I've been waiting to post! I don't believe the girls are in the lake. The locals on here have done a FANTASTIC job laying out the area, and in all honesty, it was a long time before I realized Meyer was a lake, I assumed it was a pond, as it isn't very large. I don't see how they could be missed in there. And with the construction on 20/380, the traffic is often VERY slow moving. I'm often stuck in it and I feel I'd definitely notice and think it odd if I saw someone swimming in Meyer.

the stabbing on the bike trail was as she came out of George Wyth. she ran over the connecting bridge and into Pfiefer Park where she got help. I thought of theis too when I saw the girls bikes were found on the Nature Trail as well, especially since the stabbing of a girl on the trail wasn't his first time he had done this (he wasn't apprehended the frist time).

 

[sweetpea33]

I am not sure if he was released or not...it happened at the beginning of the summer

 

[nikb]

Although this is probably necessary, it makes me sick, sad, and scared of what might be found:
http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/up...cle_18411a90-cd32-11e1-a656-0019bb2963f4.html

Oh my gosh me too. I can't imagine having a child who's not only missing but being searched for in a swampy lake and a garbage dump. I agree it's necessary but my heart is breaking for these poor families.

 

[LisaB]

"Our knowledge of these case doesn't change stats. It remains the case that a child has more of a chance to be hit by lightning than taken by a stranger".

I have been hit by lightning 8 times, but have never been abducted. I had an adult male stalking me when I was Lyric's age, but he never got his hands on me.

 

[Ollipop]

Pic of trail from twitter

http://twitter.com/mdoctor1/status/225626660559536130/photo/1

That's a good shot, showing how the trail disappears back and down, and is flanked on both sides by fences and bush.

 

[Pensfan]

the stabbing on the bike trail was as she came out of George Wyth. she ran over the connecting bridge and into Pfiefer Park where she got help. I thought of theis too when I saw the girls bikes were found on the Nature Trail as well, especially since the stabbing of a girl on the trail wasn't his first time he had done this (he wasn't apprehended the frist time).

I am searching for a news article on this. Maybe it will list the "disposition" of the guy that attacked her. Do you remember the month that occurred?

 

[Pensfan]

I have been hit by lightning 8 times, but have never been abducted. I had an adult male stalking me when I was Lyric's age, but he never got his hands on me.

Can you charge your laptop now? (Just kidding. I'm glad you're ok! )

 

[Pacipirate]

the stabbing on the bike trail was as she came out of George Wyth. she ran over the connecting bridge and into Pfiefer Park where she got help. I thought of theis too when I saw the girls bikes were found on the Nature Trail as well, especially since the stabbing of a girl on the trail wasn't his first time he had done this (he wasn't apprehended the frist time).

That was one of the first things to cross my mind. I have no idea if he was released, but the second I heard this story it pinged in my head. Also, isn't there a monument/statue off the highway in Cedar Falls dedicated to a runner that was killed? I know that's old news, but I can't help but feel someone/people are targeting the paths and trails in the area.

Also, as far as the RSO searches: They've contacted all in the Evansdale area, but I believe there are just shy of 200 within a few miles (believe me, we did extensive RSO searches when house hunting here) of their area. Also, I'm not sure if it was previously mentioned, but there were searches of many houses (randomly, not following leads) in Evansdale and as far as I've heard, no one refused. I was more concerned with the river on the other side of 20/380, but I'm guessing there was really no good way to get over there.

IMO, I believe that the girls were lured away. My gut screams that they are not in that lake. And if there'd been a struggle, I'd think they would have found a shoe or SOME evidence. As much as I speak to my children regularly about the dangers of people we don't know, I can't think that they wouldn't still be curious or pliable. Granted, by children are much younger, but still. It also GREATLY concerns me to hear of/see young children ALONE putting flyers on car windshields at the movie theater/mall, etc. We have a security system, and a privacy fence and I still can't let my kids out in my yard alone. The thought terrifies me.

 

[sweetpea33]

I am searching for a news article on this. Maybe it will list the "disposition" of the guy that attacked her. Do you remember the month that occurred?

no, but her name was released afterwards and it is Paige King. maybe that will help in the Courier's archives

 

[interface7]

I have been hit by lightning 8 times, but have never been abducted. I had an adult male stalking me when I was Lyric's age, but he never got his hands on me.

EIGHT times?! how is that possible? do tell.

 

[LucyOso]

Some of this might be ancient history, but on the 2nd thread there was a lot of speculation about the appropriateness of Lyric's earrings in her school photo. The elementary school Lyric attends has a uniform/dress code, so you find that many children express themselves via jewelry/accessories. Also, a family friend works at the school and told me Lyric is one of the biggest children in her school, let alone her grade. She explained that she would think it'd be extremely hard to get her (and another child) against her will.[

QUOTE]

Snipped and BBM. I agree about the earings and self expression, totally.

When you say biggest, do you politely mean overweight and/or tall for her age? There were some questions about her actual weight being 145lbs. But, it sounds like she was at that point where kids put on a bunch of weight before puberty stage. Just curious. However, if she was an overweight and out of shape child…if someone threw the purse over the fence to lure them somewhere…maybe they HAD to go around the fence as she would be unable to climb the fence to retrieve it (due to her size)? Could she run fast due to being overweight...etc?

 

[sweetpea33]

I am searching for a news article on this. Maybe it will list the "disposition" of the guy that attacked her. Do you remember the month that occurred?

also, once you have his name there is a website that will tell you who is currently in jail or also you can google "iowa courts online", put his name in and it should bring up his record.

 

[Considering]

Not sure if this was posted yet...





http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-816543?hpt=us_bn2

"Dysfunctional" could mean all kinds of things and something different to different people. What I might consider dysfunctional, my neighbor might not.

Anyway, this is Lyric's paternal grandmother, not the maternal grandmother, Wylma Cook, who was watching Lyric and Elizabeth the day they disappeared.

 

[Pacipirate]

When you say biggest, do you politely mean overweight and/or tall for her age?

I mean to say that she was nearly 5 feet tall and a sturdy girl. I'm sorry if it was insensitive, that was just the term used when we spoke. I'm an adult and only 5' 2" and she's only 3 inches shorter than I am.

Also, I went and looked up the articles about the man accused with the stabbing. It looks like as of May 24th of this year he was still awaiting trail with a potential to serve 10 years, so I'm assuming he's in custody and therefore not related to this tragedy.
http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/se...cle_8ddb2040-a5ee-11e1-87bf-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[Jules71]

I do not see any info on BAH here:
http://www.doc.state.ia.us/OffenderInfo.asp#list

 

[nikb]

<snipped for space>
When you say biggest, do you politely mean overweight and/or tall for her age? There were some questions about her actual weight being 145lbs. But, it sounds like she was at that point where kids put on a bunch of weight before puberty stage. Just curious. However, if she was an overweight and out of shape child&#8230;if someone threw the purse over the fence to lure them somewhere&#8230;maybe they HAD to go around the fence as she would be unable to climb the fence to retrieve it (due to her size)? Could she run in overweight...etc?

I'm only a couple of inches taller than her and from her pics, it seems like the weight is probably right. Overweight doesn't necessarily mean out of shape though, especially if she's at that pre-puberty stage. She was riding her bike often and swimming just about daily depending on which stories (including MSM stories) you read. Apparently she could do backflips into the water, so I would think she could get over a fence?---

-------------------
Edited to add: apparently I'm not as short as I thought. I re-read the missing poster and thought she was 5'2" but it says 4'11". Given that I do think her listed weight might be off a little.