IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #4

[Shelby2]

I know that most of you long time members remember cases where the dad was a suspect and later cleared-but the DAD'S fully cooperated. Elizabeth Smart, Polly Klaas?

 

[Considering]

FYI, kwwl.com claims they will be live streaming these pressers as well as carrying them live on KWWL-TV..

I believe that's the one. There was a link up at the top. It was a pop-up.

 

[duchessofdork]

The Facebook group is approval only now.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/343090685768618/?notif_t=group_r2j_approved

 

[GrainneDhu]

That absolutely makes sense, but there's something to be said for LE's instinct. Like I said, I've been in that situation, and they questioned me and then moved on because it was apparent that I hadn't done anything wrong.

I think it's pretty rare that they focus this much attention on someone with nothing to hide. I'm sure it happens, but not very often, if I had to guess.

About 10,000 people in the United States may be wrongfully convicted of serious crimes each year, a new study suggests.

http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/ronhuff.htm

That would average out to 27.4 times a day.

 

[lishac23]

we got updates on what will be happening with the dive tomorrow and that it is a distraction for the family to quit speaking with police.

I am sure the police are equally frustrated that they have nothing more at this point.

It sure is sad all around :-(

Thanks. I was off and on (work kept rudely interrupting). Only caught a few posts...one being.."we're no closer than on friday". So sad

 

[LucyOso]

bbm: good thoughts on playing


as for guy on the bike.. he allegedly saw them around 1220 and I haven't seen anything about the position of the bikes only that when the sheriff got there he claimed they were leaning against the fence (yesterday's presser)

I read somewhere the guy on the bike had to swerve around them or they were in the path. Maybe that is incorrect. But, if they were found against the fence, maybe they were moved from the bike path. Either by the girls...or a concerned citizen, who I am sure would have come forward...Maybe the girls were really seen at those times. I know my kids forget things, so it is not uncommon for them to have to return to were they were playing to get a cell phone, water bottle, etc. So, perhaps, they did go back and something happened...either they fell into the lake trying to go around the fence to get the purse or someone was waiting for them to try to get the purse. And, the purse being tossed over the fence could have been planned/part of a plan or honestly, if she left it on the handlebars, some kids could have tossed it over to be onery...kids are like that. If you look at those timelines...say this happened around 2:30-3:00 pm...I wonder if there were any construction workers going off shift at that time or what not?

 

[KathrynL]

FYI, kwwl.com claims they will be live streaming these pressers as well as carrying them live on KWWL-TV..

That is where I watched today when the other feed didn't work.

 

[FrayedKnot]

I just cannot believe those girls hopped into that lake fully clothed and drowned.

If they ARE in there, somebody very evil grabbed them, killed them and dumped them there.

Either way, I just feel in my gut that this is not a family member, but a stranger or a peripheral adult that the family MIGHT know. And I don't think they are in that lake, either. IMO

 

[epiphany]

That's a good point. They might have to stay away from each other because when you're paroled, you can't associate with other felons sometimes, right?

Point is, I think they've been together for a while-- hence, Lyric attempting to run away because her dad was angry about housework.

BBM

Could be, but may also have been due to:

Morrissey also has a pending domestic assault charge stemming from an August incident where he allegedly assaulted Misty Morrissey.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/up...128-11e1-af57-0019bb2963f4.html#ixzz216nW66oh

 

[Lava]

I agree that the girls are most likely not in the lake.

However, it is a common misconception that drowning victims splash, scream, etc.



http://www.emedicinehealth.com/drowning/page2_em.htm

Thank you for posting this! I was going to, but was getting caught up. I had to watch a training video once about this and I was absolutely shocked. The video had actual near-drowning footage of children in CROWDED areas and not one person knew except the life guard. It was a real eye opener for me! Drowning is not like what is portrayed on television.

 

[Jules71]

These press releases drive me batty.:banghead: If you aren't going to give any new information NOR comment on things that have been CONFIRMED BY POLICE, why bother?

I guess it annoys me the most when he says "I am not aware of that". Either he is the most UNKNOWING person in this investigation, or that is a lie. The least he could say is "I am not able to make personal comments regarding that question." But "I'm not aware of that" makes me want to scream.:banghead:

BBM - I agree! And it is very frustrating!

Did he just say "I don't know if they are STILL IN THE LAKE?"

Edit-
Just reversed the DVR...he did say "I don't know if they are still in the lake".

Does he mean, he no longer feels they are in the lake? Or is he suggesting they were there and he doesn't know if they still are - meaning they disappeared or were moved out of the lake? Sheesh.

You didn't miss much - there was no live stream available over the internet. One of the stations is uploading it now to their site so we will still all get to watch it together. It was broadcast locally and some of our local excellent WSers were able to fill in some gaps as we were picking up tweets of the presser.

Thanks elepher! :seeya: Got caught up on the posts.

 

[robo_geek2]

:welcome: robo_geek

There are several of us who are in agreement that the bikes and purse seem to be in the most perfect location to have been dumped and in such an inconvenient location for two girls who sought to cool down in the water.

The only thing that seems not to fit with those items being dumped there are the reports that dogs followed the girls scent into the wooded area near the bikes, which suggests that not only the bikes and purse were there but the girls themselves as well.

True. So if the dog's work is accurate, then:

The girls left their bikes, hiked a long way down the trail to get around the fence or somehow got under it, went to the lake and drowned in the lake right there.

If they walked to the lake edge and walked back the same way they got there....the scent trail cannot tell direction.

On the walk back to their bikes, they were abducted.

The girl would have noticed dropping her purse in the woods, so she would have stopped to get it. If the purse was at the water's edge, that would point towards drowning, as she would place her purse down before going into the lake. If the purse was near the fence, or at a random place in the woods, that sounds like foul play.

Not sure if how dense the woods are at the lake's edge right there. I imagine if it's behind the fence, there are no trails.

One issue, perhaps, is that they were suffering from heat stroke at that point, so their actions were not entirely logical.

 

[LucyOso]

Actually it is not so uncommon. We learned all about it in class-many times a drowning person will drag an untrained rescuer right down with them. That's why we had to learn the correct way to save a drowning victim-so we would not end up one ourselves.

There was a case in Idaho where 4 adult males and 2 kids (6 and 2 years old) were on a boat fishing on a lake. One man fell in and another went to save him. He sank, so the third guy goes in, he disappeared, so the fourth man goes in and drowns as well. The six year old ended up calling 911 after floating around in the boat for an hour or so alone with his sibling. It is very easy to become a victim trying to save another...in many situations.

 

[FrayedKnot]

I know that most of you long time members remember cases where the dad was a suspect and later cleared-but the DAD'S fully cooperated. Elizabeth Smart, Polly Klaas?

Shelby, you and I usually agree on these things, but I DO think this dad has been cooperating.

He has an alibi, took a poly, and submitted to police questioning. I may be wrong, but I think he only left after being asked the same thing over and over and giving the same answers.

Again, I could be wrong and I am usually the one pointing at the parents, because statistically, the parents are a more likely suspect.

But these girls were not snatched from theirs beds in the middle of the night. They were outside in the middle of the day, together.

I just don't see the parents having a hand in this. MOO

But FTR, I have total respect for your posts and theories.

 

[Jules71]

IMO they should have had this lake closed off this entire time. Lots of people have been walking around there since Friday. Any chance the perp(s) could get back there and dump the bodies after all this started? Have they had LE staked out there full time in all areas making sure no one was able to come back and dump them?

 

[lishac23]

I read somewhere the guy on the bike had to swerve around them or they were in the path. Maybe that is incorrect. But, if they were found against the fence, maybe they were moved from the bike path. Either by the girls...or a concerned citizen, who I am sure would have come forward...Maybe the girls were really seen at those times. I know my kids forget things, so it is not uncommon for them to have to return to were they were playing to get a cell phone, water bottle, etc. So, perhaps, they did go back and something happened...either they fell into the lake trying to go around the fence to get the purse or someone was waiting for them to try to get the purse. And, the purse being tossed over the fence could have been planned/part of a plan or honestly, if she left it on the handlebars, some kids could have tossed it over to be onery...kids are like that. If you look at those timelines...say this happened around 2:30-3:00 pm...I wonder if there were any construction workers going off shift at that time or what not?

Very good points. I wish LE would elaborate on the condition of the bikes/purse. I am 100% in support of LE (most of them anyway) and respect their need to keep things private. Working closely with criminal cases, I just don't see the point of allowing the public (who oddly enough are most helpful in missing persons cases) to "believe" there's no immediate danger. If you don't know what happened...then you don't know that there isn't somebody lurking in the neighborhood, targeting young girls...

 

[i0wa]

b) there is a fence between the trail and the lake, which looks like a six or even eight-foot chain link fence. The girls purse was found on the 'lake side' of the fence. (this fence is probably there to help keep deer off the highway.

These two facts seem to indicate that the bikes and purse were dumped there. The end of the tall fence is a couple of hundred yards past where the bikes were found, and there is no way the girls got over it. It does not seem logical to leave your bikes on the trail, backtrack a long way to go around the fence, and then drop your purse on exactly the other side from where you left your bikes.

Somebody dropped their bikes there and threw the purse over the fence. It's even possible they stopped on the side of the highway, dropped the bikes over the outside fence, then threw the purse over towards the lake.

The bikes were near a gate in the lakeside fence. The gate was unlocked. So there's no need to scale a fence.

 

[Considering]

To clarify the timeline on Friday because we've gotten a lot of questions on it: 12:15 p.m. Grandma says she last saw the kids in downtown Evansdale; 2 p.m. Mother comes home from appt. and discovers kids aren't there. She looks for them; around 2:30 p.m. She contacts police. Police and firefighters begin search; 4 p.m. firefighter finds bikes on trail by lake.

Also to clarify another question we've gotten a lot: Some of the missing posters have a clothing description for the girls. The sheriff's dept. does not.
by Chris Essig - Courier via mobile 5:55 PM

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdale_search/

Which article has about the mother coming home from an appt. at 2:00 and discovering the kids were not there? I can't find it and I want to read it. I only knew about the grandmother calling Misty when Misty got off work at 2:00. I didn't know when Heather came home! Thanks!

 

[Shelby2]

I am still catching up but lets face it Lyric's parents may have known some not so nice people. Maybe they are not focusing on them but rather people they know/knew?

I think they may still be at the lake because they are looking for evidence.

I missed the part about the parents being 'harassed'...I don't think LE just wants to charge someone so they can get it over with. Why would they do that? They want to catch the person who did this and find these girls.

Who said LE thinks Dan did it? LE never said that did they?

 

[SilkySifaka]

--Nothing to indicate danger to other children in area.

They always say that to stop panic in the area. Its political