IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #6

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  • #221
The thing about paddle boats is that they are slow and steering is awkward. They are much much slower than even a canoe or rowboat. Someone using a paddle boat to abduct children during the light of day is hard for me to accept. Someone would have noticed them. I think they're just looking for a witness. Boats should be registered. But, if this lake was not patrolled and since paddle boats are usually purchased, used for a season and then ignored until the next generation discovers the old paddle boat it's probable the boat was not. Which could perhaps make identification more difficult.

I was speculating that a paddleboat ride could have been used as a lure, not as a getaway vehicle. I would think that that any resident who was near the lake would have come forward or been questioned already, unless they are away on an extended vacation. I’m sure someone will ask at the presser this aft. if the paddleboater has come forward.
 
  • #222
I'm beginning to think they might have run away.

It's possible but I think unlikely.

When kids run away, even from far more horrible homes than either Elizabeth or Lyric have, it usually takes a few practise tries before they can do it for good.

For instance, Flora Jessop, author of Church of Lies (referring to the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints), wrote that she was being physically and sexually abused by her father and physically abused by several of her father's polygamist wives. It was absolutely horrible and there surely could not be a child more motivated to leave than Flora.

Yet it took her four tries before she figured out how to get out and stay out of her parents' home.

Surviving without one's parents is a complex skill set. It's not usually something a kid can figure out in one try.

Typically, they make several tries, each time staying away longer and longer.

For an eight year old and ten year old to succeed on the first try would be incredible.

Particularly given that I don't think Elizabeth, who is only 8 years old, would be comfortable staying away home and her sick mother for that long. No matter how close she is to Lyric, at that age, there's usually no one with more emotional pull on a child than the primary caregiver (which is usually the mother).
 
  • #223
The thing about paddle boats is that they are slow and steering is awkward. They are much much slower than even a canoe or rowboat. Someone using a paddle boat to abduct children during the light of day is hard for me to accept. Someone would have noticed them. I think they're just looking for a witness.

Boats should be registered. But, if this lake was not patrolled and since paddle boats are usually purchased, used for a season and then ignored until the next generation discovers the old paddle boat it's probable the boat was not. Which could perhaps make identification more difficult.

I tend to agree. I can't imagine trying to do ANYTHING quickly in a paddle boat.

Question for any of the locals because I couldn't find it online - is registration required for a paddle boat? In California it's required for "all vessels except: boats propelled manually" (among other exceptions). This is per a booklet put out by the Department of Boating and Waterways (dbw.ca.gov). Obviously a different state but it seemed likely to me that other states would have similar rules. Not sure it even matters, but I just wanted to ask.
 
  • #224
So everyone knew about the biker who saw the bikes at 12.20-but the police did not-is that correct?
What time is the presser?
TIA
 
  • #225
From July 17 th, A Coffee Cup is bagged as potential evidence:

AyBEEoJCMAELesi.jpg


http://twitter.com/CourierPhoto/status/225254827649806336/photo/1/large


Why didn't they bag the Amp drinks as well??? I think they should be tested.
 
  • #226
Chris Essig at the Courier says that as of Friday, the police were not aware of a biker that saw the bikes at 12:20. That biker was known only to the media, not the police. WHAT?!?! I just had this conversation with him on Twitter:

@Leadfoot_LA:
Girls in vid 12:15; Bikes spotted @lake 12:20. REPORTERS - pls ask Abben if they think girls could ride 1.5 mi in 5 min. #evansdalesearch

@CourierEssig:
@Leadfoot_LA It was brought up Fri. Abben wasn't aware a biker (who spoke with us) saw the bikes at 12:20 #evansdalesearch

@Leadfoot_LA:
@CourierEssig Surely they have questioned him by now, right? It needs to be asked again. #evansdalesearch

The 12:20 sighting may not be listed in LE’s timeline because it could not be independently verified by LE (or the bikes have been confirmed as belonging to 2 different cyclists) but here’s a link:

UPDATED LINK: http://globegazette.com/news/iowa/e...cle_7dbadcc0-cfd1-11e1-b097-001a4bcf887a.html

'As the group searched, a bicyclist stopped the officers to say he saw the two kids bikes on the trail at about 12:20 p.m., but no sign of the children. Ted Gamerdinger of Waterloo said he rides the trail often. “I saw the bikes laying on the path and had to swerve to miss them,” Gamerdinger said. He then went to the Evansdale Police Department to report the sighting.’
 
  • #227
Chris Essig at the Courier says that as of Friday, the police were not aware of a biker that saw the bikes at 12:20. That biker was known only to the media, not the police. WHAT?!?! I just had this conversation with him on Twitter:

@Leadfoot_LA:
Girls in vid 12:15; Bikes spotted @lake 12:20. REPORTERS - pls ask Abben if they think girls could ride 1.5 mi in 5 min. #evansdalesearch

@CourierEssig:
@Leadfoot_LA It was brought up Fri. Abben wasn't aware a biker (who spoke with us) saw the bikes at 12:20 #evansdalesearch

@Leadfoot_LA:
@CourierEssig Surely they have questioned him by now, right? It needs to be asked again. #evansdalesearch

BBM

I say NO the girls could NOT ride 1.5 mi in 5 min

For comparison sake a car travelling 60 miles per hour would take 1 minute and 30 seconds to travel 1.5 miles

So, for the girls to travel 1.5 miles in 5 minutes they would have to be going at 18 miles per hour for all 5 minutes. Most adult riders only achieve 12 miles per hour and that is on pavement.

jmo
 
  • #228
there is a name there now, probably just did not have ID
JMO

Nitsirk is right. All of the names there now were there yesterday. The blank and at least one name that were there yesterday are gone now. I googled all of the names on there yesterday, and definitely remember Melinda.
 
  • #229
The 12:20 sighting may not be listed in LE’s timeline because it could not be independently verified by LE (or the bikes have been confirmed as belonging to 2 different cyclists) but here’s a link:

http://globegazette.com/news/iowa/re...a4bcf887a.html

'As the group searched, a bicyclist stopped the officers to say he saw the two kids bikes on the trail at about 12:20 p.m., but no sign of the children. Ted Gamerdinger of Waterloo said he rides the trail often. “I saw the bikes laying on the path and had to swerve to miss them,” Gamerdinger said. He then went to the Evansdale Police Department to report the sighting.’

So if they aren't considering him credible, are they considering him suspicious? Why did he see bikes at 12:20 and then was back on the trail at 4pm to tell police? He doesn't live in Evansdale, so why was he hanging out there for 3-1/2 hours?

I guess if the police aren't considering 12:20 as part of the timeline, then we shouldn't either.
 
  • #230
I have no idea whether or not LE considers the cyclist credible or not, but I've only heard LE speak of when the girls were last seen (12:15) not when their bikes were last seen.
 
  • #231
Can someone please HELP?

I am looking for the article on the man who was outside watering the lawn between 12 and 3 pm?

Is there a known or most likely bike route that the girls took from Leaderman to the Lake?

What was the name of the street where they always turned around on??

A verified local (Ollipop) has noted how unlikely that witness testimony is based on the location of Mr Carpenter's house.

As I recall, he said that the house is located on a street a couple blocks away from any direct route to Meyer's Lake from Elizabeth's house and so, not a likely turn around spot.
 
  • #232
FBI spokeswoman Sandy Breault said Monday that investigators want to interview a person who was paddleboating on the lake around the time the girls disappeared. She said that person, who has not voluntarily come forward, could help investigators learn what happened to the girls but was not considered a suspect.

"They believe that person has information," she said. "They really do need to talk with the person."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...elizabeth-collins-paddleboater_n_1694893.html

I am so hoping this person comes forward and even more, hopeful that maybe, just maybe (s)he saw something useful to the investigation.
 
  • #233
Did anyone hear the FBI spokeswoman say that the cyclist had been in contact with LE? I thought I heard that. MOO
 
  • #234
Her name was there yesterday. The 'blank' entry has disappeared

Interesting new name that was booked today too bad I am at work and can't sleuth it
 
  • #235
Interesting new name that was booked today too bad I am at work and can't sleuth it

I looked that up. There's a news article about it. It's not related.
 
  • #236
Cops on Missing Cousins: There May Be a Witness

Someone may have been present when Iowa cousins Lyric Cook-Morrissey and Elizabeth Collins disappeared on July 13. An FBI spokeswoman said today that investigators want to interview a person who was paddleboating on the lake around the time the girls vanished.

http://www.newser.com/story/150663/cops-on-missing-cousins-there-may-be-a-witness.html




Mom of 1 of 2 missing Iowa girls says polygraph should prove she's not involved in abduction

http://www.startribune.com/nation/163406916.html?refer=y
 
  • #237
So if they aren't considering him credible, are they considering him suspicious? I guess if the police aren't considering 12:20 as part of the timeline, then we shouldn't either.

LE verifies all data/evidence before putting it out there. It was reported that LE had the Lederman’s security video 5 days before they released that information to the public during Friday’s (20th) presser — they probably had to have the video cleaned up and then the images verified by the girls’ parents first.
 
  • #238
Plus I remember reading that it's been miserably hot there. Unless they ran away to somewhere that's air conditioned I think they'd come home just for that.

(sorry if this is a repeat thought, still catching up)

I just came home. When I left at 9 am, it was pleasantly warm but muggy.

When I got home again at 1:00 pm, it was dry and hot, hot, hot (96 F). The hottest part of the day in Iowa is usually around 3 pm.

If LE is still checking the landfill, I salute them. The heat out there would make it almost unbearable.

Off topic: the corn looks terrible. The leaves are not only all pointed up (healthy, happy corn leaves are gracefully arched toward the ground), they are rolled up and the lowest part of the plants is starting to yellow, 6-8 weeks early.

The beans look awful, just puny and about half the soybean leaves are turned bottom side up.

This spring, the first cutting of hay was in May (a month early). The second (richer) cutting should be ready, if not already cut. I didn't see a single hay field that looked like it was ready for the second cutting.

It's almost like insult on top of injury to be having such a bad crop year topped off by the disappearance of these two girls.
 
  • #239
  • #240
I disagree. It makes sense to record autos coming and going as well.

(Not speaking to you personally...just in general)
IMO if ANYONE puts up security cameras, the video should have enough clarity to actually record a face as well as a person on a bicycle so that you can see details. Crappy cell phones take better pictures then this lame security camera did. (I feel the same about the Mickey Shunick footage.) I just don't see the point of having these when they don't do a damned bit of good at recording an image.

IMO, JMO, MOO

Respectfully, how do you overcome the inherent problem that a given lens has a specific focal field, no more and no less?
 
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