IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #6

[Jules71]

BBM

Sorry, it's not uncommon for posts to overlap.

You say "we are trying to determine which day he did those two things." Why? I'm not trying to be snarky, I just really don't see what difference it makes. LE has given no indication at all that they question the biker's sighting of the bikes. LE also has not indicated that the biker failed to report his information to the proper authorities in a timely manner.

Why does it seem the biker's credibility is at issue here? How does that relate to finding Lyric and Elizabeth?

Because if he reported it to the officers at the lake around 4 pm Friday - that would be extremely odd to me. For him to be riding by just prior to 12:27 and see the bikes and then still there at 3-4 pm when LE is searching for two missing girls makes it seem like he could be trying to insert himself into this case as some perps have been known to do. I am not saying that is the case, just trying to be thorough in having all of the information before making that assumption. Others seem clearly interested in this same info.

LE/Abben states he was not aware of this sighting of the bikes. That is definitely something Abben should know IMO.

You ask how his credibility relates to finding Lyric and Elizabeth - If he is found to not be credible - then one would need to find out why and if he has anything to do with this.

For all we know this could be the same guy who told the Aunt he saw the girls riding East at 2:30.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Yes, BUT -

(I'm learning wayyyy more about sniffer dogs than I ever thought I would) whatever you eat affects your scent.

Therefore, if a dog is given something the person was wearing the day the went missing, say they'd eaten hotdogs that day, the hotdog scent will be part of what the sniffer dog looks for and alerts to.

But you're right, the dog can't tell us that...they can't say...I got this girl, but not with hotdogs!

I suppose there could be some sort of "control" set up so the dog can indicate which "day" clothing is the right one? Eg Tuesday hot dogs, wednesday Maccas, the dog could indicate it picked up the Maccas? They are pretty smart.

It's a shame they can't talk, really.

Something you eat once or only once in a while won't make much difference in your scent.

Something you eat a lot will. Consider that people who eat garlic frequently exude a garlic smell all the time, even if they happened not to have eaten garlic that day.

But someone who only eats garlic once in a while won't continue to exude that scent.

More importantly, your regular diet affects the bacteria and fungus that colonise your gut.

Remember that only 10% of the DNA in your body actually belongs to you!

 

[SapphireSteel]

BBM

I don't think LE think so. Abben wasn't even aware of the report. Obviously he is not given all information that comes in. Perhaps TG's information was not considered crucial because it has been determined that it was not the girl's bikes that he saw.

But we do know now that there was a runner/jogger at the lake that day who absolutely did see the bikes. Obviously they have been told not to go to the media with this info. And so there is a concrete time that LE do know that the bikes were there prior to 4pm.

MOO

I'm reading between the lines that the FBI have swooped in on this one and almost shut the local LE out altogether.

 

[Wishbone]

I can't bold on my phone (am I missing something in Tapatalk?) but I don't understand all the attention on the biker either. In one breath we (collective) are begging for this paddle boater or anyone else that was there to come forward and in another we (again collective) are ripping apart the one person that has came forward. Is it any wonder private citizens want no part of these investigations?

I would never tell anyone how to post but I just wish we could keep these things off the boards. There is nothing wrong with sleuthing on your own and keeping notes but we know locals are reading here and we could be scaring off the very witness LE is looking for with these sort of posts. Just my 2 cents and I'll shut up now.




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Vague reporting and differences in written articles always bring up these types of discussions.....

 

[GrainneDhu]

Nope, freshest/newest means just that. Haven't meant a dog yet who could wave their paw 3 times to tell me it was from Wednesday, 4 times for Thursday, etc. That would be handy though.

I bet HO's dogs could do it. <snort>

 

[Marilynilpa]

I'm asking for confirmation as so much seems to be shifting in this case...one minute it's x time, the next it's a different time altogether...

Originally I had believed that the last confirmed sighting LE felt was 100% credible was via videotape at 12.15 when they were actually riding down the street.

Then TG reported he swerved around the ALREADY DUMPED bikes five minutes later...as I explained in an earlier post, I'm not sure which news source is the most credible from way down under so I'm asking for confirmation from local posters.

If these times are correct, there is no way on Gods earth the girls had enough time to ride to the lake, dump their bikes, meet their abductor, be snatched and driven away without a trace (of even an abduction vehicle), all in five minutes.

IMO.

:moo:

So it's the overall timeline you are questioning, and not the biker's credibility? That makes sense - there are a lot of us who don't think the girls had time to make it to the trail in time to have left their bikes by 12:20.

But that isn't a question of the biker's credibility, IMO.

 

[cluciano63]

Maybe his tip is not credible to LE due to the the time he says he saw the bikes...if they know that that couldn't be correct?

 

[SapphireSteel]

Something you eat once or only once in a while won't make much difference in your scent.

To us! Maybe not to these Wonder dogs! Anyway pretty much o/t...for sake of this case I guess.

 

[Truman]

The fact they drained the lake and didn't rush off in an opposite direction altogether?

Plus no one in the family said "uh uh, they aren't our girls bikes"

Plus, they were taped riding the bikes?

Dunno, maybe the Investigators are smart enough to confirm it without actually declaring it?

If they weren't the girls bikes, are there two MORE missing bikers?

They drained the lake likely because they DID find the girls' bikes there. But we do not know if the bikes seen before 12:27 on the trail were the girls' bikes. Their bikes were found in a different location.

 

[GrainneDhu]

This witness is all over this case.

He's contacted LE several times apparently, and some of his statement's don't mesh with what we know.

Am I correct in believing he is the ONLY witness who actually saw the girls at the lake?

So far as I know, he has never claimed to see the girls.

All he has claimed is that he saw a pair of bicycles lying on the trail shortly before 12:27 pm.

 

[nervous_nellie]

anyone have a link for the presser? tia

 

[gregjrichards]

WARNING - Press conference in 10 minutes at 4pm CT watch here live http://wcfcourier.com/twitter-updat...tml_7502e29a-ce9a-11e1-80bf-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[Mimiof8]

Because a lot of you are concerned about the biker, TG. I'd like to know if your concerns are just a feeling or if you did any research on TG?

I could be completely wrong about him but I can't find any reason not to believe him. I searched everywhere I knew to search and I can't even find a parking ticket for him. Hes a business owner and seems to be active in the community. His children are adults and hes involved with them. I realize that there's always a first time for criminals but not usually at his age. Sometimes the helpful, do whatever I can guy is just that and not necessarily a criminal.

Just my opinion, you might search him and find something I didn't to change my opinion.

 

[Wishbone]

They drained the lake likely because they DID find the girls' bikes there. But we do not know if the bikes seen before 12:27 on the trail were the girls' bikes. Their bikes were found in a different location.

Well, I don't know exactly where the bikes were found as I haven't seen a map from LE exactly placing them anywhere. I can only guess they were in that area between two chain link fences and lots of foilage.

 

[epiphany]

What Tammy said about the dogs picking up the girls' scent at the edge of the lake, as well as in the "forest"/woods:

BROUSSEAU: I just wanted to say one more thing, you know, about those bloodhounds that were brought in by the FBI. They did one at a time. One for Elizabeth and one for Lyric. And I was explain to you, so the bikes were found right where those -- the rocky area is, where they`re guessing the girls may have entered the lake at.

But I was there, I watched the bloodhounds continue on into this dense forest area, which is about 400 yards. I watched them go into that area and they positively identified both girls were at that location.

GRACE: Right, at the edge of the water.

BROUSSEAU: And --

GRACE: Go ahead.

BROUSSEAU: Yes, not, you know, not at the -- just at the edge of the water. If you continue on down the bike trail east, there is about approximately 400 acres of forest, dense forest to the left side, and that is where the dogs continued on to and picked up the girls` scent. And that`s when they stopped and brought the dog back and they did the next dog.

The next dog positively identified the next girl`s person to be in that forest. And that`s kind of where I believe it went cold for them. The dogs couldn`t pick up anymore scent. I`m not saying for sure that they couldn`t pick up more scent and go on further, but that is where the investigators stopped, brought the dogs back, told us that, yes, the dogs positively identified the girls to go past the site where the bikes were dropped and farther on into the forest.


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/19/ng.01.html

 

[vasportsmom]

WARNING - Press conference in 10 minutes at 4pm CT watch here live http://wcfcourier.com/twitter-updat...tml_7502e29a-ce9a-11e1-80bf-0019bb2963f4.html

I hope we get more today than we did yesterday. I'd love some really good news. Also, thanks in advance to those that report on it for us. I know I can't watch right now.

O/T does anyone know if there is a way to alert on a post using the phone app? General question I swear.



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[gregjrichards]

Here is an additional link if required http://www.kwwl.com/global/video/fl...rt=undefined&akProfile=undefined&rnd=36130980

 

[CoachSue]

Another link for watching the 4pm presser: www.kwwl.com/missing

 

[SapphireSteel]

I've trained 4 tracking dogs and the smartest one was a Treeing Walker Coonhound and I taught him to ID 4 hairs from a person's head. But many trackers are smart in different ways and that is why a tracker always needs about 4 good dogs and on cases like this one, then dogs from different handlers.

One of my better dogs, a Doberman, is quite smart at tracking and I trained him by the side of my house just following a straight trail. I know it is difficult to believe, but after training him about 5 times on a straight track, I laid a track around my neighborhood for about one mile, crossing streets and turning corners then brought the Dobie out and told him to find my scent, showing him a scent item, and he did the complete track even crossing the street at the exact places and I was quite surprised at what he could do - but he is no where near as good as my Walker Hound, and then another hound, a pointer mix I found, can do perfect trails in the city. But the best use is when I put them all together and that is why on these types of cases many dogs are needed and used because they will ID and pick up different nuances and scent pools and trails that when put together give a more complete picture of what happened.

They are absolutely amazing.

Someone once desribed it to me that they "see" their scent...just like you or I could pick out one red ball amongst a million different shades of blue balls. They do not make mistakes, nor are they confused by pink, yellow, or green balls.

If you think of it like that, you can understand a little bit better how they work.

 

[JaimeInLA]

I can't bold on my phone (am I missing something in Tapatalk?) but I don't understand all the attention on the biker either. In one breath we (collective) are begging for this paddle boater or anyone else that was there to come forward and in another we (again collective) are ripping apart the one person that has came forward. Is it any wonder private citizens want no part of these investigations?

I would never tell anyone how to post but I just wish we could keep these things off the boards. There is nothing wrong with sleuthing on your own and keeping notes but we know locals are reading here and we could be scaring off the very witness LE is looking for with these sort of posts. Just my 2 cents and I'll shut up now.




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I don't think anyone is tearing him apart. We are just trying to understand why he kept returning to the scene (if he did, which we think he did), how many times he contacted law enforcement, and why LE doesn't include his bike sighting in their timeline. It makes a huge difference if the girls went missing between 12:15 and 12:27 vs. 12:15 and 3:00. LE is going with the latter. We are just trying to figure out why.