IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #6

[KorCat]

Maybe the voice mail from Elizabeth was sent after they disappeared and it is the proof they have that they are still alive. Maybe going on television with it was a plan by LE to communicate with the perp.

I think that's more likely, than him actually "just finding it"... . my first post in this thread was that I think there's stuff going on we don't know about. I think they are closer to the girls than we think.

 

[nervous_nellie]

I do too. If Tammy, Grandma, and E's brother were at the lake at 2:45 why didn't they find the bikes? If LE was there at 3 - why did it take them an hour to find the bikes?

this is something that i would like to know too....

 

[GrainneDhu]

I saw it on the maps searching too but have been sick...pneumonia sick better some now. I think that's what Tammy was calling the "400 acre" area too in her interview the other day.

Oh, I hope you feel better soon.

I suspect TB may have over-estimated but I can't tell for sure. That doesn't look like 400 acres (which would be just over half of a square mile) but I am terrible at reading maps or overhead photos.

 

[hollyblue]

Oh, I hope you feel better soon.

I suspect TB may have over-estimated but I can't tell for sure. That doesn't look like 400 acres (which would be just over half of a square mile) but I am terrible at reading maps or overhead photos.

Well the lake is 25/26 acres...and the "forest", lol, is much smaller. Just guessing, but about the size of 3 to 4 ac lots compared to the other properties to the north and bordering the lake.

 

[BethInAK]

Here is the link to the story about the three boys dying in the trunk. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/25/nyregion/25camden.html

also note that no one could say why the bloodhounds did not alert to the trunk right where the boys were last seen - personally I think someone put them in the trunk, an older teenager, but that is just my theory and not proven.

I could totally see my son climbing into a trunk with his friends....and shutting the lid without realizing the ramifications of that. We've spoken to him about old refrigerators but not car trunks. I will do that today. At this point, he does not play outside unsupervised, but I'm sure someday, he will.

 

[tlcya]

Oh, I hope you feel better soon.

I suspect TB may have over-estimated but I can't tell for sure. That doesn't look like 400 acres (which would be just over half of a square mile) but I am terrible at reading maps or overhead photos.

I have also heard TB describe this area as 400 yards (which I find more accurate). I think she misspoke when on NG and referred to it as acres. MOO

 

[Mjskit]

I could totally see my son climbing into a trunk with his friends....and shutting the lid without realizing the ramifications of that. We've spoken to him about old refrigerators but not car trunks. I will do that today. At this point, he does not play outside unsupervised, but I'm sure someday, he will.

The whole car too. My grandchildren went missing and when LE arrived they first thing I was asked was, "Could they be in a vehicle?". I said no, all of them are locked. It was 96 degrees that day and they were missing for about an hour. Guess where they were found? In a car that was NOT locked when they got in but they locked the doors and couldn't unlock them. We are so blessed that LE did not take our word for it. BTW they followed the rules and did not leave our yard.

 

[Curbfeeler]

Both sets of parents have criminal records. However Elizabeth's parents were minor.

My opinion differs here. A shoplifting charge as a younger person and an open container ticket aren't worth mentioning when you are talking criminal activity. Technically, I suppose it's a criminal record, but I question that newspaper's choice of words.

 

[SapphireSteel]

From your link: According to the family, 11-year-old daughter Kiersten Fort was in the 2700 block of Jackson Street in Dubuque just after 2 p.m. Saturday, waiting to meet a friend, when a white van pulled up beside her.

BBM
WOW! That's a strange coincidence. I think other cases of abductions (or attempts at least) or missing persons mentioned a white van.

In the olden days (like, 30 years ago lol) the vehicle of choice for a serial was a vw...most likely a bug, like Bundy. Now, the FBI have found it is either a white van, or this decade, a black SUV.

I remember posting this little fact on Sierra Lamar's thread and whaddaya know...the perp drove a VW.

I am not joking. FBI profilers can often even pinpoint what sort of car a perp is likely to drive, beforehand. I read where Roy Hazelton (sp?) told LE they were looking for a guy with a stutter...and they found one.

Amazing. Even these so-called humans can be very, very predictable. I continue to hold the faith that this is why the FBI believed they were still alive...in the early days at least. Whether this is still true is more unlikely with each passing day, sadly.

They possibly released the message to jolt whatever is left of a heart, either in a perp or a witness.


:moo:

 

[GrainneDhu]

You know I just watched it again and yeah it is real strange that he didn't look at voice mails for 9 days. Maybe when LE is finished with the jailbird parents they can talk to the forgetful parents.

My impression, wholly unsupported by any evidence, is that it was a voicemail he'd saved from before the girls disappared. He'd forgotten the saved voicemail until just before he went on the air.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I am a little alarmed that the paddleboat person has not come forth in 12 days with this being such a big case there.

Why wouldnt they?

I noticed in the GMA video that the lake is sort of narrow and it wouldnt take that long to get to shore.

It seems now that LE is very interested in finding this person.

IMO

I keep wondering if perhaps an eyewitness confabulated seeing a paddleboat on Thursday with Friday, when the girls disappeared.

If so, the person in the paddle boat probably doesn't realise they are being sought out, because they know they were out there Thursday.

Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.

 

[Just Pat 22]

What about the young boy fishing in Meyers lake has he been questioned.? I would check the house of the Guy that found the bikes . The whole things sounds like a set up .I think the girls went there to met someone they knew or off the internet . Lyric tried to runaway a few days before she went missing . ??? MHO

 

[ShyViolet]

The man said "LITTLE girls?" I wouldn't call Lyric and Elizabeth little. To me, little means 4 or 5. Lyric is a tween and weighs as much as most adult women. Elizabeth is smaller, but I still wouldn't call an eight year old little. Maybe he saw different girls.

Sorry I am a little late on this, but I wanted to say, I think it is important to remember this is NOT a direct quote from the man. It is a quote of what Aunt Tammy said the man said, based on her memory days later. I am not sure it is worthwhile to dissect the man's wording when it could have easily been Tammy who inserted the word little. ; )

 

[SapphireSteel]

this is something that i would like to know too....

They may not even have got out of their car.

Remember, they were expecting the girls to be there...not to NOT be there, if you know what I mean.

By this time they were probably starting to get alarmed and I can easily imagine they thought a drive by was the most effective and quick way of checking. The lake looks fairly open view-wise, the family knew they had their bikes, so they would have been looking for two girls on their bikes, not two missing girls and two discarded bikes.

I too would've driven by slowly....nup, can't see em...where else could they be? Let's drive past x....they might've gone there....and kept on driving, probably all the time saying "those little brats will be at home watching tv when we get back".

If they were expecting to find two girls, on their bikes, already late and in trouble at home, they would be expecting to find them on their bikes, pedalling like mad, somewhere on the road home. All they needed to do, in their minds, was find the right road, and they would find the girls. It is absolutely natural and understandable they didn't get out and look.

IMO of course.

:moo:

 

[tlcya]

What about the young boy fishing in Meyers lake has he been questioned.? I would check the house of the Guy that found the bikes . The whole things sounds like a set up .I think the girls went there to met someone they knew or off the internet . Lyric tried to runaway a few days before she went missing . ??? MHO

From what I have read and heard, Lyric did not attempt to run away days before going missing. She and another cousin (maybe TB's daughter, I don't recall) went to the park down the road from the cousin's home and did not return home when expected. The adults searched for them at the park, did not find them there and just after calling police to report them missing, the girls turned up. They had lost track of time, reportedly.

This is reported to have happened 4 days prior to Lyric and Elizabeth were abducted.

 

[SapphireSteel]

My opinion differs here. A shoplifting charge as a younger person and an open container ticket aren't worth mentioning when you are talking criminal activity. Technically, I suppose it's a criminal record, but I question that newspaper's choice of words.

I clean forgot to pay my car rego.

I was one day over, got pulled, ticketed, forgot about it.

Imagine my horror when I requested a National Police Clearance Certificate and there in black and white, under "criminal convictions" was "driving while unregistered".

Apparently I am now a criminal.

:jail:

 

[Jules71]

They may not even have got out of their car.

Remember, they were expecting the girls to be there...not to NOT be there, if you know what I mean.

By this time they were probably starting to get alarmed and I can easily imagine they thought a drive by was the most effective and quick way of checking. The lake looks fairly open view-wise, the family knew they had their bikes, so they would have been looking for two girls on their bikes, not two missing girls and two discarded bikes.

I too would've driven by slowly....nup, can't see em...where else could they be? Let's drive past x....they might've gone there....and kept on driving, probably all the time saying "those little brats will be at home watching tv when we get back".

If they were expecting to find two girls, on their bikes, already late and in trouble at home, they would be expecting to find them on their bikes, pedalling like mad, somewhere on the road home. All they needed to do, in their minds, was find the right road, and they would find the girls. It is absolutely natural and understandable they didn't get out and look.

IMO of course.

:moo:

But according to Aunt Tammy - she went up to random people to ask if they had seen the girls. Someone told her yes they did see the girls just 15 mins prior. Why then not walk around the lake to look?

 

[Just Pat 22]

I still think Lyric may have met someone on FB or internet thinking they were good friends and they went willingly with the people that took them ? So many thoughta yet no girls to show , something seems pretty strange to me. .What about the boy that was fishing on the day the girls were taken he said : he never saw them ????

 

[GrainneDhu]

If they looked (walked the bike trail because that would be the logical place to look for someone riding a bike) why didn't they find the bikes? The bikes were found by a fireman at 4pm. According to Tammy they were at Myers Lake at 2:45. Does anyone here have a scenario to explain this?

I don't think the family walked the trail.

About the time they got to Meyer's Lake, Heather Collins got to the PD and was reporting the girls missing. From where the family was parked at Meyer's Lake, they could see both ends of the bike trail around the lake and they knew there weren't any outlets. So if the girls were on the trail, they would show up at one end of the U shape or the other and be easily seen.

Plus, they were talking to a man who said he'd seen two little girls riding bikes.

The first thing LE would do is try to get the family under control, send the family members to where they could monitor the home and watch a landline phone.

We've certainly seen how talkative Aunt Tammy is (I write this intending it as a description rather than a put down), so I'm sure whoever was interviewing her had some difficulty in getting just the facts from her.

 

[Jax49]

From what I have read and heard, Lyric did not attempt to run away days before going missing. She and another cousin (maybe TB's daughter, I don't recall) went to the park down the road from the cousin's home and did not return home when expected. The adults searched for them at the park, did not find them there and just after calling police to report them missing, the girls turned up. They had lost track of time, reportedly.

This is reported to have happened 4 days prior to Lyric and Elizabeth were abducted.

We heard two stories from two different days. One day she and a cousin were late, but her grandmother also said she stopped Lyric from running away (on another day).