IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #6

[BlueIris]

the pressers are usually at 4 (at least with Abbens they have been). Its 4pm here now, however... Iowa is an hour behind me (in Ontario), so its 3pm there now

 

[nikb]

<snipped for space>

It has been my own personal experience that the older I get, the more I call girls, even teens, little girls. My mother once told me that when I was in my early 20s, my grandmother asked her (about me and my cousin) "when will they start to look like women instead of little girls". Guess it is in the eye of the beholder.

Yes for sure! Just the other day I had someone (early 60s in age) ask if I'd heard about the "accident up your street where the kids got hit" and I was surprised I didn't know what she was talking about. Found out the "kids" were 21 and 23... who sadly LOOK like kids to me now but I don't call them that. Probably will when I'm in my 60s though. It freaked me out the first time highschoolers started looking like "little kids" to me.

 

[Kamille]

I'm catching up so sorry if this is way old news, but I think you're picturing the same type of boat I am. The ones you rent at a fair or something are usually two seats and swans (never seen a flamingo or sea monster, though I now hope to!). But the every-day ones I've seen at lakes are very plain, seems like they're usually yellow or orange, 4 seats with a spot in the back a 5th person could sit.

Like you I'm not confident a boat was even there and like someone else said it might just be the worst possible getaway vehicle ever. I'm just trying to think through what people saw, might've seen, and when.

Well I'm a little disturbed by Ollipop's admission that he lives right across from the lake houses and no one from LE have ever been to his house to ask him anything. Just what houses have they been to? Who in the neighbourhood have they spoken with? Did they get access to that strange white garage building?

Wouldn't it be pretty easy to check the houses around there that do have paddleboats and find out if they were home that day, or if they left for vacation perhaps in the following days? Or were out or on vacation that day where someone may have helped themselves to their paddleboat to go out and fish. Or if they had any visitors from out of town?

In a small shallow lake like this, a paddleboat is perfect for fishing. And it was an overcast day, also good for fishing. Paddleboats usually have steering so it's very easy for one person to operate them without going in circles although it is a much slower ride obviously. I used to have one when I was younger. Took it out on our small lake quite often alone. Now in my case it was for suntanning but my brother was out in it alone all the time to fish.

MOO

 

[mnegri1973]

How many kids phone home to say i love you and miss you? With no other words? Unless shes been away from home for a while? JMO

My daughter is 16 and she will both send texts and call to say she misses me and her dad. So I don't think it odd or off that Elizabeth would call her parents like that.

Mel. ;-)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[CHERIE.T]

NG transcript:

GRACE: Did Lyric have a cell phone?

COOK-MORRISSEY: She has a cell phone that was at my mother`s, so she didn`t have one on her, no.

Note: "was at my mothers". I bet police have it now for sure.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ng.01.html

:seeya: Great find Think.

 

[Jax49]

Yes for sure! Just the other day I had someone (early 60s in age) ask if I'd heard about the "accident up your street where the kids got hit" and I was surprised I didn't know what she was talking about. Found out the "kids" were 21 and 23... who sadly LOOK like kids to me now but I don't call them that. Probably will when I'm in my 60s though. It freaked me out the first time highschoolers started looking like "little kids" to me.

OT: I am in my sixties, and I want to know when they lowered the driving age to 10. LOL.

 

[SapphireSteel]

You make a good point. My first thought on this theory was remembering that I was taught "puppy" or "kitten" along with "candy" might be used to lure me as a kid. and if anyone asked me about those, run! Second thought was unfortunately that with the animals especially, it probably would've worked when I was a kid even though I knew better. (heck might even work on a lot of adults). I can see hooking the leash and trying to run away if I was worried but not just running and leaving a 'defenseless' puppy on the trail.

Basically once we've agreed they've been abducted we can cut it into two options.

Option one - the girls knew the perp and went willingly, for whatever reason.

Option two - the girls were taken against their will.

Talking about puppies and candy is like saying "what type of plane was it that went through tower one?" Interesting detail if you're an enthusiast, but no real bearing on the actual tragedy itself.

Personally I believe we are dealing with an Option one situation. I feel that the older of the two, Lyric, is most likely to have first made contact somehow with a special "friend" and that this particular bike ride was some sort of a mission. They had to nag to be allowed to go in the first place, as they were wanted home. Grandma said "yes but only a short ride" which is why I believe they were pretty much expected home by 1. Grandma was really alarmed by 1.30, but she'd last seen them at 12.15.

So, assuming the girls didn't want to upset grandma (and there's no reason to think they did) I believe that they went out for a very quick mission and were expecting to be back in 15 -30 minutes. They didn't take money or cells or drinks. So that tells me that whatever happened, happened between 12.15 and 1pm.

We can narrow it down even further. Ted GamerDinger, witness, says he passed by the bikes at 12.20. Locals, or others who have a google map - is this feasable to have got from grandmas house to the lake at 12.20? I think they must've been hoofing it because I believe they were recorded on camera at 12.15 too, by a store not too far from the lake?

I personally think Mr Gamerdinger has his times wrong, and he saw the bikes LATER than he thinks. (or he has some other reason for saying this...I'm a cynic ok). So for now, I'll put that aside.

So I'm thinking Elizabeth at least, had a meeting arranged at 12.30 at the lake. They were taken 12.45 at the latest.

It's a very tight time frame. Someone had to have seen something. Where are the witnesses????? I'm pretty well convinced that paddleboatperson didn't exist.

 

[sarx]

It seems that a door to door of everyone within the biking distance from their home, along the usual route, and the lake should have been checked.

Unless they know a whole lot more than we do...

 

[nikb]

I’m going to get a T-shirt made up that says: Your phone is ringing, your text message thingy is dinging away and your left-turn signal has been clicking for the past 12 miles, honey bunch.

Drew looks totally done in, I can understand how he might have missed an old or archived voice message.

Or one that never even showed a notification on his phone? That's happened to me quite a few times... notice for a new call/VM shows up and I go to check it only to find out there are other VMs I never heard or even knew about.

 

[GrainneDhu]

What about the young boy fishing in Meyers lake has he been questioned.? I would check the house of the Guy that found the bikes . The whole things sounds like a set up .I think the girls went there to met someone they knew or off the internet . Lyric tried to runaway a few days before she went missing . ??? MHO

The guy who found the bikes was a volunteer firefighter who had been called out specifically to help with the search. A very common practice in small towns.

In my small town, the volunteer fire department is also the ambulance service.

I suppose he could have manipulated things to get assigned to that particular place to search but that just seems farfetched to me.

 

[GGE]

I am a little alarmed that the paddleboat person has not come forth in 12 days with this being such a big case there.

Why wouldnt they?

I noticed in the GMA video that the lake is sort of narrow and it wouldnt take that long to get to shore.

It seems now that LE is very interested in finding this person.

IMO

BBM - Yeah, 12 days would be a really long time to take to get to shore.

:waitasec:

:crazy:

 

[GrainneDhu]

I clean forgot to pay my car rego.

I was one day over, got pulled, ticketed, forgot about it.

Imagine my horror when I requested a National Police Clearance Certificate and there in black and white, under "criminal convictions" was "driving while unregistered".

Apparently I am now a criminal.

:jail:

Well, you crook, you better hope you're never family of a victim who gets discussed on WS because all possible aspects of that conviction will be snarked over. What were you trying to conceal? Does this mean you try to hide other things?

I wish I could say I was 100% joking but...

 

[nikb]

Okay. This is the last straw for me. Can someone, anyone provide a reason, any plausible reason why the message was on his phone for 9 days before he listened to it? I'm sure police had their phones for a certain period, but seriously, I know that certain period at best was hours after he found out she was missing. Damn, I hope there hasn't been any knocks on the door that they haven't answered, or mysterious unopened letters they have received during this same time period. I am at a loss!!!!!

Sorry if this is a repeat as I'm catching up but yes.... completely jacked up phone and/or voicemail system would be an easy explanation. Way too often I don't even know I HAVE a voicemail until I decide to randomly check it.

 

[SapphireSteel]

It seems that a door to door of everyone within the biking distance from their home, along the usual route, and the lake should have been checked.

How big is the local police force? Plus, how do you know they haven't? How many times would they have to go through before they found every one actually home, how many court orders do they have to get to force the unwilling to cooperate?

Seriously, would they actually have the physical manpower to do this, check all RSO's, search trash, drain lakes, all within 48 hours? Or a week? Or even two?

I know they haven't even finished with the town trash yet.

I really think people underestimate the restrictions these small towns work with, especially manpower/budget wise.

I'm sorry I don't mean to bash you...sadly I am just all too aware of the budgetary and political costs of anything public officials do.

If the girls end up being found alive and well in West Virginia, everyone will say "how come they didn't check the relatives in West Virginia? That would be the first thing I'd do". If you get my drift.

I am 200% sure they are doing every thing in their power. They have little girls of their own you know. Often we read that some of these LE professionals never recover emotionally from failing in cases like these.

Hindsight is 20/20. I lost a $50 in my house yesterday, I had workmen here so they could've taken it, every piece of carp I went through looking for it just seemed to frustrate me more and more. I knew it was here...but where? I couldn't even remember exactly where I'd last seen it...plus, I had the added niggle that maybe one of the workmen (who were moving furniture in the room I'd lost it) had stolen it. All day I searched for that money, it drove me insane. I found it, but I tell you the frustration of looking for something you KNOW should be there, but isnt, and could actually be ANYWHERE, was pretty unpleasant. I can't imagine how you'd feel if it was two helpless little girls you were looking for.

 

[nikb]

It's a pontoon paddle boat. Same size as a paddle boat, just that it looks like a miniature pontoon but instead of a deck, it has a little bench to sit on and the peddles.

Information about the pontoon paddle boat.

http://www.aquacycleusa.com/original.asp

Wow... I had no idea until now there were this many types of "paddle boats"! No wonder there's confusion.

 

[CHERIE.T]

It seems that a door to door of everyone within the biking distance from their home, along the usual route, and the lake should have been checked.

Thanks th. That was my next question.
Were door to door interviews done?
Were all paddle boat owners interviewed?

 

[Wishbone]

Unless they know a whole lot more than we do...

This is just guessing on my part, but it seems LE is still making the LAKE the focus. Maybe, just maybe the dogs tracked the girls to the edge of the lake only and NOT at all in the direction of the woods or elsewhere on the trail. Draining the lake turns up nothing so now we are onto a paddleboat because the scent trail ends at the lake?

 

[GrainneDhu]

Yes for sure! Just the other day I had someone (early 60s in age) ask if I'd heard about the "accident up your street where the kids got hit" and I was surprised I didn't know what she was talking about. Found out the "kids" were 21 and 23... who sadly LOOK like kids to me now but I don't call them that. Probably will when I'm in my 60s though. It freaked me out the first time highschoolers started looking like "little kids" to me.

Hey, the first time I met my new dentist, I wanted to ID him to make sure he was old enough to drink in bars!

 

[sarx]

Hopping from device to device. Does anyone have quick access to the coords for this case? or the link for the map? TIA.

 

[GGE]

Still six pages behind and working to catch up, so forgive me if someone else has already suggested this line of thinking re: paddleboater --

You guys know that dirt path that Ollipop didn't even realize was there, though he lives right nearby, which is off Arbutus and can't be seen from the road nor the trail?

Ok, well suppose someone told LE that a vehicle or person was seen in that area that day, and LE asked the person wth they were doing there, and the person responded that they were unloading/launching a paddleboat.

Then LE would be trying to verify whether anyone actually saw said paddleboat there that day.

Yes, it's a cruddy lie for a perp to tell, but if a perp were, say, on drugs *coughmeth* or something perhaps they'd not be thinking too well when giving their excuse.


I know this sounds far-fetched, but the important thing to take from this post is the idea that perhaps instead of someone telling LE they SAW a paddleboat and LE trying to verify the SIGHTING, it could be that someone told LE they were USING a paddleboat that day, and LE is trying to verify this excuse.


------

Personally, I don't think they ever made it to the lake. And I am still very concerned about what appears to be a man standing between two buildings in the security camera footage of the girls on their bikes behind the big&tall store. I think THAT is where to presume the girls were last seen, and THAT is where to start looking from.

(My gut also says parents aren't involved, though their lifestyle could have something to do with it.. but murphy's law would say NEITHER has anything to do with it, and this was more random.)

IMHO, of course.