IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #8

[writerranger]

If the girls were kidnapped on the spot and the bikes were re-arranged from on the path (12:20) to leaning against the fence (4:00), and no officer or resident has come forward claiming to have moved the bikes, then the perp must have done it later or they are different bikes.

Or...(my first post, btw)...somebody in LE screwed up and they don't want to be held accountable for an egregious and inexcusable error. Basic: don't touch, move or alter possible evidence in any way. Then, when they realized they did make a huge mistake, they wiped the evidence of their error clean while also wiping away possible real evidence.

Not that this actually happened, but...

This has been bothering me since I first heard this problem with timeline and location of the bicycles. It just didn't feel right. I believe my scenario may explain it. It's just that - a scenario and possibility. That's all.

Thanks to so many, who obviously devote much time, for being here at this forum and fighting for those who have no voice. It's quite admirable. I hope that maybe I can contribute in some small way along the journey.

 

[katydid23]

Or...(my first post, btw)...somebody in LE screwed up and they don't want to be held accountable for an egregious and inexcusable error. Basic: don't touch, move or alter possible evidence in any way. Then, when they realized they did make a huge mistake, they wiped the evidence of their error clean while also wiping away possible real evidence.

Not that this actually happened, but...

This has been bothering me since I first heard this problem with timeline and location of the bicycles. It just didn't feel right. I believe my scenario may explain it. It's just that - a scenario and possibility. That's all.

Thanks to so many, who obviously devote much time, for being here at this forum and fighting for those who have no voice. It's quite admirable. I hope that maybe I can contribute in some small way along the way.

Very good first post. I agree with the possible scenario. :welcome::fireworks:

 

[otto]

It is most interesting Otto that LE does not refer to the 12:20 time in their timeline and, in fact, the spokesman said during the presser when asked about that person who allegedly claimed to have swerved around the bikes, responded that he was unaware of that person. That is what strikes me most about that timeline. MOO

Good to know. If we omit the swerving cyclist's tip, then we have a window of time between 12:15 and 4:00 that the bikes could have been left, or placed, there. Given the 5-12 minute window of time associated with the swerving cyclist tip, if the girls were kidnapped on the spot, then they were still in the area at the same time as the swerving cyclist. By excluding the swerving cyclist tip and opening up the window of time, it's also possible that the bikes were left there by the perp and the girls were never in the area.

It sounds like police are coming up with dead ends. Nothing in the lake, nothing in the surrounding area, nothing to go on in the area, so they widen the possibilities to include that the bikes could have been left there later.

 

[Sunlight]

Or... they weren't seen at all at 12:20, and the bikes were found as they were found at 3:58 and no one, other than the abductor(s) knows what went on between 12:15 when the video shows them on their bikes and when they were found by the firefighter at 3:58. MOO (this was response to writerranger)

 

[otto]

EXACTLY. Which is why I was saying it was such a narrow, narrow timeline.
Almost too narrow, imo. It is hard to believe a random perp would luck into a kidnapping within minutes like this.

Makes me think they were being watched/stalked.

I don't think that 5-12 minutes is enough time for someone to kidnap the girls more than a mile away, load up their bikes, drive down a secluded lane, toss the bikes and purse/cell over the fence, subdue an 8 and 10 year old and simply vanish. Even kidnapping them on the spot with a swerving cyclist on the path at the same time is pretty risky.

I'm inclined to think that the bikes were left there at a later time.

 

[Sunlight]

Nothing rings really true at this time. MOO

 

[Sunlight]

I don't think that 5-12 minutes is enough time for someone to kidnap the girls more than a mile away, load up their bikes, drive down a secluded lane, toss the bikes and purse/cell over the fence, subdue an 8 and 10 year old and simply vanish. Even kidnapping them on the spot with a swerving cyclist on the path at the same time is pretty risky.

I'm inclined to think that the bikes were left there at a later time.

I agree. MOO

 

[otto]

Quite possible.

The only people who can confirm whose bikes they are, is the family.

Lyrics bag and phone was there too though, and LE picked up their scent so the likliehood is, it is their bikes, and they were there.

Don't forget everyone was asked if they saw two girls ON BIKES. If someone who knew they were going to the lake had already planned to intercept them, on foot, and walk away with them, or steer them to a car pulled over on the highway, exactly how long would it take?

A minute, if they went willingly...especially if they were told to hurry by someone they knew and trusted.

:moo:

No one pulled over on the highway. The road was under construction so there were numberous construction crew and reduced speed, single lane traffic. Someone could have lured them to the lake, but if the cyclist came by at the same time, within minutes, of when the girls were there, why didn't he see anything? The bag was tossed toward the lake, so they should have been visible through the fence. Steering them to a car meant them willingly leaving their bikes on the path and walking down the path to a trail and a vehicle through the woods. Even a stranger on the path would have needed a few moments to subdue two girls and not be seen by the cyclist.

Either the 12:20 sighting is not a correct tip, or he rode his bike through the middle of a kidnapping in progress - but saw nothing except a bike on the path. Was he wearing headphones, a bike helmut and sunglasses?

 

[otto]

Or...(my first post, btw)...somebody in LE screwed up and they don't want to be held accountable for an egregious and inexcusable error. Basic: don't touch, move or alter possible evidence in any way. Then, when they realized they did make a huge mistake, they wiped the evidence of their error clean while also wiping away possible real evidence.

Not that this actually happened, but...

This has been bothering me since I first heard this problem with timeline and location of the bicycles. It just didn't feel right. I believe my scenario may explain it. It's just that - a scenario and possibility. That's all.

Thanks to so many, who obviously devote much time, for being here at this forum and fighting for those who have no voice. It's quite admirable. I hope that maybe I can contribute in some small way along the journey.

If an officer moved a bike, there really isn't any reason not to admit it. It's a bike, so any evidence on the bike is more important than where the bike was lying. An officer that moves a bike would photograph and diagram where it was when found, but wiping prints from a bike while surrounded by officers ... that doesn't sound likely. Police have said that the bikes were leaning against the fence, so it makes sense to accept that this is how they were found. There's no reason for police to misinform the public about that.

 

[GateKeeper]

I have a theory that 2 somebodys might have done something that somebody is helping somebody else find out information from one somebody to find out where 2 somebodys are. Academy award stuff and wires. MOO

~I gotta say... this is a groovy post~

IMO

 

[SapphireSteel]

No one pulled over on the highway. The road was under construction so there were numberous construction crew and reduced speed, single lane traffic. Someone could have lured them to the lake, but if the cyclist came by at the same time, within minutes, of when the girls were there, why didn't he see anything? The bag was tossed toward the lake, so they should have been visible through the fence. Steering them to a car meant them willingly leaving their bikes on the path and walking down the path to a trail and a vehicle through the woods. Even a stranger on the path would have needed a few moments to subdue two girls and not be seen by the cyclist.

Either the 12:20 sighting is not a correct tip, or he rode his bike through the middle of a kidnapping in progress - but saw nothing except a bike on the path. Was he wearing headphones, a bike helmut and sunglasses?

TG's tip is considered valid by LE, I am trying to find the link to confirm but still can't. Someone may come along and help me but I'll keep trying.

I don't think the girls necessarily made it to the park. Unfortunately I can see just how quickly and easily it could've been done. The abduction was definitely done by more than one person, possibly three IMO.

I believe the girls were abducted somewhere between the camera and the lake. I believe they were called over by someone they knew and trusted, who said, leave the bikes with x and y, they'll take them home for you, quick, we have to go, hop in the car.

I believe x and y, who may well have been underaged accomplices, then biked off to the pre-arranged fake "abduction" spot that had been mapped out much earlier, dumped the bikes and bag as planned, and walked away.

Meanwhile the girls were being driven out of town, thinking they were being rushed off to visit a sick relative/go to a surprise party/whatever.

 

[SapphireSteel]

A quote from Misty that chills me to my core -

"We really looked forward to what they had to offer in their future, and the life that God had for them."

I found myself wondering exactly when she'd had time to get her nails done.

Moms of missing Iowa girls speak to CNN's Anderson Cooper - YouTube


:maddening:

:moo:

 

[otto]

TG's tip is considered valid by LE, I am trying to find the link to confirm but still can't. Someone may come along and help me but I'll keep trying.

I don't think the girls necessarily made it to the park. Unfortunately I can see just how quickly and easily it could've been done. The abduction was definitely done by more than one person, possibly three IMO.

I believe the girls were abducted somewhere between the camera and the lake. I believe they were called over by someone they knew and trusted, who said, leave the bikes with x and y, they'll take them home for you, quick, we have to go, hop in the car.

I believe x and y, who may well have been underaged accomplices, then biked off to the pre-arranged fake "abduction" spot that had been mapped out much earlier, dumped the bikes and bag as planned, and walked away.

Meanwhile the girls were being driven out of town, thinking they were being rushed off to visit a sick relative/go to a surprise party/whatever.

If the cyclist's tip is valid and the girls never made it to the park, then you have to assume that this was a highly organized kidnapping with two perps plus two youths with nothing in it for them. If two youths rode the bikes to the SE tip of Meyers Lake and dumped the bikes, only to learn that two young girls had been kidnapped, why would they remain silent? How could all of this happen within 5 - 12 minutes?

If the girls were kidnapped at the lake, then we have to assume that the girls rode their bikes to the lake but miraculously a cyclist saw nothing even though the timing suggests that they would have been at the SE tip of Meyers Lake at the same time.

 

[otto]

A quote from Misty that chills me to my core -

"We really looked forward to what they had to offer in their future, and the life that God had for them."

I found myself wondering exactly when she'd had time to get her nails done.


:maddening:

:moo:

Thanks ... Tammy was definitely feeding Misty words, but Misty seemed on the verge of losing it when she really thought about what they were like ... she reverted to talking about God ... she strikes me as being in survival mode.

I didn't notice her nails. Was there something special about Misty's nails? I wonder what she does with each minute of each day not knowing where her 10 year old daughter is, not knowing what has happened to her.

 

[nikb]

<snipped for space> If the girls were kidnapped at the lake, then we have to assume that the girls rode their bikes to the lake but miraculously a cyclist saw nothing even though the timing suggests that they would have been at the SE tip of Meyers Lake at the same time.

But he also wasn't LOOKING for anything except maybe objects in his path. If he heard screaming or something I would think he would've looked around, but he didn't really have any reason to as far as I can tell.

 

[SapphireSteel]

But he also wasn't LOOKING for anything except maybe objects in his path. If he heard screaming or something I would think he would've looked around, but he didn't really have any reason to as far as I can tell.

I believe he regularly rides around that lake as part of an exercise routine.

I'm surprised he didn't actually see the wheels spinning.

We had a boy kidnapped here in Australia, Daniel Morcombe. One minute he was standing at the side of a busy highway, LITERALLY 2 minutes later he was gone.

And yes, people saw something. The public wasn't notified of this until much, much later, for whatever reason.

But that's how quickly and quietly it can happen.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Thanks ... Tammy was definitely feeding Misty words, but Misty seemed on the verge of losing it when she really thought about what they were like ... she reverted to talking about God ... she strikes me as being in survival mode.

I didn't notice her nails. Was there something special about Misty's nails? I wonder what she does with each minute of each day not knowing where her 10 year old daughter is, not knowing what has happened to her.

What I was referring to was Misty's use of past tense when referring to the girls.

She was also smiling.

Does that not strike you as odd? :doh:

She could be out searching for her girls during the day but from the state of her nails I would doubt it.

:moo:

 

[otto]

But he also wasn't LOOKING for anything except maybe objects in his path. If he heard screaming or something I would think he would've looked around, but he didn't really have any reason to as far as I can tell.

Any cyclist that has to swerve because of obstacles in the path is going to have a good look around to see who left the obstacle in the path ... especially since it was hazardous. If the girls arrived there moments before the cyclist and Elizabeth's bag was tossed over the fence towards the lake, that suggests the girls were headed towards the lake. It's also possible that a perp was walking the girls down the path to the end of the double fence, but if the cyclist didn't see them, that would even further restrict the timeline.

The girls were seen at 12:15, they rode their bikes a distance of over one mile across at least one busy road to a secluded area at the SE tip of Meyers Lake, they leaned their bikes against the fence or tossed them onto the path, they were dragged or lured to the end of the double fence area, the cyclist who was on that part of the path at 12:27-ish saw nothing except bikes that were arranged differently than how the girl's bikes were found.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Any cyclist that has to swerve because of obstacles in the path is going to have a good look around to see who left the obstacle in the path ... especially since it was hazardous. If the girls arrived there moments before the cyclist and Elizabeth's bag was tossed over the fence towards the lake, that suggests the girls were headed towards the lake. It's also possible that a perp was walking the girls down the path to the end of the double fence, but if the cyclist didn't see them, that would even further restrict the timeline.

The girls were seen at 12:15, they rode their bikes a distance of over one mile across at least one busy road to a secluded area at the SE tip of Meyers Lake, they leaned their bikes against the fence or tossed them onto the path, they were dragged or lured to the end of the double fence area, the cyclist who was on that part of the path at 12:27-ish saw nothing except bikes that were arranged differently than how the girl's bikes were found.

What if they were abducted just after 12.15, say 12.17? They never got to the park at all, their bikes did? Entirely possible by car with more than one abductor.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Any cyclist that has to swerve because of obstacles in the path is going to have a good look around to see who left the obstacle in the path ... especially since it was hazardous. If the girls arrived there moments before the cyclist and Elizabeth's bag was tossed over the fence towards the lake, that suggests the girls were headed towards the lake. It's also possible that a perp was walking the girls down the path to the end of the double fence, but if the cyclist didn't see them, that would even further restrict the timeline.

The girls were seen at 12:15, they rode their bikes a distance of over one mile across at least one busy road to a secluded area at the SE tip of Meyers Lake, they leaned their bikes against the fence or tossed them onto the path, they were dragged or lured to the end of the double fence area, the cyclist who was on that part of the path at 12:27-ish saw nothing except bikes that were arranged differently than how the girl's bikes were found.

I had not read that, can you please post a link?

tia.