IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #8

[Pensfan]

I did not see any place in the article where it was said that JC overdosed on prescription drugs. It also does not say that he attempted suicide. Overdosing is not typically a suicide attempt, but usually accidental.

For him and his girlfriend to both overdose, it sounds to me like they were doing heroin. If it was heroin, its possible that they were not regular users, or they were given a very strong batch, or possibly given a bad batch(meaning spiked with something). An unfamiliar environment will sometimes result in overdose. The body typically builds up a tolerance to drugs, by secreting certain chemicals to counteract the effect of the drugs. One way it does this is through recognition of certain environmental cues that are recognized by the brain as being associated with the drug use. It is my understanding that people overdose in hotel rooms and other unfamiliar surroundings for this reason.

If they were given a bad batch of heroin, and they are regular users, that would be very interesting.

Overdose has a different meaning to many people. She may not have overdosed (taken enough of a substance to warrant the ER staff to fear for her internal organs' functioning/safety or cause respiratory depression).

There are different types of tolerance: behavioral/learned and pharmacokinetic

Pharmacokinetic tolerance leads the user to increasing the dose of his/her drug of choice because they can no longer feel the desired effect of the drug.

Pharmacokinetic tolerance occurs when the user's liver begins an increased rate of metabolism of the drug in the user over time. This happens with amphetamines as well as opioids and benzos.

Behavioral/learned tolerance is when someone learns the skills to function in a mild to moderate intoxicated/drug altered state

 

[Jax49]

1. I wish I would hear from LE WHY they believe those spotted on bikes are the girls.
2. I would like to hear more about the incident prior to the abduction where Lyric and a cousin disappeared for a bit...Like...did police actually come to the house and see if the girls were ok?
3. I would like to know when a NON-family member saw the girls last other than the grainy video and the man watering lawn.
4. I also would like to hear LE give a more detail desciption of the clothes they were wearing and the bikes.

BBM

I don't have the link handy (will look in a bit), but IIRC the store owner when interviewed indicated they were the only cyclists to ride by that day (that is, the only ones caught on that video).Does that seem possible? No other kids around?

http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Surv...nown-Sighting-of-Missing-Girls-163897346.html

 

[Confusion]

This isn't anything helpful, but I have to say it. The more I read about this family and their problems, the less dysfunctional my own family seems. Even if some member/s of the family were involved, there's no way I believe they all were. I can't imagine how the innocent members of the family (which could be all of them) have to be struggling to keep it together when they keep getting hit with more trouble, and fewer and fewer promising leads.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I remember getting all suspicious of Susan Smith when she said something along the lines of "I can't even eat or sleep"...and I thought that was a strange thing for someone to say who had missing kids as if that would be somehow surprising...the way she said it got my attention....maybe because she said "even" as I recall...I may be remembering it wrong. Not being able to eat or sleep would be the normal reaction I would imagine, whatever normal is.... MOO

I never believed that woman from minute one when she first spokeout. It was so obvious to me and my hubby that she was lying her a** off. We both looked at each other the very first day of her first media stunt and said "omg, she has murdered her little boys.'

But I dont equate what Ms Cook said with what Susan Smith said. SS came right out on day one lying her butt off. I can understand with no sighting of the children for two weeks now it would make someone feel more and more hopeless as each day passes and cause them to be unable to sleep and eat.

IMO

 

[Athena12]

According to this article, JC & girlfriend overdosed on "medication". I would guess that means prescription medication & not something like heroin or meth.

http://http://www.kgan.com/shared/newsroom/top_stories/videos/kgan_vid_12134.shtml

 

[IAM]

Are you theorizing they actually went missing the first time and never reappeared..that the rest is made up or staged?

Heather would have had a cow if that were the case....hmmm

I am trying to fill in some gaps and I have a couple of theories. I also had a very scary thought last night as I looked over some information and lack thereof. I generally take the shortest and most logical route when trying to make sense of things. It is hard in this case with such a lack of information released by LE. I mean the clothing and description of bikes is extremly important when asking people to look for the girls. I just can't wrap my head around why we are not given this bit of info. The description of the bikes are not even on the missing posters. WHY? Yes, they have the bikes, but aren't they asking who might have seen the girls on these bikes? Wouldn't the description of the bikes be vital? Why would the family not add the description of the bikes on the missing posters?

 

[Marilynilpa]

According to this article, JC & girlfriend overdosed on "medication". I would guess that means prescription medication & not something like heroin or meth.

http://http://www.kgan.com/shared/newsroom/top_stories/videos/kgan_vid_12134.shtml

Which I think was the point Grandma was trying to make when she said the OD wasn't due to weed, meth or cocaine, IMO.

 

[jacy]

I know it's ridiculous, but the last episode of the most recent season of Californication keeps coming to mind. The ex, the overdoses.

Not that the realities we know up to this point are any more believable.

 

[Pensfan]

Where is Jeramia's personal apartment? Is it near the lake? Does he have a legitimate job in the daytime? Was he at work when the girls disappeared? Did he help with the initial search for the girls?

 

[nmr]

I am trying to fill in some gaps and I have a couple of theories. I also had a very scary thought last night as I looked over some information and lack thereof. I generally take the shortest and most logical route when trying to make sense of things. It is hard in this case with such a lack of information released by LE. I mean the clothing and description of bikes is extremly important when asking people to look for the girls. I just can't wrap my head around why we are not given this bit of info. The description of the bikes are not even on the missing posters. WHY? Yes, they have the bikes, but aren't they asking who might have seen the girls on these bikes? Wouldn't the description of the bikes be vital? Why would the family not add the description of the bikes on the missing posters?

In an earlier post, someone suggested that they may not be releasing the description of the bikes because if someone calls in with a tip, they can ask them to describe the bikes to verify that they are talking about the correct bikes. It's just a quick way to ensure the validity of the tips. JMO.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

If those girls were allegedly his "prized possessions"....then, he must have been awfully involved with them or just very protective of them. Hard to know what that really means. He's taking it hard...sort of like Caylee's gpa almost. Interesting. Why would one attempt to off oneself, if one doesn't know where your prized possessions are, because if they show up safe, then your offing yourself over it is sort of...strange. MOO

Sometimes some people can get to a point where they think their missing loved ones are never coming back and cant see their lives without the ones who are missing.

It does sound like this uncle was very involved in the girls lives and loves them tremendously.

That is the sad part about some of these kind of cases. While the parent or parents may look like they dont care about their missing child there are always ones in the family that loved them dearly and is completely devastated.

IMO

 

[Marilynilpa]

According to this article, JC & girlfriend overdosed on "medication". I would guess that means prescription medication & not something like heroin or meth.

http://http://www.kgan.com/shared/newsroom/top_stories/videos/kgan_vid_12134.shtml

Which I think was the point Grandma was trying to make when she said the OD wasn't due to weed, meth or cocaine, IMO.

 

[Sunlight]

I am trying to fill in some gaps and I have a couple of theories. I also had a very scary thought last night as I looked over some information and lack thereof. I generally take the shortest and most logical route when trying to make sense of things. It is hard in this case with such a lack of information released by LE. I mean the clothing and description of bikes is extremly important when asking people to look for the girls. I just can't wrap my head around why we are not given this bit of info. The description of the bikes are not even on the missing posters. WHY? Yes, they have the bikes, but aren't they asking who might have seen the girls on these bikes? Wouldn't the description of the bikes be vital? Why would the family not add the description of the bikes on the missing posters?

The only thing I can think of is that if the description of the bikes and exact clothing were released, a perp could make up having seen them elsewhere using that description and throw off the trail. Moo

 

[IAM]

Are you theorizing they actually went missing the first time and never reappeared..that the rest is made up or staged?

Heather would have had a cow if that were the case....hmmm

Respectfully,But, we really don't know this as fact, do we? This is your opinion of her and you most likely do not know her personally. What I am saying is a possible scenario could include family members if they had group guilt over something that may have happened with/to the girls. I cannot get over the unlikelihood that the same girl (Lyric) would "disappear" for a time just 4 days prior. Without much else to go on, I am going by statistics.

 

[Ollipop]

On the way to work yesterday, I filled up at the Casey's on River Forest...clerk there and I chatted.

Several days ago, in the first week after the girls were missing, he'd mentioned that Misty had come in to apply for a job, and ended up working at another Casey's nearby...he thought it was the one in Elk Run...I still don't know, don't think it matters.

Then yesterday, he said the FBI had been in earlier in the day, and had gotten all the cash receipts for the last few weeks.

 

[Jax49]

http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Surv...nown-Sighting-of-Missing-Girls-163897346.html

snipped from link:

“They were the only two people to go by on bikes that day to my knowledge,” said Joe Pahl, who alerted police about the video July 16. “I’ve watched it.”

******
This is the link I promised earlier.

No other kids on bikes? Also, did they only pass the camera once that day? Sounds like it.

 

[HeavenLeigh]

http://www.kgan.com/shared/newsroom/top_stories/videos/kgan_vid_12134.shtml

Possessions?

Why did Granny feel the need to tell the newspaper that he didn't overdose on weed, meth, or cocaine? Maybe he was arrested for these substances in the past?

I could have sworn that Grandma was quoted as saying in one the earlier links "that JC had been battling substance abuse & was unable to eat or sleep since the disappearance of his nieces two weeks ago". It almost read like she was saying the girls disappearance was what caused the substance abuse.

I think enabling & denial gallops rapidly in this family as well.

Perhaps it was a misquote or the reporter worded it incorrectly. I have searched for the article to give the link but cannot find it. I deleted my cache this morning so I can't search in my history either. cguru:


ETA Looks like others caught it as well & the article has been changed & reworded.

 

[Sunlight]

Respectfully,But, we really don't know this as fact, do we? This is your opinion of her and you most likely do not know her personally. What I am saying is a possible scenario could include family members if they had group guilt over something that may have happened with/to the girls. I cannot get over the unlikelihood that the same girl (Lyric) would "disappear" for a time just 4 days prior. Without much else to go on, I am going by statistics.

I don't necessarily disagree with you at all...just poking holes...I've thought all along the two incidents could be related in some way...still do. I don't know how Heather would react...I also don't know where Elizabeth was that other day or with who..? Did the police ever verify their return the first day...i.e., both other set of cousins...or just one? Good question.

 

[Athena12]

1. I wish I would hear from LE WHY they believe those spotted on bikes are the girls.
2. I would like to hear more about the incident prior to the abduction where Lyric and a cousin disappeared for a bit...Like...did police actually come to the house and see if the girls were ok?
3. I would like to know when a NON-family member saw the girls last other than the grainy video and the man watering lawn.
4. I also would like to hear LE give a more detail desciption of the clothes they were wearing and the bikes.

In reference to #3, there was an article a few days ago about Elizabeth's softball team. IIRC, her teammates and/or coach said they had last seen Elizabeth at a softball game at 9:00 the night before she disappeared.

 

[Jules71]

Some people theorized if Dan is involved it could be to postpone his trial. And that has happened.