IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, W Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 - What happened? - #1

[julianne]

I don't think there is any relation between these newly released photos and the one that was found in a parking lot with the bound girl and boy.

Here is a link that shows that pic:

http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200301684W

Scroll down to the bottom of the page for the photo. For a while people thought the boy was Michael Henley, however his remains were found in 1990, I think? Also, some people thought that photo was staged and that it was a fake, however the general concensus is that it is real, based on the look of sheer terror in the boys eyes.

In the newly released photos that were sent to Noreen Gosch, in the photo of the 3----I think the person on the left looks more like a girl to me, instead of a boy.

 

[laini]

After looking at both photos (the Florida ones and these recent ones), they both seem to be on a type of "bed" with the head a little elevated. Not that that means they are related.

On the Noreen Gosch photos thread on crimes, someone said they thought it looked liek the inside of a camper. I thougth it looked like a room.

So how does someone prove or disprove a child sex slave auction story. I can't bleieve there would be evidence anywhere, especially these days with the internet, if it were true. Nobody speaking after all these years.

 

[julianne]

If I remember right, back when this photo surfaced in a parking lot in Florida, it immediately caused alarm and people were interviewed. I believe that some people THOUGHT there was a white van parked in or near the spot that the photo was found in.

I don't think they are related to these recent photos---mostly because black or dark tape is used over their mouths in the photo found in Florida, and white flexicuffs, or plastic, or whatever it is, is used in the photo of the 3 sent to Noreen Gosch.

 

[michelle]

I don't think there is any relation between these newly released photos and the one that was found in a parking lot with the bound girl and boy.

Here is a link that shows that pic:

http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200301684W

Scroll down to the bottom of the page for the photo. For a while people thought the boy was Michael Henley, however his remains were found in 1990, I think? Also, some people thought that photo was staged and that it was a fake, however the general concensus is that it is real, based on the look of sheer terror in the boys eyes.

In the newly released photos that were sent to Noreen Gosch, in the photo of the 3----I think the person on the left looks more like a girl to me, instead of a boy.

I was looking for that photo the other day because I wanted to see if the boy in it resembled johnny. That photo gives me chills.

 

[gidget641]

Forgive me if this has been addressed but...

Where is this childs father? I know that his parents were married at the time of his disappearence. But where is he now? The reason I ask is that I seem to remember some speculation that he may have been involved somehow in Johnny's abduction. Now 24 years later the photo's just happen to appear on Noreens birthday?

Isn't it possible that the person who is screwing with this poor deluded woman is her ex-husband? (sorry I don't buy the government involvment, but I do believe that his mother honestly thinks that it happened)

Is there any information on how strong or weak the relationship was between them before the abduction? Just the act of deliving those photo's on her birthday to me says that the person wants to HURT her. They want that pain to be crippling. To me that says that the abduction had little to do with johnny but everything to do with hurting his mother.

 

[julianne]

I was looking for that photo the other day because I wanted to see if the boy in it resembled johnny. That photo gives me chills.

Ditto, Michelle. The look in the little boys eyes........He looks terrified beyond belief to me. Makes me both very sad, and very very angry.

 

[julianne]

Forgive me if this has been addressed but...

Where is this childs father? I know that his parents were married at the time of his disappearence. But where is he now? The reason I ask is that I seem to remember some speculation that he may have been involved somehow in Johnny's abduction. Now 24 years later the photo's just happen to appear on Noreens birthday?

Isn't it possible that the person who is screwing with this poor deluded woman is her ex-husband? (sorry I don't buy the government involvment, but I do believe that his mother honestly thinks that it happened)

Is there any information on how strong or weak the relationship was between them before the abduction? Just the act of deliving those photo's on her birthday to me says that the person wants to HURT her. They want that pain to be crippling. To me that says that the abduction had little to do with johnny but everything to do with hurting his mother.

Noreen & Johnny's Dad divorced in the early 90's. The abduction crushed their marriage. I don't believe that Noreen had any suspicion of her husband being involved, but I don't know for sure. I don't think he was ever a suspect, ALTHOUGH.....normally he went with Johnny every day on his paper route. On the day he was abducted, he didn't---I forget the reason why. I think he meant to catch up with him shortly after Johnny started his route, but by the time he did catch up, Johnny was already gone. He found his bag in the street, and I think his bike, too.

So many kids have been abducted while riding their bikes. I attended a presentation on how to keep your kids safe a few years ago. It was presented when a young girl in this area was kidnapped (still not found) while she was riding her bike. They stressed to all the children that if anyone ever tried to kidnap them while they were riding their bike, they should hold on to their bike as hard as they could and not let go (in addition to fighting and screaming) because it would very difficult for someone to get you and a bike in their car quickly. Although an adult can overpower a child quickly, hanging onto that bike for dear life just might give the kid the extra seconds needed to get attention or have the kidnapper give up.

 

[Pcarpent]

The original tragedy of this case has been infinitely compounded - and indeed tainted - by its transformation into an obsession of the satanic child abduction cult believers, who have a 25-plus year track record of warping reality to fit their beyond-the-pale clinical paranoia. I am extraordinarily skeptical that these photos depict actual foul play, the timing of their appearance, and the motives of those who sent them to poor Noreen Gosch. None of the boys even resembles Johnny Gosch, who was almost 13 when kidnapped, essentially a teenager (his last school photo, which is not the earlier one most familiar to the public, clearly shows his age - older and bigger than all the boys in the photos). I also question the timing with relation to the fraudulent JohBenet Ramsey confession and the media firestorm around it. Although the Gosch case has not been prominently in the media, over the last few years it has become more and more central to the deluded world of the government-satanic cult-conspiracy nuts. I think the photos were sent to Noreen by believers in this fantasy world, perhaps with a sincere belief that they depict Johnny. Of course they must be taken seriously and fully investigated, but just like the fraudulent JonBenet confessor, there are huge warning signs all over the place that a lot of people seem to be purposefully ignoring. The memory of Johnny Gosch, and the serious quest to find out what really happened to him, deserves so much better than this.

 

[txsvicki]

If I remember right, back when this photo surfaced in a parking lot in Florida, it immediately caused alarm and people were interviewed. I believe that some people THOUGHT there was a white van parked in or near the spot that the photo was found in.

I don't think they are related to these recent photos---mostly because black or dark tape is used over their mouths in the photo found in Florida, and white flexicuffs, or plastic, or whatever it is, is used in the photo of the 3 sent to Noreen Gosch.

I read that the FBI didn't think that the photo of the bound girl was really an abductee because her legs appeared to have been shaved. I thought that was really ridiculous because it did look exactly like Tara Calico and her mother also believed that it was her in the photo.

 

[julianne]

I read that the FBI didn't think that the photo of the bound girl was really an abductee because her legs appeared to have been shaved. I thought that was really ridiculous because it did look exactly like Tara Calico and her mother also believed that it was her in the photo.

WOW---Did they really think that? I agree that is totally ridiculous!!! I think it does look like Tara, too.

I certainly hope the FBI didn't cease their investigation into this just because they thought her legs appeared to have been shaved!! How could they know that? My hair color (natural color, anyway lol) is the same as Taras, yet the hair on my legs is so light and barely grows. It is completely unnoticeable to anyone but me---so I could go probably 2 months without shaving my legs, get my photo taken in the same position as the girl in the photo, and my legs would look exactly the same as hers. It's is very very slow growing, very fine, and very light.

Ha ha, not that you needed to know that, lol! Just saying what things may appear to be, may not always be the case, and my gams are proof of that!
.....now if only I could get my underarms to behave the same way....

 

[FourthBase]

I think that's going to be difficult, Fourth, due to this case being so old. Wasn't he kidnapped in 1973? The only way to corroborate it is probably via Whalen. It might be interesting to see if Whalen has a website because it sounds like he has some exposure to boys being kidnapped for sexual purposes. If so, he might have some good resources to check out.

There've got to be police reports or newspaper articles that mention Whalen's role in locating Bequette, if he actually did, right? I have a feeling that Whalen is dead by now, he'd be pretty old and private investigators probably don't have the longest lifespan.

 

[godzorphan]

I posted this on a different thread, I hope you don't mind me posting it on this one too:

I've hesitated posing here, but I just returned from a trip and learned of the photos. I spent a lot of time and traveled from Texas to Arizona, Colorado and Nebraska, and even to San Francisco to chase down and verify info on Johnny Gosch. Was able to view some of the case files on the Franklin case in my pursuit. This is all so painful. I just felt perhaps a few comments might be helpful.

1. The original tattoo was called the "rocking x" and was like a cattle brand that Johnny supposedly got at a transition house outside Colorado Springs. The tattoo in the b/w photo looks like a pentagram to me. Likely that one is with a marker; the brand they use is usually on the buttocks.

2. There is zero question in my mind that Johnny was taken by a very well-moneyed pedo organization. And after two decades of work researching and tracking down the leads I was given, there is very little question that the Franklin cover-up story is accurate and true.

3. The insinuation of Ted Gunderson into all this was very unfortunate. I met Ted and did a show with him years ago. I don't know what happened, but he went so far out in left field that he ruined the credibility of our causes everywhere he went. I had been in contact with Noreen until Ted was on the scene, then she cut all contact. I can only surmise that she was told I was "one of them". He's used so many women and bled them dry financially, that Noreen is just another one. It makes me mad, because there are those of us who would do just about anything to bring justice to these monsters.

4. I read some postings about Johnny, that if he really did show up to see his mom a few years ago, why didn't he go to the authorities, FBI etc? Well, nothing personal, but a lot of my friends and I refer to the FBI as "friendly but ignorant" because their track record on these things is dismal. In addition, if there is a hint of occult, they call in S/A Kenneth Lanning who claims he's NEVER seen any evidence of satanic crime, not one hair, not one drop of blood. I have enough case evidence to fill a file cabinet; what's up with that? Plain ignorance? I hope so. He sure has a way of moving in on occult related pedo cases and SHUTTING THEM DOWN. (Search Pontchatoula, LA satanic church case - he managed to get that one quashed.) Johnny would have no reason to go to an agency he knew would probably do nothing.

In addition, if you do a little study of victimology, you'd realize that he's taken all the guilt, and after they apparently punked him out and turned him into a sex toy, eventually he became a "mule" - used to procure OTHER kids. You think he'd ever feel like he could come home without being seen as a monster himself? Try to put yourself in his place.

5. The dark areas around the boy's eyes - could it be just swollen from excessive crying?

This is numbing even to write about. The pictures were devastating to see, even if they are NOT him - and I think they are. In any event, barring them being doctored, it is a grim reminder that children ARE taken; they ARE being used as sex slaves; child and child trading IS an over 15 bil a year industry; over 500,000 NEW photos of children & teens porographically used each year; who are they? Where are they? How do we start to realistically, as Andrew Vachss says, "pursue the beast"?

I keep looking at this development, right on the heels of this ridiculous John Mark Karr situation, and wonder if there's a bigger picture here. Why now? Why "new" developments on two of the most unsolved and heartbreaking cases out there, after all this time? Maybe nothing, but I keep thinking there's something we're missing here. Is there a message? Is this all a smokescreen? Any ideas, I'm definitely listening.

Either way, Johnny belongs to all of us. God be with him wherever he is.

 

[FourthBase]

So how does someone prove or disprove a child sex slave auction story. I can't bleieve there would be evidence anywhere, especially these days with the internet, if it were true. Nobody speaking after all these years.

I would imagine that there are still some heinous underground phenomena that have not seen the light of day online.

 

[julianne]

I keep looking at this development, right on the heels of this ridiculous John Mark Karr situation, and wonder if there's a bigger picture here. Why now? Why "new" developments on two of the most unsolved and heartbreaking cases out there, after all this time? Maybe nothing, but I keep thinking there's something we're missing here. Is there a message? Is this all a smokescreen? Any ideas, I'm definitely listening.

Either way, Johnny belongs to all of us. God be with him wherever he is.

Great post, godzorphan! Welcome to Websleuths I've been wondering "why now" also, and I do think it's highly plausible that we are all missing something here, but I have no idea what.

You've done alot of traveling for information on this case? Is this for a hobby or your profession??

 

[gidget641]

Noreen & Johnny's Dad divorced in the early 90's.

I understand that julianne, but my question is where is he NOW? Why isn't he screaming at the top of his lungs for someone to find out what happened to his son? What is his veiw on his ex wife's theory on the abduction? On her claim that he came to visit in 1997? when was the last time he spoke out on the case? Does he believe that the pictures are of johnny?

 

[HeartofTexas]

I can't welcome you enough to WS, Godzorphan. Thank you for your input.

I've done an hour or two (ha!) of research into the Franklin Cover-up, Johnny Gosch, etc. myself and reached the same conclusions you did. With the advent of the internet, it's actually quite easy to do if you just keep following each trail where it leads you. Unfortunately, after you've followed so many trails and seen so much evidence that all points to the same truth, you find yourself getting dizzy with knowledge that nobody, and I mean nobody, wants to hear. People say "conspiracy theorist" to anyone who dares utter anything about this. IMO, all of the facts I uncovered were heartbreaking and left me reeling with information I didn't have a clue what to do with. Whatever this is, it's too big to fight on your own. That much I know.

For anyone who might be interested, this website shows part of the story on the government's involvement with pedophilia as it appeared on the front page of the Washington Times back in (I believe) 1989. It appeared one day and never appeared again. I believe the entire article can also be retrieved at this site.

http://www.francesfarmersrevenge.com/stuff/archive/oldnews2/boystown/

 

[godzorphan]

Great post, godzorphan! Welcome to Websleuths I've been wondering "why now" also, and I do think it's highly plausible that we are all missing something here, but I have no idea what.

You've done alot of traveling for information on this case? Is this for a hobby or your profession??

Thanks for your words of encouragement. My work on all of this stemmed from being a law enforcement contract trainer on occult crimes, and then crimes against children, which led me into several very dangerous cases involving sex rings and child trafficking. It's kind of a non-paid profession! I support myself any way I can, mainly thru speaking so I can continue to be an advocate for children and teens who are being exploited.

 

[Pcarpent]

I'll welcome any and all evidence for the the allegations of massive, sinister child abduction cults, and I'll continue to give it respectful and open consideration. It remains on the table as one of a number of working hypotheses.

But I'll also continue to apply the same fundamental critical skepticism that anyone would use in buying a used car on the street - as well as size up the motives and mindset of the person(s) making the case. To date the case has not been made, not even close. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

 

[godzorphan]

I can't welcome you enough to WS, Godzorphan. Thank you for your input.

I've done an hour or two (ha!) of research into the Franklin Cover-up, Johnny Gosch, etc. myself and reached the same conclusions you did. With the advent of the internet, it's actually quite easy to do if you just keep following each trail where it leads you. Unfortunately, after you've followed so many trails and seen so much evidence that all points to the same truth, you find yourself getting dizzy with knowledge that nobody, and I mean nobody, wants to hear. People say "conspiracy theorist" to anyone who dares utter anything about this. IMO, all of the facts I uncovered were heartbreaking and left me reeling with information I didn't have a clue what to do with. Whatever this is, it's too big to fight on your own. That much I know.

Thank you, too. Yeaah, that's part of the problem. We got to a certain level on several high level cases and "someone" started to push back, and I realized that child /trade groups are as organized (perhaps more) and dangerous as drug cartels and work much the same way, including blackmailing people who COULD do something about it. It's funny about how people talk about "conspiracy nuts." (I don't consider myself one.) In law, all you have to do to prove conspiracy is to have more than two people working together to commit the same crime, no? Well....

Also unfortunately in the Gosch case as well as similar, there seem to be "disinformation" people out there to make ANYONE talking organized crime look non-credible. All we've ever said about this, Franklin case, etc., is look at the facts. If there's nothing there, great. If there is, we need to pursue it. For the record (and I'm not a fan of DeCamp particularly and definitely not Gunderson) reading the Franklin Cover-Up was a life-changer. No one can read that without getting shaken to the core.

 

[HeartofTexas]

I agree... and shaken to the core is a good way to put it. It was like everything I believed in all my life was taken away from me in just a few brief hours, and I was left with a crumbling foundation. To this day, I don't have a clue what to do with any of the information I absorbed.

I was very confused about Gunderson before I finished my research. At times I thought he was a savior, and other times I was totally confused. Now I find myself skimming over his name when I read because I really don't know where to slot the information about him. Bottom line, though, is that I don't think I trust him.

And, to be real honest, in order to restore my crumbling foundation and sanity, and in the absence of knowing what to do with any of the info I read, I've pretty much walked away from it all. Occasionally, when I read a thread like this I'm drawn back in for a short while, but I find myself pushing away from it rather quickly, simply because the old feelings of confusion and disillusionment start gnawing at me again.

What do you do with the information? Are you involved in the pursuit of these people, or do you just to research, like me?