IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, W Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 - What happened? - #2

[kcksum]

The quality of the photo does not look like early 80's it looks newer. The pants look like the ones popular in the late 80's. I don't know the name of the style of pants but i call the "Slater from Saved By The Bell pants", the ones that are kind of puffy with all the pockets and seams on them. I am not saying that this picture isn't legitimate at all, but it is not Johnny. And he doesn't even look like Johnny, to me, I am not his mother though, But if Noreen told me the sky was blue, I would have to run outside and check b/c she has zero credibility to me.

I agree, this is not a picture of johnny Gosch. The clothing is too modern and the hair and face are in no way the same. I think the picture is a legite pornography photo (childs eyes are closed, won't look at the camera) but it is not her son. This photo was taken to recently to be Johnny, he would be a man in the photo if he were wearing the clothing that this boy has on. Those pants have cargo pockets and the bottoms are slim cut, Johnny would not have had access to these clothes until he was in his 20's and this boy is clearly not in his 20's.Someone is messing with her big time.:banghead:

 

[2sisters]

these are the pants I am referring to, 3rd from the left.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f195/boricua_love21/savedbythebell.jpg

 

[beakiebean]

If you scroll down to the October 26th entry on http://www.johnnygosch.com/, the one with the pic of the three boys, she's labeledthe boys she claims are Johnny and David Johnson. The other boy now says "Yet to be Released, Seattle WA."

I searched the NCMEC site for boys missing from Seattle, Washington between 1 Jan 1980-31 Dec 1989. I found only one-William Vern Downey. He went missing in 1987 at age 13 however IMHO looks nothing like the third boy in the picture.

Becca

 

[Dr. Doogie]

If you scroll down to the October 26th entry on http://www.johnnygosch.com/, the one with the pic of the three boys, she's labeledthe boys she claims are Johnny and David Johnson. The other boy now says "Yet to be Released, Seattle WA."...

Patricia Johnson-Holm lives in Seattle and hosts an internet radio show focusing on "fringe" topics along with several co-hosts (she is the primary host). Her co-hosts also are rabid believers in the whole Franklin/Alien/et al conspiracies based on their posts on her Yahoo forum. How much you wanna bet that if this third parent evers surfaces, there will be a paper trail of kooky posts that they are responsible for also and may very well be one of her co-hosts?

By the way, there appears to be some sanitizing of PJH's involvement with the Franklin conspiracy theory. I swear that I saw a post by PJH from a couple of years ago where she recommends DeCamp's book, yet that post has been deleted (this was detailed in an earlier post on this thread). However, she recently appeared on a radio show with Noreen where she said that she hadn't heard of the Franklin conspiracy until the photo surfaced and had not located a copy of the book to read it yet. However, her co-hosts on her show have posted on her website numerous times about the book and the conspiracy, Holm is an acquaintance of Tim White who frequently posts about the conspiracy on her website, and she has also been a speaker at conventions where DeCamp and Ted Gunderson have both spoke about the conspiracy. All of this occured months and years prior to the surfacing of the pictures. Her denial of knowledge about the Franklin Cover-up is blatantly false.

 

[Eisbar]

I looked at he recent picture and I have to say that the pants are not cargo but patch type pockets with an elastic waist. There is only one rear pocket and that seems weird. They seem somewhat similar to pants that were around then in the early 80's...

The boy is the same boy in all the pictures, at least I think so. His elbows are the same shape, size. His hands are all similar and slender. Now with that being said I have no clue if it is Johnny Gosch. The only way I could tell is if there were several pictures from him mom posted. That has not happened.

It looks to me like Johnny had really full lips and the pictures of the boy dont really show that.

I still think that Johnny is most prob. dead and has been for a while. I feel deeply for Noreen as losing my son would drive me to the edge of sanity too. I hope that whomever is responsible is brought to justice for killing two lives....that of Johnny and his mother, who will never be the person she was before Johhny was taken.

 

[Mr. E]

They look like the same kid to me. He looks a bit thinner in this new picture, but that's certainly not impossible. He looks more tan, but that could either be that it is the lighting on the picture or he is more tan.

His face and body type look the same to me, as much as you can tell with his eyes closed. His hair is shorter.

I think it's the same kid. And since I think the original picture was Johnny, I think this is Johnny, too.

 

[JusticeForAll]

Latest update from Noreen's site:

 

[Mr. E]

Noreen's website has been updated again. There is another picture of Johnny (?) and another boy.

www.johnnygosch.com

 

[rhyno1974]

I think the kid in the bottom picture is the same kid in the top picture and the same kid in many of the other photos.

 

[beakiebean]

I think the kid in the bottom picture is the same kid in the top picture and the same kid in many of the other photos.

I agree that the two pictures are of the same boy-JMHO but I don't think the boy in the most recent photo's resembles Johnny.

 

[iowa gurl]

I maintain full support of Noreen Gosch. Although I have definite opinions about Ted Gunderson I see how some of this may be credible.

In looking at the photos Noreen says are of Johnny he is laying almost exactly the same way in all of them. Maybe used to being bound and gagged at this is the most comfortable stance for him. The way the boy holds his hands and lays with his knees bent is the same in several of the pics.

None of US knew Johnny and I maintain, were the photos of my boy;I would know it.

Just another thought to ponder, in the most recent pic he is wearing very Western style clothing, this would lend some validity to some of the Franklin kids who said Johnny was taken to a ranch in Colorado and spent several years there.

Just MHO

 

[Dr. Doogie]

I maintain full support of Noreen Gosch. Although I have definite opinions about Ted Gunderson I see how some of this may be credible.

In looking at the photos Noreen says are of Johnny he is laying almost exactly the same way in all of them. Maybe used to being bound and gagged at this is the most comfortable stance for him. The way the boy holds his hands and lays with his knees bent is the same in several of the pics.

None of US knew Johnny and I maintain, were the photos of my boy;I would know it.

Just another thought to ponder, in the most recent pic he is wearing very Western style clothing, this would lend some validity to some of the Franklin kids who said Johnny was taken to a ranch in Colorado and spent several years there.

Just MHO

I also had noticed the very similar position of this boy in several of the pictures. Your analysis of him having been bound often and having found the most comfortable position seems valid.

As far as if this boy is Johnny: I find myself taking a more critical position on Noreen's statements since she aligned herself with Patrica Johnson-Holm. Logic would dictate that Noreen would be in the best position to judge whether this boy is Johnny. However, Noreen has (in my opinion) shown poor judgement when it comes to believing other aspects of this case and appears to be quick to believe anything that reinforces her opinions of what happened - even when it includes the nonsense that PJH espouses. I do some some resemblence to JG in the boy, but I cannot unconditional accept Noreen's conclusions after the PJH fiasco.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

And if it seems like I am being harsh in my assesment of Patrica Johnson-Holms (and Noreen by extension), check out the recent posting of PJH's story at the following link (in her own words):

http://www.rense.com/general74/mother.htm

In summary, she is now claiming that her son in the picture (David) was actual one of twins and the other boy was removed from her at birth. When David was kidnapped, she traced him to a "white trailer" where when she confronted the residents there to return her son, they gave her, not David, but the twin who was stolen at birth!?! Because she had someone who claimed to be David, that is why no police record or missing person database includes her son.

In addition to the above nonsense, she claims that Larry King was a visitor at a place where PJH was staying, that the Pan Am 103 explosion was somehow related to her trying to sell a home to one of the passengers, that an attorney that she tried to retain in her legal troubles was none other that Jack Abramoff who was part of the Franklin plot, etc. She implies that GWH Bush was knighted by Queen Elizabeth as a reward for driving PJH into bankruptcy. She also believes that the number of floors in the two World Trade Center Towers was related to the numerology of her name, that the number of floors in WTC Building 7 (47) along with the number of hijackers (19) show a direct link to her birth year (1947). The looniness of this woman combined with her over-inflated sense of self-importance certainly does not make her a good corraborating witness for Noreen.

The question is not "Is PJH believable?" Obviously (and I will state this as fact, not opinion), she is a complete and total nut-job. The real question is "Why does any sane person see this, but Noreen does not?" I believe (back to opinion only) that Noreen wants to believe so badly that she will swallow anything that supports her theories regardless of how patently ridiculous it is. And that is why I question her identification of "Johnny" in the pictures.

 

[2sisters]

See, this is why I have lost interest in this case. It just goes around and around in circles and everytime you turn around people are sending her these photos. Noreen and co. are whacked out completley and Noreen WILL NEVER be taken seriously, even if this is all true she has trashed her credibility.. Dr. Doogie, i didn't even need to follow your link, I read enough in the 1st paragraph!

 

[iowa gurl]

I agree with you Dr. D about PJH. I also think Noreen realized aligning herself with Patricia may have been a mistake and promptly pointed visitors of her site directly to PJH. The ramblings of PJH are quite bizzare. I think she is off her perverbial rocker. I do not believe this of Ms. Gosch. I support her and do maintain no one is in a better position to say if the pics are or are not of Johnny. I think the boy lying in all of those pictures could very easily be the same boy. I have watched this case my entire adult life and want to see an end for Noreen. I know it may not be the end she desires or wants but she could thereafter move on. Noreen has done a lot for the Missing and Exploited chidren of this nation and because she grasps (for anything to find Johnny and/or his captors) she has radical nutjobs grabbing at her coat tails.

 

[iowa gurl]

From Noreens siteMy intent from the moment I received the photos was to identify the photos of the boys, who were found on a pedophile website, perhaps some people have lost sight of that part of this tragedy. We have received more photos of unidentified boys which have been turned over to the National Center For Missing Children for comparison in their database of missing children. Human trafficking is a huge problem, nearly 100,000 children yearly are trafficked. It is still my mission to continue protecting children and gaining information on the hundreds of children who are unidentified to date.

If anyone has any issues concerning Patricia or her son, it would be best if you contact her directly as she would be better able to answer your questions. Her email address is: [email protected]

I think Noreen clearly tried to UN-align herself with Patricia Johnson-Holm.

Really all Noreen is trying to do is bring justice for victimized children and gain answers about her own child. I am unaware of any harm she has brought to anyone.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

From a long post by PJH on a Crop Circle website in 2001:

"[size=-1]...12.Has the Government tried to cover-up the real source of the Crop Drawings?[/size]
[size=-1](PJH): YES! they even went so far as the brain wash me as early as July 30, 1949. Attempts were made on my life as early as right after being born. There were two floods (the dykes "just happened to brake" an Earthquake (more like a tunnel being colapsed) and a plane crashed in my front yard. Not to mention when getting my first baby shots my mother accused them of trying to kill me. Ever since Roswell, there has been GREAT effort to NOT let any information out about the real reason for my birth. All my life there has been one thing after another. Even to the point of when reaching for a video tape at Blockbusters the tape was taken right out from under my hand (if it was something 'NOT SUPPOSED TO BE SEEN BY ME')."[/size]

Whenever there has been an earthquake or flood, this woman believes it is part of a government conspiracy to kill her. She even claims to have been brainwashed when she was two years old. And, of course, everytime someone grabs a video at Blockbuster that you are reaching for, it must be part of this grand conspiracy.


I really shouldn't continue to point out what a nut-case this woman is, but it is so damn easy (and I must admit, kinda fun too). I am not sure that Noreen actually has distanced herself from this woman - she appeared together with PJH on Jeff Rense's radio show weeks after posts and blogs began to show Holm's craziness. It would seem to me that Noreen would need to publicly state that she is not sure that PJH's claims are truthful and as a result, retract any claims based on PJH until they can be verified or disproved. At that point, I would have a lot more confidence in Noreen's judgement.

 

[Mr. E]

PJH is clearly looney tunes, which is sad because it takes away from the real issue at hand: Johnny Gosch is still missing. Didn't she insinuate that her son (I'm still not even sure I believe she has a kid) is a part of the House of Stuart? Isn't that . . . royalty??

I hope Noreen keeps far away from her so she can get back to finding out what happened to her son.

 

[mjak]

Okay, I am convinced PJH Is severly mentally Ill, deffinitly delusional , delusionaly narcisistic in her thought process (everything that happens is aimed at or about her) and majorly confused. I can not put any belief in Noreen's claims as long as she is aligned with PHJ.
Irregardless of all of this those photos of bound boys are very very disturbing and I hope
the proper athorities are doing a proper investigation of these photos.

mjak

PS. I have no clue if there is really such a thing as dellusional narcissim but it
sure seems to fit this women. Very sad.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

I recall that someone from here contacted Noreen after the info about PJH came to light (and NG's response wasn't very appreciative of the info). Does anyone feel up to recontacting Noreen to gauge her thoughts now about PJH?