IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, W Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 - What happened? - #2

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

If some one has multiple personalities /dissociative disorder they acquired it before the age of 5 or 6. In no way do you have a good memory because of it If anything you don't remember things very well because your mind blocks it all out to protect itself. I would have to discredit him IF he actually has this disorder.

Actually true MPD is very rare. Misdiagnosis is very frequent. Most cases of MPD have been created by therapists with the cooperation of their patients. Basically the experts have created both the disease and the cure. Even Sybil (Shirley Adrell Mason) was found to not have MPD, but developed these personalities after they where suggested under hypnosis from her Therapist. However, she was severely abused as a child, which resulted in depression and suicidal thoughts as an adult. This is what led her to a therapist to begin with. This does not mean that MPD does not exist, but that its origin and development are often suggested out of hypnosis from ones destroyed "original self." It almost invariably owes its existence to prolonged early childhood abuse, usually sexual, and of sickening severity. Of course, this can and has been challenged, but before an actual disorder was named, these patients were thought to have demons and an Exorcism often preformed by a priest to "cure" them. With that said, IF PB actually does have MPD, he more than likely is telling the truth of his abuse.

I have done extensive research on this for years. Has he ever actually proven anything he has ever stated? JG is old enough now if he was still alive he'd make contact with his mother.

If JG is alive, how normal do you think he is now? The rate of alcoholism, and drug abuse are very high in adults who suffered sexual abuse...and yes even mental disorders can manifest from severe abuse. He could have his own MPD type of symptoms resulting in delusions and psychosis. If his mother is a "nut case" as you say, he could have a predisposition for mental disorders. If he is alive, he probably has no idea who he is, much less where he came from, or his parents names.

We can all go back and forth about our therories...whether the government was involved or not or if Noreen is a nut case (which I know first hand that she is wacky) however it's not doing any good in figuring out what happened to a little boy that disappeared years ago. The people in Des Moines where JG lived needed to be check out throughly first but Noreen wouldn't allow a few good prospects to be interrogated by the people working the case.

I have never met a Law enforcement agency who would let the parent of an abducted child dictate who could and couldn't be interviewed. There is no way LE (or the FBI) would by-pass potential suspects because Noreen said they couldn't talk to them...especially when she started pointing her finger at the government. Nope, if LE felt they where "good prospects" then LE would have interviewed them regardless of what Noreen said. In my humble oppenion.

 

[dorca the just]

Know what just passed through my mind? A potential defamation suit. Why? NG has made certain claims about government officials from the president on down to the local police chief and/or other officials in Des Moines. Know what else? Nobody has ever brought a defamation action against NG, to my knowledge. Know what I know? Truth is an absolute foolproof defense to an action for defamation. Know what I wonder? Why no one NG ever accused ever brought a defamation action. Perhaps, just for the sake of argument, someone could be in danger of being found out. Carrying all this stuff to its most logical conclusion, if you will, I think that if there are persons higher up in the government/extragovernment who are found to have been a bunch of pervs, the resultant scandal could make Watergate look like a Barney party.

 

[Teresa Larson]

Know what just passed through my mind? A potential defamation suit. Why? NG has made certain claims about government officials from the president on down to the local police chief and/or other officials in Des Moines. Know what else? Nobody has ever brought a defamation action against NG, to my knowledge. Know what I know? Truth is an absolute foolproof defense to an action for defamation. Know what I wonder? Why no one NG ever accused ever brought a defamation action. Perhaps, just for the sake of argument, someone could be in danger of being found out. Carrying all this stuff to its most logical conclusion, if you will, I think that if there are persons higher up in the government/extragovernment who are found to have been a bunch of pervs, the resultant scandal could make Watergate look like a Barney party.

You can look at this in many different ways. The government pays no attention to kooks like NG. What good would it do them to press charges against her? It'd be a waste of money. Why defend yourself if you don't need to? I have had people accuse me of things that were not true and I laughed at them because I knew what they were saying had no merit The same way the government looks at this case.

 

[Teresa Larson]

Actually true MPD is very rare. Misdiagnosis is very frequent. Most cases of MPD have been created by therapists with the cooperation of their patients. Basically the experts have created both the disease and the cure. Even Sybil (Shirley Adrell Mason) was found to not have MPD, but developed these personalities after they where suggested under hypnosis from her Therapist. However, she was severely abused as a child, which resulted in depression and suicidal thoughts as an adult. This is what led her to a therapist to begin with. This does not mean that MPD does not exist, but that its origin and development are often suggested out of hypnosis from ones destroyed "original self." It almost invariably owes its existence to prolonged early childhood abuse, usually sexual, and of sickening severity. Of course, this can and has been challenged, but before an actual disorder was named, these patients were thought to have demons and an Exorcism often preformed by a priest to "cure" them. With that said, IF PB actually does have MPD, he more than likely is telling the truth of his abuse.



If JG is alive, how normal do you think he is now? The rate of alcoholism, and drug abuse are very high in adults who suffered sexual abuse...and yes even mental disorders can manifest from severe abuse. He could have his own MPD type of symptoms resulting in delusions and psychosis. If his mother is a "nut case" as you say, he could have a predisposition for mental disorders. If he is alive, he probably has no idea who he is, much less where he came from, or his parents names.


I have never met a Law enforcement agency who would let the parent of an abducted child dictate who could and couldn't be interviewed. There is no way LE (or the FBI) would by-pass potential suspects because Noreen said they couldn't talk to them...especially when she started pointing her finger at the government. Nope, if LE felt they where "good prospects" then LE would have interviewed them regardless of what Noreen said. In my humble oppenion.

First of all MPD/ dissociative disorder is not a disease and it is very common actually. It occurs when a child is sexually abused or had something very traumatic happens to them. It usually happens before the age of 5 or 6. I know this because of the research I have done and also because of the friendship I have with a counselor who treats people with this disorder. IF JG was alive today he'd be no different than the rest of the boys that were sexually abused and kidnapped at his age. He would know who is was because he was 8 years old when kidnapped. He would have lots of issues but none that would keep him from contacting his mother. The P.I.'s that worked this case wanted to investigate certain people but NG wouldn't allow them too. I happen to know this first hand also.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Know what just passed through my mind? A potential defamation suit. Why? NG has made certain claims about government officials from the president on down to the local police chief and/or other officials in Des Moines. Know what else? Nobody has ever brought a defamation action against NG, to my knowledge. Know what I know? Truth is an absolute foolproof defense to an action for defamation. Know what I wonder? Why no one NG ever accused ever brought a defamation action. Perhaps, just for the sake of argument, someone could be in danger of being found out. Carrying all this stuff to its most logical conclusion, if you will, I think that if there are persons higher up in the government/extragovernment who are found to have been a bunch of pervs, the resultant scandal could make Watergate look like a Barney party.

I'll have to sort-of agree with Teresa in regards to this. Though I think if Noreen was getting hot with her accusations, she would have met an untimely death...car accident, plane crash, or what ever the men in black could pull off.:bang:

 

[lilmisssleuth]

I don't think anyone in the government filed suit against her because of how it would play out in the media. I can see the headline...."Big Wig in Washington Sues Poor Woman Whose Son was Kidnapped"

 

[thefragile7393]

For me, this hit the nail on the head.

Again, I don’t consider myself out there in Cuckooland. I have a hard time swallowing the whole government-sponsored pedo ring deal, but I don’t think the Gosch case is your typical snatch, rape and kill scenario. My opinion again is that it’s somewhere in the middle, and that somebody had this kid for some time. Maybe not a ring; maybe not a cabal. But it went on for longer than what is typical, and that’s the part that blows my mind. Wish I could expose the (s) who did this, though. I also feel for NG. I hope she’s not getting a gigantic snowjob; nobody deserves that.

I think that sums up pretty much how I feel. If it was your typical snatch, harm, kill scenario, I think this would have died out long ago and been buried in cold case archives.

 

[dorca the just]

“I don't think anyone in the government filed suit against her because of how it would
play out in the media. I can see the headline...."Big Wig in Washington Sues Poor Woman Whose Son was Kidnapped"” Possibly. Just throwing it out there for what it was worth, which given what we actually know versus what we think we know, it’s probably not a whole lot. On the other hand, and this is just for the sake of argument, you could spin it this way: “Wacked-out Mother of Missing Son Accuses Congressman of Pedarasty” or something like that. This way you could have a valid suit for slander/libel if you could certify NG as nutso and the congressman as above reproach. As you can see, I’m trying to look at it from all possible angles here. In any case, I’ll reiterate that it’s my belief that this isn’t your typical snuff case.

“Be good to the soldiers and scorn the rest.”—Septimus Severus, Emper of Rome, 193-211 AD

 

[Capt.]

I see this thread is still going and I don't believe it will ever stop. I left this issue back in the first JG thread around the 70th post. I had a working interest in this case and others that were similar. I'm glad it isn't as pressing for me now. I worked with DID clients back then that were involved in RA and mind control. I've heard of 8-10 murders commited by groups and Aquino's name was always there. One clients triggering from cell phone came from the Omaha area amongst the other locations.
I still have some of the communications transcribed.

Just to add to Mrs. Larson, after the early years of developing a disassociative mind(I believe you said 5-6), spliting of the personality can happen at any age with the younger ones generally more disruptive. In my experience it is common for one ID to have a Christian mindset while others would be "dark". Note Noreen's reluctance to have church members questioned.

I pretty much go along with the whole ugly concept, from the Washington perps, to the Omaha cult, to Johnnys abduction, but I have no answer to where's Johnny.

I'm out of here for now and have a great day. I'll stop back if it's friendly here, and not if it isn't. I'm not really vested in this case like I was.

 

[Pandora]

An interesting new article mentioning Johnny can be found here: http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/52590

Most of it just deals with the concept of child /molestation rings including the McMartin case.

Sample:
Is Ritual Child Abuse Just a Hoax?
By Victoria Hardy
February 15, 2008
Do we only see what we want to see? Or do we only see what we are shown? Many admit to knowing there is both good and evil on this earth, but it appears we feel that evil exists only in individuals or small pockets of like-minded people, never can we conceive, it seems, that evil may be pervasive, systematic and organized. I know, in this day and age, the debate about evil is long, does it exist and what constitutes evil versus lifestyle choice. I´ve always figured in the end it is only my own actions I will have to be responsible for, so I try not to judge others, but I have to state that I find the ritual torture, molestation and often, murder of children to rest fully in the realm of evil.

According to the reports from the US Department of Justice 797,500 children (18 and younger) were reported missing in a one year period studied, resulting in an average of 2,185 being reported missing each day. National Center for Missing & Exploited Children This is an shockingly high number, considering those numbers only represent the United States and only the children that are reported missing, not the throwaway kids that exist in every town and city across America. So where are all these children going?

It seems in the 1980s we received a few clues from the mainstream media about what may be happening, but the stories were called hoaxes and disappeared from view, dismissed and supposedly debunked. Where this sordid tale begins and ends is still a mystery for me, but I will start with the disappearance of Johnny Gosch on Sept. 5, 1982, the country´s first milk carton kid. Johnny was a good-looking 12 year-old boy when he disappeared from his route delivering the Des Moines Register Sunday paper. At the time of his disappearance police did not immediately begin searching for him and waited a 72-hour window before considering him officially missing.


I'm not sure exactly how much she really knows. . . .Bio sketch:
Victoria Hardy (blog) is the drummer for the pop duo 3 Feet Up. She lives in North Carolina with her husband, who is also the other half of the duo and they have released 2 CDs since 2005: 3 feet up CDs. 3 Feet Up was featured in the Living Room Live Series on the CBS Early Show in July of 2006.

 

[thefragile7393]

I'm not sure about this woman's research, as whale.to is known for very sensational stories, and while I've found some good articles on there, it dosn't have a very good reputation for anything solid. Same with educate-yourself.org.....certain things I've found on there that make sense to me (metal free dentistry for one thing) but there's a lot of sensastionalistic stuff on both sites that lead me to believe that she's done wacky research. Of course the Franklin Files fit right in to both sites. Still haven't read either book to really make a more thorough judgement (tried to watch the video and it was just too poorly done to sit through). Is it true that Gannon has refused DNA testing?

I just feel the truth lies somewhere in-between a simple abduction and probable attack and murder and the sensationalism of the whole Franklin Files thing.

 

[dorca the just]

Yes, it's definitely true that Jeff Gannon/James Gukart did not submit to a DNA test as of now. That along with all the other evivdence, or suppositions, or whatever you want to call them, still has me going: "Hmm." I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that we'll simply never know what the hell happened in this case.

 

[thefragile7393]

That's just odd that he hasn't submitted to one...I wonder what his reasoning is?

I too am thinking the whole truth will never come out...I wish it would.

 

[Capt.]

Doesn't Gannon lack the birthmark Johnny had?

I've read the info in Victoria Hardy's article before.


Unrelated FYI
Some marks received through trauma can reoccur over time. i.e. burns, brands, rash, but not birthmarks, I've never seen birthmarks do that.

 

[dorca the just]

Can’t say for sure about whether or not he has the birth mark. I’ve heard both sides of the coin, and I’m certainly no judge of these things. If he does have it, he may have gotten it removed quite some time ago, especially if he were Gosch and can be identified by that mark. Of course he may not be, which begs the question of whether people can have similar enough birth marks that might lead to the conclusion that he was possibly Gosch. But I suppose birth marks are largely like human beings themselves — each is different from one another.
Either way, this whole failure/refusal to get the DNA test done suggests several possibilities. One is that Jeff Gannon is Gosch and wants to be left alone. He may also be Gosch, and he wants to wait for a more auspicious time to reveal himself and/or to get even with those who wronged him in the past. Yet another possibility is that he’s not Gosch and still wants to be left alone. Some of his reactions to this whole Gannon thing, from what I’ve been able to observe, suggest to me that he’s not Gosch and may be a publicity hound. If so, it seems to me that he’d eventually realize there are diminishing returns seeing as how stories have a shelf life just like practically everything else. Gannon’s story and all the suppositions that went along with it were hot items back in ’05. Unfortunately the earth keeps turning, and so Gannon isn’t such a hot item anymore. Gosch’s case was itself way hot throughout much of the 80s after he disappeared, but it too faded into the background. This is only natural given that the case was never resolved to anyone’s universal satisfaction. What has kept it from going completely stone cold dead in the market is all the evidence, or supposed evidence, and all the supposition that surrounds it. Plus, evidence or supposed evidence keeps coming to light every two to five years or thereabouts. But I guess I wish Gannon/Gukart would just take the damned test already so that the concerned parties could get on with their lives one way or another. I can’t help but think that while he might be afraid to reveal his identity assuming he is Gosch, doing so would make him practically immune from being killed or suicided. Assuming only for the sake of the argument that the Gosch case is indeed related to governmental corruption and scandal, killing him would only expose the roaches even further. Of course, the argument might be that they don’t have anything to lose, so maybe they just don’t care about taking a life — for national security purposes, of course. You understand, don’t you? These things have to be done on occasion.

 

[thefragile7393]

Of course, the argument might be that they don’t have anything to lose, so maybe they just don’t care about taking a life — for national security purposes, of course. You understand, don’t you? These things have to be done on occasion.

Ahh yes.....somewhat like Blade Runner perhaps.....

 

[Trino]

Doesn't Gannon lack the birthmark Johnny had?

Unrelated FYI
Some marks received through trauma can reoccur over time. i.e. burns, brands, rash, but not birthmarks, I've never seen birthmarks do that.

Birthmarks will never take the place of DNA. The poor mother deserves DNA results. Why won't these guys give them?

 

[2sisters]

Hopefully he will be found one day and this can be put to rest. Someone has gotten away with murder and has gone on to commit more crimes against children (IMO) b/c everyone is busy chasing ghosts.
This guy claims to be him, ok step up and prove it. Compare your DNA to Noreen's. Gine DNA for a test, what's the big deal? The whole reason he won't is b/c he is not actually Johnny therefore making their story fall apart.

 

[Ranter]

No offer of DNA means he's lying. Simple as that. If he really were JG, a simple DNA test would prove it with 100% accuracy. The fact that he hasn't gone this route is all anyone should need to settle this in their own minds. When someone does not offer up a simple and obvious proof, that means it ain't true.

 

[rbeck]

Jeff Gannon refused to do a dna test 3 times. When Noreen asked him on the Bo Deitle show on MSNBC to submit a dna sample the results will be kept secret only to Jeff and herself and not released to the media Jeff Gannon agreed to do a dna test on the air. a week later when Noreen sent a PI to Gannons apartment in the Dupont Circle area (gay area)of Washington DC to arrange the dna test Gannon slammed the door in the PIs face and refused to answer any more of Noreens phone calls. Either Jeff Gannon has something to hide or he was just playing it up to the cameras for publicity and attention. He also was involved in the W Bush, Karl Rove,Valerie Plame, Scooter Libby fiasco a few years back and helped in leaking classified information to the press.Jeff Gannon is a real snake in the grass and a professional liar for his neoconservative handlers.being a former male prostitute God knows what else he does for them behind closed doors.Gannon also was a co founder of the phony Talon news group with the Eberle family who were child pornographers from back in the 80s and ran a website called alessandrassmile which is a child nudist kiddie site. Gannon is alot more than a fake reporter hired to throw softball questions to W Bush at press conferences. He is well connected in the underground gay community in DC. To me the man has a strong resemblance to John Gosch sr Johnnys father particularly around his eyes but the noses are different (anyone can get plastic surgery). When comparing a newspaper photo of John Gosch sr taken in his late 40s and a photo of Gannon who is close to 40 both mens orbital eye sockets have the exact same shape.Paul Bonacci said that the last time he saw Johnny Gosch he had shaved his head and was getting plastic surgery.Also the last time Rusty Nelson talked to Johnny Gosch in 2000 in Oregon at a farmers market Johnny gave him a "wouldnt it be funny if.." scenario about a gay prostitue showing up in the white house and look what happened almost 5 years later.in a radio interview in 2005 Rusty was asked if he thought Gannon was Johnny Gosch Rusty said "I would bet all my money on it the only thing i have to say is look at the eyes"

PS. Here is a home video on liveleak.com released this week of Jeff Gannon at a CPAC (Conservative Political Action Comittee)convention defending neocon fundraising??
am I the only one who can see through his BS ?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=488_1202655555

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b2a_1202991209

CAPT. i sent you a private message respond back with what you think
I appreciate it