IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, West Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 #4

i think the only thing that really keeps me going and interested in this case is the not that Noreen claims to have actual names of the people involved, or know of the specific relationships of any of these people supposedly involved in JG's abduction (i.e. "Tony", "Emilio", etc.), but the fact that I feel the locations described by Bonacci in his interviews seem to have connections to other disappearances around the same time period. Most strikingly is the composite originally used in the Michaela Garecht case. Where Noreen got the idea that this person was partially responsible for JG's abduction, or whether or not she was aware that the same sketch was later connected to Garecht's disappearance, i don't know. But the vehicle's were described as the same, the time period fits, and with the Bohemian Grove and Offut Air Force base connections, this suspects whereabouts during the time these abductions took place seem too coincidental for me to ignore.

During the early 1980s, there were a good amount of child abductions occurring in the northeast US. 3 of which - all involving 2 y/o boys - happened in Idaho within a 4 year span. Also from another thread on here for Wallace Guidroz, who was abducted in 1983 from Tacoma, WA area, there is a composite provided which resembled I feel, pretty strongly, Jo Anna Maria Pederson case on the Doe Network - Case File 377DFBC. She went missing in Chilliwack, BC Canada (which isn't terribly far from the US border) in 1983. The vehicles also seem to be similar to Russell John Mort's case here http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/198dmny.html (also more info at http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/mort_russell.html). I could be getting a little "out there" with this, but i felt they were worth mentioning on here since really, especially in the JG case, there isn't much else to go on other than coincidences and/or similarities.
 
I don't fault Noreen for anything she's said or done in her efforts to find her son. I don't believe she's ever operated under any agenda other than to find Johnny and bring him home. Her willingness to come forward and tell Johnny's story, over & over again, has undoubtedly done some good to raise awareness and cause us all to watch our children a bit more carefully.

Having said that, I also believe Noreen may have been taken advantage of by some people. I don't know what their motive would be. But I do think she may have received at least some information which was false. I certainly don't blame her for believing them or pursuing every potential lead. What else could a mother do?

Air Force bases, Bohemian Grove ... it's a real stretch for me to see all those connections. However, pedophile rings ? I can't discount the similarity of Eugene Martin's disappearance. And possibly Marc Allen's as well. We know pedophiles exist. The idea there could be an organized ring? Definitely a distasteful topic for the mainstream press to cover.

Lately I've been following the Jacob Wetterling thread. There was mention there of over the road truckers kidnapping children around that same time period ... late 80's, early 90's. Has anyone else ever heard this about truckers? I don't recall seeing it elsewhere.

In response to the bolded, I really thought that I had read somewhere long ago that JG had been spotted in the South/Southeast somewhere with two truckers, a black man and a white man. However, I've looked and looked for a reference to this, and I haven't found it, so I guess I must have been confusing JG's case with someone else's.
 
Has everyone seen the latest picture posted on Noreen's website? Any thoughts on whether or not it's Johnny?

http://www.johnnygosch.com/images/jgsc.jpg

not a chance

I'm trying to understand why Noreen thinks it's him ...

the nose for starters is completely and utterly different; and IMO there are many other differences

quite frankly, that pic looks like a girl to me, wearing a halter top or a kitchen apron

the necklace/chain is decidedly feminine

I realize there are sickos who would have a boy dress up/look like a girl but I'm convinced this particular photo is in fact, a girl and definately not Johnny

JMO
 
Do you remember about 9 years ago, there was a guy who lived in DC who people were saying was Johnny Gosch. He was reported to be a male prostitue who serviced politicians in DC.
Also, do you remember his mom said someone showed up on her porch years ago saying they were Johnny Gosch?
 
CarmenU, I remember both those incidents.

Do you think the prostitute is/was Johnny?
 
not a chance

I'm trying to understand why Noreen thinks it's him ...

the nose for starters is completely and utterly different; and IMO there are many other differences

quite frankly, that pic looks like a girl to me, wearing a halter top or a kitchen apron

the necklace/chain is decidedly feminine

I realize there are sickos who would have a boy dress up/look like a girl but I'm convinced this particular photo is in fact, a girl and definately not Johnny

JMO

I've been studying that photo. From my POV it is a boy. One who has been beaten (as you indicate the nose looks different), someone probably punched him in the face in the past, causing damage (breakage) to the nose. I note a similiarity between this boy's dark circles under the eyes, and those under the eyes of Paul Bonacci. Is this a result of drugs and sleep deprivation?

Also, the cloth around the neck IMO is the gag that was used to tie the boys up in the other photo.
The necklace does appear "feminine" as you say. He could have been forced to wear it, and also have the haircut that could either be for a boy or girl.

We have to remember that probably these children were tortured and forced to appear/be a certain way. That would include the seemingly "forced" smile.

(This is JMO)
 
There is another photo of a boy on the Johnny Gosch site (Dec. 2, 2006 posting) who they say they can't identify. I think the photo we are discussing here looks very much like that boy. If you scroll down on the site you will see what I'm referring to--(Dec. 2, 2006).
 
Regarding the "feminine" necklace, if you look at the other photos of boys on the Johnny Gosch site (the photos Noreen thinks are of her son), you'll see many wearing the same necklace. They are obviously boys in the photos, so I think the femininity of the necklace is irrelevant. Also, a lot of other photos of boys in similar situations (bound, gagged, in similar rooms/places) show them wearing a similar necklace. I have always wondered if the necklace had some deeper significance -- like a creepy version of a wedding ring that the abductors/pornographers gave to their victims.

I agree with concentric...the boy (who I do believe looks just like Johnny) appears beaten and drugged.

I'm not going to link to the pictures or post them because I find them disgusting, but some of them can be found on Noreen's website, including one of a boy (thought to be Johnny) in red sweatpants; you can see the necklace in that photo, I think.
 
Mr. E:

I think you are correct about the cross pendants with chains these boys are wearing--that they are some identifying tag.

I know what you mean about posting the pictures here and that is why I can't put the photos side by side.

It's difficult, but do me a favor and scroll down at the Johnny Gosch site, and look at the photo I mentioned, Dec. 2, 2006. There is a boy they say is 'unidentified" that looks more like the photo we are discussing. I say this because of the nose and haircut, etc.

Regarding a different case. If you scroll down in the site you will see photos of men in "monk-type" garments staring at a blond boy who is chained up. I saw a photo of a child who was kidnapped from a beach in Portugal who looks very much like this child. I saved the missing children site where I saw the photo.

I know it is difficult to view these photos; however, if we don't we may never know the truth.

Thanks.
 
The "Camp Caribou" bag in the background is something that is being asked about. What significance does this have?
________________________
For me, this would point toward Canadian or Alaskan connections, since it is in the English language. That would make sense, that people would smuggle these children through Canada, possibly into Russia, etc. since photos were found on a Russian pedophile site.

Next, I have to ask if Jacob Wetterling perhaps was trafficked in the same manner.
 
IMHO, the individual in the most recent photo you are discussing is most definitely a boy. The boy is also sad, and shell-shocked for lack of a better description! I haven't been to Noreen's site in a while, but I guess I will spin off a few hours in that direction! As far as posting the photo's - I guess I have mixed feelings. I think SOMEONE should at least save them. Saving the links is not good enough because the links will eventually be broken. Noreen has them, but it just seems like they should be stored somewhere for future reference. JG's case has always broken my heart.... and I feel horrible for Noreen. Guess I will drag myself over there and look.
 
The "Camp Caribou" bag in the background is something that is being asked about. What significance does this have?
________________________
For me, this would point toward Canadian or Alaskan connections, since it is in the English language. That would make sense, that people would smuggle these children through Canada, possibly into Russia, etc. since photos were found on a Russian pedophile site.

Next, I have to ask if Jacob Wetterling perhaps was trafficked in the same manner.

There's a Camp Caribou in Maine that's been around since 1923: http://www.campcaribou.com/
 
Most likely the people posting on this website in 2008, figured out which "Camp Caribou" it was--the one in Canada (pedophile priest information):

http://www.🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬/forum1/message510406/pg1
 
Looks like Camp Caribou was run by Marcel Maciel- most famoust high up priest pedophile


Fernando Gonzalez’s “Unpublished Testimonies and Documents” prove beyond a reasonable doubt, to any reasonable reader, that Legion of Christ Founder, Fr. Marcial Maciel, was guilty of the sexual abuse of his seminarians, that he was/is addicted to a form of morphine called Dolantin (demerol, meperidine, isonipecaine, dolantol), and that he did indeed abuse his power to control all those beneath him in order to carry out his plans. It also demonstrates just how successful the Maciel Myth –perpetuated by the man himself- has been over the past six decades in the Vatican and in some gullible Catholic enclaves. It only remains to be seen whether this ground-breaking book will have any effect on the thousands of Maciel devotees, specifically the hard-core American, mostly female, membership of his Regnum Christi Lay Movement. Will these well-meaning Catholics be able to see through the dazzling vestments of their leader, creator of the greatest recruitment and fundraising machine in Catholic history, to discover the flesh of a Mexican Elmer Gantry?

PASSAGES
Lust/Purity Paradox
[A free-lance translator remarks on reading Gonzalez’ book]
One of the more interesting passages I found was this quote from an early legionary, Jose-Antonio Perez-Olvera, who described the internal psychological conflicts caused by the contradictions of living in an environment where an obsession with "purity" coexists with a secret undercurrent of sinful sexuality:

"It seemed that nothing mattered more than the virtue of purity. We were wholesome boys, but they drummed the idea of purity into us to such a degree that we ended up being fixated on it. For us everything was a sin. The obsession with offending God was so great that I couldn't even touch my penis when I went to the bathroom. I ended up going to a Trappist monastery next door to confess. This from the time I was a boy, from the time I entered at age eleven. And I want to tell you that in Rome we were surrounded by paintings of nudes. A virgin breast-feeding a child was a sin. It was aberrant. The hypocrisy got to the point that they would put little pieces of paper on art book pictures so that things would not be seen [which produced the opposite effect]. I lived in anguish. One could never feel serene. It was as if God had not created sex. And to top it all off, Fr. Marcial was a total hypocrite; it did not matter to him that he had destroyed us."


Vatican Investigators recommend banishing Fr. Maciel in 1956 just as in 2005
Most of the Legion’s defense of Fr. Maciel rests on his coming through the “first” investigation with flying colors and the fact that those who later accused him were then silent. Fernando González struck it rich when he got his hands on three heretofore hidden archives: the Fr. Luis Ferreira archive (Maciel’s closest collaborator during the foundation); the Widow Flora Barragán archives (one of Maciel’s earlier and closest benefactors); and the 1956 Vatican Investigation archives. From the latter we have access to secret reports by then Vatican Investigators, some of whom belonged to the Carmelite Order. These documents demonstrate that the investigators/visitators did much more than question the seminarians.


Editor: please note that the accusations against Fr. Maciel are consistent and essentially the same, but that the public recommendation of the Holy See in May 2005 is only a faint echo of those made in writing by the visitator cited below. At the same time, the 1956 investigator also spoke of “silence” regarding measures to be taken by the Vatican. This has led some to speculate that as of April 2005 the Vatican is implementing “silent measures” -unknown to the media and the public- inside the Legion. In this case all involved could be bound by a special promise of silence imposed by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith or by the pope in person under pain of excommunication.

In the mid-1950s the Vatican suspended Maciel as superior general while it sent visitators to investigate charges against him. One of the visitators, a Carmelite friar named Anastasio Ballestrero of the Most Holy Rosary, sent a report recommending serious restructuring of the Legion as well as the removal of Maciel. Fr. Anastasio writes:

"[Pg. 15] Fr. Maciel, with whom I had hardly met, began to defend himself in an animated manner, without my even mentioning the accusations, indicating that he was well informed about everything while at the same time accusing Fr. Ferreira and especially [Brother] Domínguez of falsehoods and ambition. . . (Translators’ Note: Ferreira and Domínguez had submitted scathing written affidavits to ecclesiastical authorities which were highly critical of Maciel.)

"[Pg. 16] In response to the specific accusations regarding violations of the sixth [commandment], I have not received confirmation of anything. But it is worth mentioning the fact that, as has been already noted, the founder has complete control over [spiritual] direction in matters of purity and that he made a declaration, unsolicited, assuring me that none of his religious had ever committed a single sin of this nature [against purity].

"[Pg. 18] Conclusions:

"1. The Institute in question, in spite of the appearance of splendor and grandiosity, is in reality very fragile in its legal and spiritual structure. Additionally, it lacks mature and experienced personnel who can guarantee the level of development expected.

"2. The group of young novices and students, who make up nine tenths of the institute, have become fanaticized by the founder and his enterprise. However, this group is substantially healthy and shows good will. There is some hope of its being able to free itself of this fanaticism, although this appears doubtful."

His suggestions and remedies were as follows:

"1. In order to reduce appearances to the limits of reality:

"a) [Instal] the seat of administration in Mexico
"b) The Apostolic School and the Novitiate exclusively limited to Mexico
"c) A prohibition ad nutum S. Sedis [under the direction of the Holy See] from admitting new students into the Apostolic School and the Novitiate
"d) A prohibition . . . against new foundations

"2. In order to guarantee more effective control over the Institute:
"a) Appointing someone from the Mexican episcopate with a special mandate to conduct oversight and provide assistance
"b) Naming a Superior General from outside the institution, but who belongs to a modern institution with an affinity for structure and spirituality. . .

"3. Fr. Maciel should be removed from his office on the basis of his exclusive and sole responsibility for the multiple serious legal irregularities and for the abuses committed in his administrative capacity. Keeping silence on the other matters seems prudent for reasons both internal and external, at least for the time being. The irregularities and abuses by themselves provide sufficient legal reasons for proceeding. [page 19]

"4. After a penance of a month of [spiritual] exercises, the priest in question should be obliged to live in a house in Mexico under the supervision of a bishop appointed by the Holy See. The Superior General should prohibit him from making trips of any sort and from interfering in the affairs of the Institute.

"5. The current constitutions should be radically modified with particular attention to the goals of the Institute and to the abolition of three vows.

"6. Finally, it would be desirable to discreetly notify, at the appropriate time, the Mexican episcopate and the Spanish ordinaries [bishops], as well as other interested prelates. Even more delicate is decision regarding how best to inform the Spanish Government.

"7. In the matter of granting secularization [Ed., i.e. return to diocesan priesthood out of religious life in the Legion] to the current vicar, Fr. Ferreira, I believe it would be opportune to do so, especially considering that there is absolutely no possibility of his being able to govern or to be of further use to the Institute.

"Rome, February 11, 1957


Weaving the Web of Secrecy
At the same time that Fr. Maciel, using his unquestionable skills, set up the Legion’s foundation system, he spun an elaborate and intricate web of secrecy around himself. In order to protect his unmentionable motives he surrounded himself with concentric circles of confidants. Because Fr. Maciel had three secrets: he preyed on his seminarians’ sexual innocence, he craved morphine, and he wielded absolute power inside the Legion. How Fr. Maciel was able to simultaneously balance these two contradictory worlds, the public and the private, will continue to baffle historians, Catholics, and the general public
(bolded by me).
 
To again specify, there are two camp caribous. The one in Maine was owned by the Lerman family in 1968. There was no mention of a Catholic affiliation. There was another mention (from the godlikeproduction link) about another camp caribou in Canada once run by Marcel Maciel. It still exists:

It is a boys only camp for boys ages 10-13

February 9, 2010. Ontario, Canada. Canadian families who are looking for an east-coast summer camp for their boys have two great options right in eastern Canada: Camp Caribou and Camp Canuck.

Camp Caribou will be held from July 24 to July 31 at the novitiate and apostolic school in Cornwall, Ontario. The cost will be $375. For information or to register, contact Donna Dunham campcariboummx@gmail.com (613) 834 9566. View the flyer here.





Both Conquest camps are for boys ages 10-13, offering a balanced mix of fun outdoor activities, sports, hiking, rafting, and adventure alongside spiritual and leadership formation.


http://www.regnumchristi.org/english/articulos/articulo.phtml?id=28786&se=364&ca=198&te=782
 
To again specify, there are two camp caribous. The one in Maine was owned by the Lerman family in 1968. There was no mention of a Catholic affiliation. There was another mention (from the godlikeproduction link) about another camp caribou in Canada once run by Marcel Maciel. It still exists:

It is a boys only camp for boys ages 10-13

February 9, 2010. Ontario, Canada. Canadian families who are looking for an east-coast summer camp for their boys have two great options right in eastern Canada: Camp Caribou and Camp Canuck.

Camp Caribou will be held from July 24 to July 31 at the novitiate and apostolic school in Cornwall, Ontario. The cost will be $375. For information or to register, contact Donna Dunham campcariboummx@gmail.com (613) 834 9566. View the flyer here.





Both Conquest camps are for boys ages 10-13, offering a balanced mix of fun outdoor activities, sports, hiking, rafting, and adventure alongside spiritual and leadership formation.


http://www.regnumchristi.org/english/articulos/articulo.phtml?id=28786&se=364&ca=198&te=782

Some TV news show like Dateline or 20/20 needs to do an expose on this whole mess.
 

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