IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, West Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 #4

I think he was kept alive and was abducted and kept with other boys as sexual toys for anyone that was willing to pay. I believe that the photos she was sent of him over the years were real and either someone was playing a cruel trick on her or a member of the ring actually felt sorry for johnny and the other boys and sent them to her as evidence.
 
The disappearance of Johnny Gosch

This case of disappearance is very interesting and, at the same time, extremely terrifying. Johnny Gosh was a kid back in 1982 and it was while working as a newspaper boy that he disappeared never to be seen again … in many years at least.

According to his mother, Noreen Gosch, in 1997 Johnny returned home accompanied by an unknown man. She claims that Johnny told her that he was kidnapped and ended up being the victim of a pedophile ring with dangerous people whom he could not stand up to. So that talk with his mother was only a way of saying goodbye, because he was about to change his identity and escape the public eye, because staying at her house could put his life at risk.

It is not known exactly if this conversation really happened or not, but it leaves us thinking a lot, because honestly It is something that has happened many times in the world and that, unfortunately, it seems that it will never stop happening.
Wikipedia turns 20 and we celebrate them by remembering its most disturbing entries
 
I just watched the Johnny Gosch documentary on Anazon Prime and I believe Johnny was kidnapped as part of a large organized pedophile ring. It is extremely possible he is alive. It may be true children kidnapped beyond the 90s by random strangers are not kept alive but Johnny's kidnapping was during a different time. I suspect today children are born into pedophile rings or have been groomed by someone close to them or via Internet. The prognosis for children who age out of pedophile rings is likely poor as many children were drugged and uneducated.
 
The final school photo Johnny Gosch taken before his kidnapping

50f549e45329664bee310fea860b7347.jpg


It’s never good when a child is taken from their family, but the story of Johnny Gosch, a Des Moines, Iowa paper boy, is truly strange. On the morning of Sunday, September 5, 1982 as Gosch began his morning paper route. Around 6 a.m. his parents began receiving calls that they hadn’t received their papers, which tipped them off that something was wrong. After searching he neighborhood his father found Gosch’s wheelbarrow full of papers about two blocks from their home and immediately called the West Des Moines police department.

The police initially insisted that Gosch had run away, but they reclassified him as a kidnapping victim after a woman claimed to see him in Oklahoma. No one knows what happened to Gosch, but his mother claims that he visited her in March 1997 when he showed up at her apartment with a larger man and spoke to her for about an hour and a half. Her claims have yet to be substantiated.

LINK:

Last Known Photos That Reveal A Darker Side Of History
 
Kimberely Sue Doss was a child (16) who went missing from the same area as Johnny Gosch in the same month. She was supposed to meet her Father in Davenport Iowa but never showed up. I don't know if this is relevant but it seems coincidental especially given the fact that she was potentially another sex trafficking victim. She supposedly ended up in Los Angeles being prostituted at 19. Her mother didn't think it was her because height was off but investigators did. Could she have been part of the ring that was clearly in the area (only 2 1/2 hrs distance by car)? I don't know what she is never mentioned when Johnny, Eugene and Marc are usually mentioned together.
 

Attachments

  • iu-1.jpeg
    iu-1.jpeg
    14.5 KB · Views: 9
Hello, I agree with what you've said Johnny Chicago.

Also, I believe Johnny is still alive. It's understandable that he wouldn't want to come forward now, wanting to move on with his life quietly and in recovery. I know people who've kept sexual abuse a secret their entire lives. It's just so horrendous to deal with. In Johnny's case, having been used & abused in the way I suspect he was, I can only imagine how horrible it must be. Perhaps one day he will come forward. Like everyone else, I would love to know how he's holding up.

So many people criticize Noreen. I don't understand why. In every interview I've listened to or watched, the impression I get, is that her story never changes, no one's perfect but I haven't heard her contradict herself. Its a horrible story, who'd want to believe this goes on, but it does. To me Noreen presents as an intelligent, articulate, elegant, composed and tough lady. She's stands up for herself and tells the truth without worrying if people will call her a loon or crazy or whether or not people like or support her. She's a great Mum!

I agree! Noreen is stand-up, class-act, kick-🤬🤬🤬 Mama! They're only bashing her and wanting her to shut up because they have something to hide. I can't believe law enforcement is that dumb so they must have been involved in the ring. She's done more for the case than LE.
 
Hello everyone. I am a forensic science teacher and often talk about this case. I just was wondering what happened with the DNA from Jeff Ganon? I can never find any results of that. I am also wondering what happened to the Johnny Gosch Foundation website. I cant find it anymore. Thank you in advance.
 
Hello everyone. I am a forensic science teacher and often talk about this case. I just was wondering what happened with the DNA from Jeff Ganon? I can never find any results of that. I am also wondering what happened to the Johnny Gosch Foundation website. I cant find it anymore. Thank you in advance.

I don't believe he ever submitted any DNA.
 
Hello everyone. I am a forensic science teacher and often talk about this case. I just was wondering what happened with the DNA from Jeff Ganon? I can never find any results of that. I am also wondering what happened to the Johnny Gosch Foundation website. I cant find it anymore. Thank you in advance.

Why would he need to submit DNA when he has photos clearly showing he isn't Gosch & that he was born 12 years before JG? As for the website, maybe she finally worked out how ridiculous she was looking-falling for various photos people were sending supposedly of him & children being 'abused' the most ridiculous one was of a film starring Gerard Depardieu that had a clear tv channel marking in the corner & she was promoting it as evidence of the real life torture of a child!
 
How Two Vanished Paperboys Changed the Face of the “Missing Kid” Forever

How the case of the kidnapped paperboys accelerated the “stranger danger” panic of the 1980s.

I disagree with most of the points the writer is trying to make in this article. He makes it sound as though child sex abuse and stranger abductions were rare and that campaigns to call attention to them were wrong. He claims registering sex offenders is wrong and doesn't help prevent sex attacks on children. I suppose he also thinks it was no big deal that child advocates have also helped reveal the sex abuse long hidden in US religious institutions.

Crimes against children are always wrong and society should always strive to prevent it and punish the guilty. For a long time, that didn't happen, or it efforts to stop it were ineffective. Calling attention to these abductions and other crimes against children helped provide new education for law enforcement and spurred new research into understanding how the sex abusers think, act and carry out their crimes. Adults were taught to listen to children and pay attention to their concerns, to do more to protect them.

The author also offers no links to statistics or facts to back up his assertions that these efforts have been useless, nor his unfortunate claim that society believed white children were more at risk than children of other races and ethnic groups. Also, the crime bill signed into law by Bill Clinton had nothing to do with crimes against children. I agree that the US imprisons too many people for minor infractions and laws are too draconian. But not in the area of crimes against children - specifically child abduction, murder and abuse.

Somehow he also thinks that over 300 children abducted and killed by strangers every year is no big deal.
 
"over 300 children abducted and killed by strangers every year"
Is that a fact? It seems like an incredibly high figure for the US.
So many claims of 'stranger' abductions are eventually tied to the family or the significant other of the parent. We see that daily on here.
 
So, going back to the cars at the scene, the blue car with its driver has been the one with the most attention. The driver was parked by the drop site at 42nd Street and Ashworth Rd, asked Johnny about getting to 86th Street, drove off then returned to ask Johnny and other paperboy Mike again. At that point adult John Rossi was picking up papers for his kids, and Johnny asked him to help blue car man with directions to 86th Street. Rossi says the man seemed agitated and high on drugs. After getting instructions (and getting more agitated) he closed the car door, turned on his dome light three times, then turned onto Ashworth Rd and sped off eastwards and turning left on 39th Street.

So, blue car man has been painted as either the kidnapper, or a diversion for the real kidnapper, and thus all his words and actions have been viewed in that regard. But if Johnny hadn't been taken that day? Why would we think he acted like he did? An agitated man asking for directions early in the morning? I tend to take him at his word:

Blue car man was driving to an early meeting on 86th Street, but took the wrong exit from the freeway, or got the street number wrong. Either way, he finds himself on Ashworth Rd with no idea of where to go. So he sees the pile of newspapers at the corner and decides to wait for a paperboy to ask for directions. Johnny comes, gives him directions, but they're wrong somehow (perhaps Johnny thought he meant 46th Street, which doesn't directly connect to Ashworth), so he returns for more instructions. He is now getting late for his appointment, without a clue of where he is supposed to go, and so getting more and more agitated. After getting instructions, he turns on the dome light perhaps to look at something (a note, a map, etc), then takes off back towards the freeway. Rossi's claim that he was on drugs I don't take seriously - in my experience people are poor judges of such things, and subsequent events would have given all witnesses a reason to cast remembered interactions in a more sinister light.

Personally, I would have checked 86th Street. There aren't that many houses there, and perhaps someone there could have testified about having hired or invited someone that Sunday.
 
Last edited:
[QUOTE="

Personally, I would have checked 86th Street. There aren't that many houses there, and perhaps someone there could have testified about having hired or invited someone that Sunday.[/QUOTE]


I always assumed that the man was lost because he was looking for 86th street in Clive, which turns into 22nd street in West Des Moines. This used to confuse me as a young driver unfamilar with the area.

86th is a busy commercial street in Clive. I'm not sure there was even an 86th street West Des Moines back in the 80s. The few homes there now are newer construction.
 
I always assumed that the man was lost because he was looking for 86th street in Clive, which turns into 22nd street in West Des Moines. This used to confuse me as a young driver unfamilar with the area.

86th is a busy commercial street in Clive. I'm not sure there was even an 86th street West Des Moines back in the 80s. The few homes there now are newer construction.

That is a really good point, and of course would confuse anyone in West Des Moines being asked for directions. I'm more and more convinced that the blue car man had nothing to do with the abduction.
 
I always assumed that the man was lost because he was looking for 86th street in Clive, which turns into 22nd street in West Des Moines. This used to confuse me as a young driver unfamilar with the area.

86th is a busy commercial street in Clive. I'm not sure there was even an 86th street West Des Moines back in the 80s. The few homes there now are newer construction.

Turns out you were right on the money. Here's an article from October 82 where police specified the man asked for directions to 86th Street in Clive (which turned into a different number in West Des Moines). As you say, a busy commercial street and it makes sense for someone out of town to want to get there.

It's also clear that the police were primarily interested in him to see if he had also spotted the silver Ford Fairmont, which does seem to be the main suspect here. The witness, a neighbor (Smith) who heard the slamming door and saw the car speed away, without any sign of Johnny, is the only one to have seen the actual abduction site.

The account of a "tall man" emerging from between two houses and walking towards Johnny is more elusive; here is an article from November 82 where the Gosches' PI Whelan mentions him. Further on, in March of 83 it is implied that the witness who saw the "tall man" was not Rossi (the adult who was at the dropsite at Ashworth and talked to Blue Car Guy at Johnny's request), nor brothers B (later referenced as separate witnesses seeing Johnny at Marcourt on their way back from Ashworth). That leaves paperboy Mike S (who saw Johnny talk to Blue Car Guy at Ashworth) but that doesn't seem probable as his route didn't take him up to Marcourt. I honestly suspect it is a mix-up starting with this article from two days after the abduction - where a paperboy (almost certainly Mike S) says he saw Johnny talk to a man at 42nd and Marcourt. This seems to be a distorted version of his documented sighting of Johnny talking to Blue Car Guy at Ashworth (complete with police sketch), and may have taken on its own life from there. Either way, I can't find much else on him.

Later testimonies, all filtered through Noreen Gosch and her PIs, add a bunch of stuff to this, none of it reliable. The paperboys statement that Johnny thought Blue Car Guy was "weird" (attested in 82) evolves to him being "scared" and "going home". Brothers B saying they saw Johnny sitting in his cart at Marcourt (presumably to sort his papers) evolves to "sitting slumped over" implying something was off. And poor neighbor Smith, whose simple testimony of seeing a silver car drive away evolves to him seeing the same blue car from Ashworth (1985) and then seeing the entire abduction complete with tazer (2005). Much of this is then repeated as fact in media and articles discussing the case. Chris Birge, who lived in the neighborhood, says Smith denied saying the stuff Noreen attributes to him.

It's easy to see why all the focus landed on the blue car. It had police sketches, it was constantly referenced in newspapers, and after a while you get the impression that Noreen's PIs wanted it to be the abducting car. All other strange sightings (woman taking photographs in the neighborhood, etc) are later and comes from Noreen's PI's investigations.

Of the later developments, the only one I give credence to is that of "Yellow Bag" who worked as a paper boy at the time. His claim that a man in a white Ford Fairmont tried to get him into his car the winter before Johnny's abduction, and that he later saw that man with an employee at the newspaper, Millhouse (a known pedophile).

In my view the likeliest scenario becomes this:

* Johnny leaves home with his cart, goes to pick up papers at Ashworth.
* Blue Car Guy is lost trying to get to 86th Street in Clive, stays near a paper drop at 42nd and Ashworth to find someone awake to ask. Mike S, another paperboy, sees this.
* Blue Car Guy asks Johnny for directions to 86th, then drives off, though whatever Johnny says isn't useful.
* Blue Car Guy returns to the dropsite, asks Johnny again, now in a rush and agitated. Johnny calls for Rossi, an adult there to pick up papers for his kid, to help him. Rossi gives the man directions, after which Blue Car Guy speeds off and takes a left on 39th, trying to get north to Clive.
* Johnny walks his cart up to 42nd and Marcourt where he preps his papers for delivery. Brothers B, who are delivering further north, walks past Johnny while he's working.
* As Johnny is prepping papers, a silver Ford Fairmont drives up next to him. Whatever happens, it ends with Johnny going into the car (perhaps at gunpoint, or dragged by his bag), and the car speeding off.
* An hour later, the disappearance is noticed.
 
Last edited:

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
82
Guests online
405
Total visitors
487

Forum statistics

Threads
625,634
Messages
18,507,346
Members
240,827
Latest member
shaymac4413
Back
Top