IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, West Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 #4

  • #561
[h=1]Finding Johnny Gosch: Missing child investigation continues 35 years later[/h]
DES MOINES, Iowa — Tuesday marked the 35th anniversary of the disappearance of West Des Moines paperboy Johnny Gosch.
Gosch, who was 12 at the time he disappeared, would be 47 years old today.

A generation later, there are still no answers about what happened that morning on his paper route.

“Thirty-five years, it's just a little bit over half my life (and) half of John and Noreen's life that they have been looking for their son,” said Ron Sampson, a friend of the Gosch family.
http://www.kcci.com/article/35-years-later-disappearance-of-johnny-gosch-still-an-open-case/12172643
 
  • #562
Stopping in to mention that the podcast Beyond The Darkness hosts a True Crime Tuesday series and they reposted an episode done on Johnny.
 
  • #563
  • #564
Thank you so much for speaking out about a truth nobody wants to look at. I have a lot of respect for Noreen. And I always will.
 
  • #565
National Missing Children's Day: Find NYC's Lost Kids
In 1982, West Des Moines, Iowa, paperboy Johnny Gosch, 12, never came home from his paper route. His disappearance remains unsolved.

Former President Ronald Reagan was an honored guest when the NCMEC opened its doors in 1984. A year earlier, he had proclaimed every May 25 as National Missing Children's Day.

Since then, the Department of Justice has annually commemorated National Missing Children's Day with a ceremony honoring heroic and exemplary efforts of agencies, organizations and individuals to protect children, and to coordinate efforts to reunite missing children with their families.
 
  • #566
There are numerous reasons why Johnny Gosch (at any age) might not resurface. Simply because he has reached a certain age, that does not guarantee that he is able to resurface. Some potential barriers include Stockholm Syndrome, PTSD and/or a number of other psychological conditions that likely would be intensified by the media circus and scrutiny that he'd be under, fear for his or a loved one's safety (just because a perpetrator is old or deceased doesn't mean his family wouldn't kill to keep a secret...especially if they are high profile), fear of incarceration, undeserved feelings of guilt, undeserved feelings of shame, hopelessness, helplessness...the list goes on. You are applying where you were, are, or imagine you will be at 40 something to a man who, by all accounts, from the age of 12 well into adulthood suffered unspeakably.
 
  • #567
Interesting reading....I've read it before. Unfortunately I don'[t know how much of it is truth.....it sounds so simliar to the stories from the "Satanic Panic" from the 80's. I don't see how it could have gotten up into high govt at all. The sources are dubious at best. I guess there is where I bang my head....it's no wonder people don't want to look into this case, since it all seems too crazy.

The Netflix documentary, produced in 2014, may convince you to give more consideration to the theory.
 
  • #568
Doogie,

You've certainly done a lot of work on this since we last conversed, and you have my thanks for that.

It's hard to conceive of a circumstance under which a social security number would not be necessary. You have to have one if you are an inmate, or a patient, even if you are not working for a living. Even if confidentiality is strictly adhered to, say in an institution, activity under that number should be traceable by law enforcement.

In any case, it seems hypocritical for people who claim to be devoted to exposing child exploitation and supporters of missing child institutions such as the NCMC, to abuse such systems by allowing a person who is not really missing to continue to be listed therein. The idea that Johnny himself rectifying that error would necessarily generate a media circus is false. People are quietly removed from their database all the time, with no explanations given. DOE is the same, their updates frequently contain no more information than; " X was found alive in (wherever)". Certainly, he could contact Des Moines police himself and simply say: "I'm Johnny Gosch, I don't want to talk about where I've been but I'm not missing.

And the idea that Noreen could have him declared legally dead if she knows he isn't, well, that would be a criminal act which would seem completely out of character and hypocritical.

I agree, the smaller the conspiracy the more likely to be real. How about a conspiracy of two? If a man's wife went missing and friends asking after her were told by the husband; "Yes, I just talked to her last week - she's 'on a cruise' or she's 'visiting relatives'" but there was no objective evidence to confirm that she was anywhere at all, wouldn't it be a reasonable assumption that the man's claims to be in contact with the missing woman were a smokescreen intended to cover the fact that he did away with her himself?

Two people have been responsible for most of the goose-chasing "leads" provided in this case over the years. Two people now claim to be in regular contact with a person for whom there is no objective evidence that the person is even still alive. Perhaps those two people have been covering up their own involvement in kidnapping, raping and murdering Johnny Gosch?

Assuming that Bonacci's story is true...

Suggesting that a mother would not or should not have a child declared dead to protect him, after he suffered kidnap, sexual assault, slavery, torture, and abuse, IMHO, no one gets to make that judgment call but Noreen. And your suggestion that Noreen is being hypocritical, that's heartless. She played a vital role in getting the law passed to require LE to respond immediately to all reports of missing children, thereby bypassing what had been a mandatory 72 hour wait. You can ride your moral high horse if you want to, but don't should all over Noreen.
 
  • #569
Mr. E,

Thank you for your response.

Mrs. Gosch actually alleges her ex-husband, the boy’s own father, sold him into sexual slavery? I take it theirs was not an amicable divorce.

What’s the story regarding her alleging that Mr. Gosch had several times passed another woman off as his wife? Has that been verified? Has Mr. Gosch provided any response and, if he acknowledges it, any explanation for why he would have done that?

In regard to the photos, are you familiar with the true story regarding the Tichborne claimant? Sir Roger Tichborne was the heir to a tremendous British fortune in the mid-nineteenth century. In 1854, he was lost at sea and presumed dead. He had been declared such a year later. However, his grieving mother never accepted it.

About ten years after Tichborne’s presumed death, an imposter emerged claiming to be him. He had been living in Australia in obscurity, or so he said.

Despite the fact that the imposter was tall and practically obese while Tichborne had been small and slight; despite the fact that Tichborne had had a tattoo and the imposter did not; and despite the fact that Tichborne had spoken French as his first language (despite having been English, he spoke English with a French accent) and the imposter could not speak French at all and spoke English with a lower class English accent, would it surprise you that he managed to convince Tichborne’s mother that he was actually her son?

Regarding grieving mothers, need I suggest more?

The Netflix documentary, produced in 2014, may convince you to give more consideration to the theory.
 
  • #570
This is what I had been alluding to in my first post. The fact that Johnny had been such a big kid combined with the strange coincidence of his having gone missing the very day that had been his first day out alone on his route, makes me wonder if any alternate theory to pedophilia has ever been explored.

It’s difficult to know in regard to what Mrs. Gosch recounts to take seriously and what with a grain of salt, but her assertion that there was at least one witness to a man having taken photographs of the boy not long before the presumed abduction might be accurate. I would have to assume that the police have already investigated along these lines, though.

In regard to the photos, I believe the original ones with the three boys were pretty much what the Florida police investigator claimed they were. He offered no reason why such pictures had been taken, though the anonymous letter the police received claimed that they had been taken in Tampa as the result of three boys challenging one another to an “escape contest.”

My take on that is that the letter writer had been one of the three boys, now grown, and either feeling guilty at the apparently sick attempt at a joke played on a grieving mother or was simply embarrassed as hell at seeing such pictures of himself made public and hoped they would fade away when exposed as frauds.

I don’t buy the “escape challenge” (around 1979/1980) explanation the letter writer had improvised. I think that in retrospect the man who had written the letter now realizes that he and his buddies had been conned into posing for such pictures by the man (the investigator referred to) who had taken them and staged the scenes so he could later indulge himself in his perverted fetish using them as models. Since there was no nudity or sexual acts involved, he could indulge himself with legal impunity.

I would guess that all subsequent photos sent to Mrs. Gosch were by copycats, maybe some of them by kids themselves. (“Hey, Jimmy! You want to be on a big website?!”)

I wouldn't assume that the investigators in this case have done ANY investigating on a particular aspect of this case unless I knew for certain. They couldn't be bothered at all to interview Bonacci, and they only interviewed his siblings after 10 years had lapsed from his initial claims. I highly recommend the Netflix documentary produced in 2014.
 
  • #571
That's odd. From what she wrote in her book, I assumed that Johnny went alone because he wanted to, or maybe his dad told him that it was, in fact, okay, even though Noreen had said no. Here's what she wrote in the book (it starts on p. 2):

"Johnny jumped up saying 'I am going to bed, I have to do the paper route in the morning before we go to the lake.' Before saying goodnight to everyone he asked 'Can I do my paper route alone in the morning?' His dad said 'I guess it will be okay." I immediately said 'No, your dad will go with you as always. It is so dark at 6 a.m., and I don't want you on the street alone.'"

Then she says Johnny tells her he loves her and goes to bed, and that's the last she saw him.

She also talks about the phone call she says her husband received, that he answered the phone early that morning and said "Yes, alright, yes, alright, okay," then hung up. He told her it was a wrong number. They had been receiving hang up calls at the same time for the past four weeks, but apparently her husband had never spoken to the person on the other line before.

Armchair14, did you ask earlier in this thread about the mystery woman who was Noreen's double? I can't remember, but now that I have the book in front of me, Noreen speaks of this on p. 85. It was during the filming of the 20/20 episode (which I believe was pulled at the last minute per the FBI -- according to Noreen). Noreen went to meet John DeCamp, and he said it was nice to see her again. This confused Noreen, as she'd never met him before. But DeCamp assured her that they had met before when John Gosch Sr. and she (Noreen) went to meet Paul Bonacci in prison. The secretary then points out that the woman who had been known as Mrs. Gosch and Noreen Gosch were not the same woman (although I don't know why DeCamp wouldn't notice this right away, too). They then find out that there were many phone calls from a woman claiming to be Noreen getting information about Bonacci -- but it was the imposter.

On p. 86 Noreen says that says that other people met this imposter. She was able to get a name and investigate the woman, and she was able to obtain a photo, which is printed in the book.

The FBI pulling the documentary made by the foreign film crew was substantiated in the 2014 Netflix documentary.
 
  • #572
Mstrbill - its difficult to find any accurate info about Paul Bonacci online, indeed its difficult to find any mention of him at all outside conspiracy theory websites. What I do know is that the only time his claims were ever tested in court, they were declared to be "part of a carefully crafted hoax", and Bonacci was convicted of perjury.

The other court case, in which he was awarded a million dollars, he only won by default - ie, his claims went uncontested because the defendant didn't show up to defend himself. Personally, I don't believe a word he says.

Actually, on your 2nd point, according to the 2014, Netflix documentary, that is incorrect. The judge found "sufficient evidence" to substantiate his claims. Also, what innocent man doesn't show up to court to defend his name against pedo accusations?!?
 
  • #573
I did not think the documentary was very good. Nothing really new for those who follow it. Des Moines is burnt out on the story and The Des Moines Register doesn't aggressively cover it because two of their teenage employees vanished on the job. Is local LE on it? Doesn't seem like it.
 
  • #574
I did not think the documentary was very good. Nothing really new for those who follow it. Des Moines is burnt out on the story and The Des Moines Register doesn't aggressively cover it because two of their teenage employees vanished on the job. Is local LE on it? Doesn't seem like it.

Ordinarily, those who deliver papers are not employees but are W-9, self-employed, contractors. These children were too young to be employed by the paper. There's no reason the paper should distance itself from this story.
 
  • #575
Today marks 36 years since Johnny Gosch disappeared (with clip)

Sep 5, 2018

"Today marks 36 years since West Des Moines paper boy Johnny Gosch disappeared.

The 12-year-old went missing while on his paper route. He would be 48 years old today.

West Des Moines police still considers it an active case....

Police said there is no solid evidence to suggest he is alive."

Today marks 36 years since Johnny Gosch disappeared
---

Face on the Milk Carton: What Happened to Johnny Gosch?
Decades later, the question remains...

04 Sep 2018

"It’s been well over three decades since 12-year-old Johnny Gosch vanished while on his paper route in a suburb of Des Moines, Iowa. The case is heartbreaking, and made all the more haunting by the strange theories that now seek to explain his disappearance.

That morning of September 5, 1982 started out like any other for the Gosch family. Johnny set out on his local paper route. On this particular day, however, his father did not accompany him as he usually did. By 6:00 A.M., the Gosches received calls from their neighbors complaining that their newspapers had not been delivered. Johnny’s father, John, set out to search the neighborhood. Just two blocks away from the family home, John found his son’s abandoned wagon, full of undelivered newspapers. Johnny was nowhere to be found...."

Face on the Milk Carton: What Happened to Johnny Gosch?
---

Noreen Gosch talks about disappearance of son Johnny Gosch (video clip)

"From 2012: Noreen Gosch talks about the 1982 disappearance of her son, Johnny Gosch, on the 30th anniversary of when he went missing. Register file video"

Noreen Gosch talks about disappearance of son Johnny Gosch
---

md_e6b732-milk_carton_missing_johnny_gosch-229x400.jpg


(Photo Credit: Iowa Cold Cases)
---

md_b0fd07-johnnygosch.jpg


(Photo Credit: The Johnny Gosch Foundation)
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  • #576
Thinking about Johnny and his parents today...
 
  • #577
Was Danny Heinrich a possibility in this case? I’m sure its been discussed.

ETA.... never mind. Found the discussion.
 
  • #578
Still think about Johnny... Still think about Jacob.. God knows...
 
  • #579
I hadn't heard that, Mr. E. I don't think he's Johnny either. But I do find his stipulations of taking a DNA test to be quite odd.

I agree with you. His reluctance to take the DNA test is curious.
 
  • #580
Ordinarily, those who deliver papers are not employees but are W-9, self-employed, contractors. These children were too young to be employed by the paper. There's no reason the paper should distance itself from this story.

IMOO, if the Des Moines Register handled this in a manner similar to how the Wichita media covered BTK after the case was very cold, perhaps they could draw out the person or persons involved. Media have a tremendous amount of power over information control and information flow.

I don't believe anyone holds the paper responsible. Delivering papers, mowing yards, raking leaves, and shoveling snow have been and still are in many locales, rites of passage in one's youth. I can't imagine that anyone would blame the newspaper. The city of Des Moines ought never tire of this story unless and until it's solved and justice served, otherwise, a killer or killer is walking among the good citizens and innocent children of that city.
 

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