IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #39

[Deleted member 39678]

Okay. I found an Iowa appeal case where the trial court didn't include voluntary manslaughter as a lesser included offense in the jury instructions. But they did include second degree murder as a lesser charge.

The jury was also instructed on the lesser-included offenses of second-degree murder and involuntary manslaughter, but returned a guilty verdict on the first-degree murder charge.

https://cases.justia.com/iowa/supreme-court/050883-(2010-03-19).pdf

 

[Periwinkl3]

error in text

 

[EaglesSpeical]

Indeed, the presence of the knife goes toward intent to commit bodily harm/murder. Yeah, you're right.

If it was a knife and not a screwdriver or other tool that may have been in the vehicle for another reason. MOO.

 

[gforce]

Is anyone else thinking dissociative disorder psychopath?

What is the clinical term for sub-human savage?

 

[Anthony D]

Did he always carry a knife? Or on this night. Typically if someone abducts and possibly rapes most victims never live to tell the tale. Especially when it's somebody from the area who could be identified. IMO when he gained control of Mollie she was not to survive this.

While a knife is possible since the location is Iowa there are plenty of other sharp objects that could have been used instead. Unless there has been something new found in the last 12 hours I don't believe they mentioned anything about him raping her.

 

[Periwinkl3]

In the pictures I've seen, the perp's well-groomed, with hair, beard and eyebrows well-tended. I think he saw himself as attractive to women, but he doesn't look very happy in the SM photo of IM, their baby, and himself. The New York Times (How the Suspect in Mollie Tibbetts’s Death Built a Life in an Iowa Farm Town) interviewed one of Mollie's schoolmates, who said he had made advances toward her and would contacting her online as late as 3 a.m., and that she knew he had approached other women as well. Perhaps he thought his chances of upward mobility (and legal status) might be improved if he found a local American girl to romance and perhaps marry. Or maybe he was known to the local Latina women as someone to stay away from.

 

[MassGuy]

While a knife is possible since the location is Iowa there are plenty of other sharp objects that could have been used instead. Unless there has been something new found in the last 12 hours I don't believe they mentioned anything about him raping her.

You’re right. As of now, there is no known evidence of rape. As this attack was almost certainly sexually motivated, it’s more probable than not, that Mollie was sexually assaulted in some way. There’s a chance that even if she was, we may never know.

 

[feralwriter]

Suspect in ‘violent’ homicide of 15-year-old Utah girl arrested in Colorado

I don't think these murders of women/girls often make national headlines, so I doubt this one from May of this year did. She lived 2 blocks over from me, & I went to her funeral because 15 year old girls who reject men should not be getting executed (not writing her name so my user name won't show on google). Her relatives got up and spoke, and showed likely the same strength people have no choice but to step up to as they did today at MT's service.

Someone asked the clinical term for subhuman savage. I don't know that, but I'm pretty sure of the time frame: gone a long, long time from society, & preferably forever, if justice sees light. moo

Rest in peace, Mollie, we all loved you.

 

[Bravo]

Best source is DSM 5:

Preview of Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders : DSM-5. [WorldCat.org]

Psychiatry Online | DSM Library

When I was in school it was the DSM III now i feel really old lol

 

[Bravo]

Rob Tibbetts strong to the end. I don't think I could speak in his situation just too emotional and difficult. Reminds me of a memorial service I attended for a close friend who was taken in the 9/11 attacks at the WTC. His father with whom he was very, very close had the priest read a letter he wrote to those assembled. He said it was too soon to try and speak publicly about his loss. Very emotional but as a father I understood.

So very sorry you lost a friend. I cant imagine.

 

[Seattle1]

With all due respect, I specifically said I did NOT know whether it was the same person. I didn’t link to it—although it was a legit source—and I in no way accused him of being guilty of anything in GA, except sharing a name. We already know CBR used a false ID to work in the US, and the name he used didn’t deviate much from what PD confirmed as his actual name. That means he can & did obtain false IDs, & the possibility exists he’s used his real name to derive other identities.

The point of my post was to 1) factually present the differences and the similarities between the CB in GA & IA and 2) gather insight from others in the community more knowledgeable than myself . The physical description showed that they shared the same hair color and eye color. The record was missing key information, so it wasn’t too far off to question whether it is common for records to be input incorrectly. Given that more info was ultimately provided in response to the post, it was ruled out & dropped. All this was facts-based.

The lingering questions hanging over the case right now are: 1) when did he move to Iowa? 2) Was CR here in US prior to IA? 3). Given the brutality of the crime he is accused of, statistically it’s unlikely that this is a “first-timer’s” crime. If it is more typical for perpetrators to escalate into this type of crime, then did he?

The fact is that he used a false ID and both the real & fake name is being broadcast across the US in every media source. If someone has the same name, from here forward, they will be associated—even if only by google—with references to this IA case.
I don’t agree that my post was dirty or suggestive. If a moderator determines that it was then I will certainly, without hesitation delete it. I don’t see the difference between someone sleuthing CR’s ex-g/f’s FB account, then sharing her info on here vs. citing a record of a CB from Dekalb County, Ga in arrest records (w/o a mug shot) & then asking a question about it. Through fact-based discussion, we arrived at a general conclusion that this is likely talking about 2 different people. And the topic was dropped from discussion.

Except that you're clearly misrepresenting my post by eliminating the post I replied to, and therefore editing my post (emphasis added). Let me be clear, a first time poster was misled by your post but you eliminated that. And thanks for dropping it.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

May her angel wings fly high and her soul rest peacefully.

 

[Bravo]

If it was a knife and not a screwdriver or other tool that may have been in the vehicle for another reason. MOO.

IMO it doesn't matter what type of weapon. He used it. If it was simply something he had in his car he still had to get it. Intent. He retrieved the item with intent to kill.
ETA he knew it was in his car

 

[Al Hoffman]

If it was a knife and not a screwdriver or other tool that may have been in the vehicle for another reason. MOO.

"Sharp force trauma", knife or screwdriver or whatever; again you're right! Though I would swear that one MSM story that I read sited the ME confirming that it was a knife. However, we have all seen the accuracy of media reporting in this matter.

This could account for the wave of Federal CSI that rolled into the dairy farm living quarters the afternoon that the preliminary autopsy report was released, and why the ME will be consulting with forensic anthropologists. There must be bone cuts and/or nicks.

Following this case is like nailing Jello to the wall. Just when you think you have something pinned down, the conversation heats up and the Jello melts and slides to the floor! Thanks for the feedback.

 

[otto]

IMO it doesn't matter what type of weapon. He used it. If it was simply something he had in his car he still had to get it. Intent. He retrieved the item with intent to kill.

We know that Rivera had intent to commit a crime because:

• he had previously seen Mollie jogging
• he knew her route
• he drove to that part of her route where she was particularly vulnerable (East boundary of Brooklyn)
• he circled at that less-populated part of her route until she arrived (lying in wait)
• he grabbed her and put her in his car
• the location where he abducted her (presumably where he lay in wait) is next to immediate exit from Brooklyn via backroads
• he drove 10-15 miles out of Brooklyn to hide her body
• he had a weapon
• there was nothing unusual about him the day after the murder

 

[otto]

May her angle wings fly high and her soul rest peacefully.

You remind me of something that happened with my daughter one day. I pulled into a parking space and the sign said "angle parking only". She said "we can't park here, it says angel parking only."

 

[MistyWaters]

Okay. I found an Iowa appeal case where the trial court didn't include voluntary manslaughter as a lesser included offense in the jury instructions. But they did include second degree murder as a lesser charge.


https://cases.justia.com/iowa/supreme-court/050883-(2010-03-19).pdf

This link below takes you to Iowa State Bar proforma for Juror Instructions. Rivera was charged under section 700.1 Murder In The First Degree - Premeditation, Willfulness, Deliberation - Elements“. So yes, it indicates a Judge has discretion in asking a jury to consider whatever lesser charges that are appropriate to the situation.
“If the State has proved all of the elements, the defendant is guilty of Murder In The First Degree. If the State has failed to prove any one of the elements, the defendant is not guilty of Murder In The First Degree (and you will then consider the charge of __________________ explained in Instruction No. ______).“
https://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.iowab...files/Linked_12.2017_IA_Criminal_J.pdf#page65

 

[Bravo]

While a knife is possible since the location is Iowa there are plenty of other sharp objects that could have been used instead. Unless there has been something new found in the last 12 hours I don't believe they mentioned anything about him raping her.

No they have not. It is my opine that was likely his intent. I have never stated he did. I don't think it a stretch if a female is abducted and left in a cornfield dead she may have been. It will remain to be seen if there is enough evidence to support.

 

[Sillybilly]

Apologies folks ... some of you will have received a reason your post was deleted as "posting about individual not necessarily the accused in this case". This was in error to 4 out of the 5 members who received it. Was in a hurry and forgot that I had 5 posts selected, not just the one the reason pertained to.

 

[TL4S]

We know that Rivera had intent to commit a crime because:

• he had previously seen Mollie jogging
• he knew her route
• he drove to that part of her route where she was particularly vulnerable (East boundary of Brooklyn)
• he circled at that less-populated part of her route until she arrived (lying in wait)
• he grabbed her and put her in his car
• the location where he abducted her (presumably where he lay in wait) is next to immediate exit from Brooklyn via backroads
• he drove 10-15 miles out of Brooklyn to hide her body
• he had a weapon
• there was nothing unusual about him the day after the murder

Half of which he admitted to.