IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #39

[jillycat]

Yes!!! Agree with everything you said. I don't know who you are responding to, but I do agree that he did not " feel" shame.

The issue of shame has come up off and on so I was just addressing it from my perspective. I think he did exactly what he wanted to do at the time with not a shred of shame when it was the part he liked. I don't think he likes captivity and scrutiny.

I do think SA may be what's causing him to 'forget' his crime. The killer of Jessica R insisted that he committed no SA (as if dismemberment is more respectable?) and I think a lot of these individuals know how reactive society is to sexual crimes. They know that even other males think they're the lowest of the low. JMO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Looks like "diminished responsibility" is allowed in Iowa to negate specific intent in first degree murder cases like this one.

The supreme court has held—without limitation or equivocation—the defense of diminished responsibility “is available to any crime in which specific intent is an element.” State v. McVey, 376 N.W.2d 585, 587 (Iowa 1985) (emphasis added); see State v. Jacobs, 607 N.W.2d 679, 684 (Iowa 2000) (stating defense is available “in those instances in which the State must prove defendant's specific intent as an element of the crime charged”); Veverka v. Cash, 318 N.W.2d 447, 449 (Iowa 1982) (stating defense is available “where [specific] intent is an element of the crime charged”); State v. Barney, 244 N.W.2d 316, 318 (Iowa 1976) (“Because the specific intent is of such crucial importance as to be the gist of the crime we believe it follows defendant should have been allowed to introduce evidence to negate it.”)

FindLaw's Court of Appeals of Iowa case and opinions.

 

[bluedivergirl]

Goat yoga is a current (or passing) fad. I'm waiting to see if ' Running with bears (or wolves)' could become the next wave.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. MOO

Bears is the only way I'm gonna run.

 

[EaglesSpeical]

We don't know that he is a stranger. He's lived in the area for 4 years. Mollie might have seen him with his ex-girlfriend.

Or he called to her by her name. She being the outgoing, nice person she was slowed down to see who was calling to her from behind. Once he caught up and she realized he had bad intentions (or seemed off etc.) then the threat to call police and it went from there. Seems very likely he knew her first name and only takes split second when someone calling out your name (she had headphones on but probably could he her name shouted from close range). MOO and speculation on my part.

 

[EaglesSpeical]

Looks like "diminished responsibility" is allowed in Iowa to negate specific intent in first degree murder cases like this one.



FindLaw's Court of Appeals of Iowa case and opinions.

Diminished capacity at time of crime (blackout) or in general? I would think the latter but honestly do not know.

 

[MsBetsy]

Ms Betsy, are you a psychologist? Just wondering what your best diagnosis would be at this point? I have a online research type education, part of it personal to me, and I have my ideas, but what do you think? (Sorry if you’ve posted your idea before, sometimes the thread moves too fast to keep up!)

I don't have a PHD, so, no, but I have my MA and experience. I think anyone with someone in the family with a disorder has experience. I'm not an expert, it would be great if we did have one on here. You can take or leave anything I say! I'm familiar with it, and have worked in the field, and it has always interested me. My parents didn't even believe in psychology, and once( during parents weekend) told my advisor I was going to ruin my life majoring in it!! ( maybe they were right) But I think we can all guess at a diagnosis, if they do find he has one, which I believe he has, at least, some serious issues. Only a licensed Psychologist or psychiatrist can conduct and score testing, but we can always guess. Certainly I can message you and we can do our own " analysis" based on what we know. It would be very helpful when we learn more about his background, especially his childhood and family dynamics. It's a huge and important part of the evaluation. I can't wait to hear what the psychologists have to say!

 

[Quill]

We don't know that he is a stranger. He's lived in the area for 4 years. Mollie might have seen him with his ex-girlfriend.

True, but seeing him around and getting into the car with him are light years apart, IMO. Mom and/or brother was just a phone call away.

I once hit the pavement hard while out running. No idea why I even fell. It was a freaky thing, but anyway, I rolled my ankle hard, gouged a hole in my knee so deep that I still have a scar 7 years later and took the hide off my palms where I caught myself. I was lucky I didn't damage my knee internally. I hobbled the 1/2 mile home. I am speaking for myself, but I would not have gotten in the car with anyone but a very close friend or relative, not even that day.

It might be hard to understand, but I bet other runners will get it. There is a real feeling of freedom out on the road letting yourself go under your own power. But there is also a real vulnerability, too, and it gets exposed anytime someone breaks that barrier of personal space. I have had that scary experience of being followed/chased/accosted while on a run. My pepper spray saved me that day. So that "barrier" of personal space becomes very important and it is ingrained in me that once that is breached someone may not have good intentions. It's just part of the precautionary state of a female out running alone. This also applies to getting into a car with someone other that a very trusted friend or relative. That would be the ultimate in vulnerability IMO.

So I just cannot see her voluntarily getting into the car with him. I will add that I grew up in a town about the size of Brooklyn and lived there all of my childhood and teens. I understand the small town way of knowing everyone in town and believe me when I say, you still did't just accept rides from people just because you had seen them around.

 

[Seattle1]

@ellieuma said: ↑
Someone sharing his first and middle name (the Rivera is missing) was arrested In DeKalb Co Georgia in Oct 2015. There isn’t a mug shot and the height is listed at 5’0 (not 5’6”) Birthday listed has year only (not mm/dd/) 1997 & age as 18. I don’t know how often mistakes are made in arrest records, but it spelled his first name like he spells it...

On the DeKalb County Clerk website, it has the DOB listed as 10/03/1997, height listed as 5'9", and the charge listed as theft by shoplifting.

Welcome to WS - you're among friends here! Please be reminded that WS is a "fact based" forum. Considering we do not have confirmation of CR's compound name, posting info from GA that doesn't even meet his physical description is not appropriate. Keep it clean. Rumors grow legs...

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Diminished capacity at time of crime (blackout) or in general? I would think the latter but honestly do not know.

In a case like this I assume it's a defense used to get an acquittal on first degree murder which needs to prove intent.

I haven't looked to see if Iowa uses lesser included charges yet. JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

He said he 'blacks out'; so 'diminished capacity' might come into it.

Only if he had called LE immediately upon discovering her body in the trunk of his car, totally dumbfounded over what happened.

Instead he admitting to stalking Mollie, he admitted he got mad (aka rage) when she threatened to call 911, he admitted hiding and concealing the body in a location unlikely to be easily found and then weeks later when he was questioned, led LE to that same rural location. That’s not diminished capacity - that’s bang on admitting his involvement.

For all we know, he may have told the rest of the story after the affidavit was typed, as what was printed and released to the public just happened to adequately support the 1st degree murder charge. At this point in time, it’s all the general public really needs to know while honouring the memory of Molly IMO.

 

[Bravo]

We were away this weekend. Glad we are home and I can watch the Funeral Mass. RIP Mollie. So loved and so missed.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I don't have a PHD, so, no, but I have my MA and experience. I think anyone with someone in the family with a disorder has experience. I'm not an expert, it would be great if we did have one on here. You can take or leave anything I say! I'm familiar with it, and have worked in the field, and it has always interested me. My parents didn't even believe in psychology, and once( during parents weekend) told my advisor I was going to ruin my life majoring in it!! ( maybe they were right) But I think we can all guess at a diagnosis, if they do find he has one, which I believe he has, at least, some serious issues. Only a licensed Psychologist or psychiatrist can conduct and score testing, but we can always guess. Certainly I can message you and we can do our own " analysis" based on what we know. It would be very helpful when we learn more about his background, especially his childhood and family dynamics. It's a huge and important part of the evaluation. I can't wait to hear what the psychologists have to say!

It would probably be helpful to either use links to support your ideas about psychology or say it's just your opinion.

 

[geevee]

Or he called to her by her name. She being the outgoing, nice person she was slowed down to see who was calling to her from behind. Once he caught up and she realized he had bad intentions (or seemed off etc.) then the threat to call police and it went from there. Seems very likely he knew her first name and only takes split second when someone calling out your name (she had headphones on but probably could he her name shouted from close range). MOO and speculation on my part.

Maybe he was already brandishing the knife when he approached her.

 

[Quill]

Bears is the only way I'm gonna run.

Haha! My friend says that to me all the time to which I reply, " Who do you think the bear is going to catch first, you or me?" LOL

 

[MsBetsy]

Is that based on psychology studies, personal observation or opinion... just need clarification, thanks!

Sorry i forgot to add, about the research, when I have time, I can get look for a good article that is easy to read and not full of complicated terms. There are many, but with my limited experience with computers anyone would find it faster than me. Just make sure it is a valid source. The Journal of Psychology is a good one, and there are many others if you are looking for research.

 

[SteveP]

As we are gathered here, roughly 15 minutes from the beginning of the funeral mass for Mollie, I invite any of you that are so inclined to join me in a moment of quiet reflection on the life of this young woman that we all feel like we know now, a young woman that we feel, at least on some very small level, belongs to us all, and say a silent prayer for, or send good thoughts to her loved ones as they face this most difficult couple of hours.

 

[Al Hoffman]

He said he 'blacks out'; so 'diminished capacity' might come into it.

CR is reported (in the arrest warrant affidavit) to have said he "blocked out". That sounds more like a willful act, and less like a psych or physiological event. So NO, BS if his attorney tries for a diminished capacity defence. Even if it was a "red out" on CR's part, he still premeditated and showed specific intent by stalking her in his car, and approaching her (by his own admission) putting himself in a position to kidnap (felony murder rule) and/or kill her before his convenient "block out". He told LE that he has previously had these block outs when he gets angry. So, why did he put himself in a position to cause immediate and lethal harm, in a situation that a reasonable and prudent man would recognize as having the potential to bring on a "block out". For CR, this is no different than DUI, but he was "stalking while angry". CR is guilty of premeditation and intent before he pointed and launched his leathal self at MT. At that point he is as guilty of Murder One of MT, as if he had unleashed a pack of dogs on her. He tracked her down with malice aforethought, slipped his leash, and killed her. He is guilty, will be found as such and go to jail for the rest of his life!

 

[MsBetsy]

Agreed.
Just the fact that the "earbud
came up in his vocabulary and "on his lap"...... I am guessing these are things that really play a part in what happened.

I think we may be on the same wavelength, for sure. Why did that particular detail come to his mind...

 

[The Farm]

Oh no,,,,I just hit the live video with the tracker to see if it was up and it looks like you have to join and pay???

 

[MsBetsy]

The issue of shame has come up off and on so I was just addressing it from my perspective. I think he did exactly what he wanted to do at the time with not a shred of shame when it was the part he liked. I don't think he likes captivity and scrutiny.

I do think SA may be what's causing him to 'forget' his crime. The killer of Jessica R insisted that he committed no SA (as if dismemberment is more respectable?) and I think a lot of these individuals know how reactive society is to sexual crimes. They know that even other males think they're the lowest of the low. JMO

I agree. They may not feel shame, but they are acutely aware of what others think.