IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #39

[Warwick7]

I'm wondering if wore them to block out her sounds and finish what he came to do. It could have dropped out of his ear if they were wireless onto his lap in the car. IDK

Someone else brought up that maybe the earbud was a trophy. And he purposely put it on his lap.

 

[Quill]

And currently in Mississippi, with "Good Time" 20 years for the murder of a child is 12 and a 1/3 years.

If you can last 12 years in Parchman.....

 

[MsBetsy]

I'm wondering if wore them to block out her sounds and finish what he came to do. It could have dropped out of his ear if they were wireless onto his lap in the car. IDK

I'm not sure that's what Warwick7 is indicating...

 

[MsBetsy]

Are you talking about premeditation?

The felony murder rule says that premeditation exists if the defendant was participating in a forcible felony like sexual abuse. JMO

But I thought it said that it would have to contribute to the cause of death in order to apply? Or is that what you ARE saying?

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Good point on the last bit. As to the rest, well good luck to the defense if that's indeed what they will do. I just don't see how they are going to get around it.

There is no need to "get around" it as long as CR maintains 'silence' on what may have occurred during that "blocked memory" period. The prosecution would have to prove CR really didn't experience a "blocked memory" episode. How do you prove that? A history of "blocked memory" episodes helps the defense; if this is a first-time "blocked memory" event, it significantly helps the prosecution in that it could be presented as 'proof' that CR at least subconsciously knew what he was doing was wrong (read: heinous) that he blocked that memory. I believe this pivots on whether or not CR's defense can prove a history of such episodes occurring stressful or highly-emotional circumstances. MOO

I suppose the prosecution could ask the judge to permit/order a hypnosis interview to 'help' CR 'unblock' that memory.

 

[MistyWaters]

I don't believe that she threatened him at all. He threatened her. He alleges that she threatened him because he wants to blame her for his imaginary block out that caused him to murder her.

He stalked her, learned her habits and running route, lay in wait for her to be alone on the East boundary of Brooklyn, he abducted her and threw her into his car. He then drove her out of Brooklyn, assaulted her, stabbed her multiple times, and hid her body. He was not interested in chatting with her.

I didn’t write that Mollie threatened Rivera. In the affidavit it was stated by him that she grabbed her phone and said she was going to call police. Why do you think he’d voluntarily inform LE of that specific interaction if it wasn’t true, as it indicates she felt compelled to be protected from him.

In my opinion this case involves the age-old scenario whereby not everybody respects the boundaries of others and more specifically, that Rivera “lost it” when Mollie said “no”. Not only that, deep deception - his lack of remorse motivated him to cover up his despicable deed and go on to pretend everything was absolutely normal.

 

[Al Hoffman]

Maybe someone can explain this to me but let’s say a sexual assault did happen, wouldn’t DNA from semen still be present even if decomposition was in full effect? Or, does that type of DNA decompose with the body? Not trying to be graphic, I’m just genuinely curious.

**********GRAPHIC WARNING***********
To swab a vagina for semen, you must first have a... Muscle is made of protein, as is the body part in question. The process of anarobic bacterial post-mortem putrafication is the breakdown of proteins and everything else by other bacteria, mold and enzymes. Bacteria and mold will degrade DNA, as it is made of sugars and amino acids; all stuff that bacteria can digest. After 5ish weeks in the Iowa summer heat, in the shade of the corn plants, how much soft tissue will be left to be swabed on the skeletonizing body, in a pool of soupy liquification? Sure, you can get the body's DNA from a tooth if necessary, but what are the chances of finding markers for that small amount of male DNA left with the body, in that mess. And I have not even discussed insect and animal activity. The chances of finding CR's DNA on the body, if present, are likely none to maybe. But the FBI forensic labs are the best, and if any one can do it, they can!

 

[ChuckMaureen]

A doubly-sickening thought has occurred to me: what IF this was only about stealing MT's phone and ear buds? Maybe CR believed all he had to do was run up to MT, pursue a bit as he figured how he might grab the phone and buds and take off in his vehicle? MT fought back and that's why CR ultimately did what he did?

I'm just throwing this out there; it's possible the defense might argue their case with this approach. They will have to diminish intent.

 

[Quill]

$92 and change a day. However, I still want to know how much Louisiana would charge Iowa to put CR to work in the farm fields at Angola. The guards are on horseback. It also has cattle, and CR could work his way back up to the dairy.
Angola is self-sufficient. It grows the food that it feeds the inmates with, using convict labor, in the hot Delta sun! It sells the surplus to defray costs. It even has a rodeo every year. Call your state rep and ask why your state prison is not a good, old fashion, prison farm!

And they build their own caskets! The Rev. Billy Graham was buried in a casket made at Angola by his personal request.

 

[MistyWaters]

Clearly he stalked her, but it's most likely that she didn't realize it. I have read many claims that someone was on someone's facebook page, but in real life, other than her murder, there's no known connection between Mollie and her murderer.

"He and Tibbetts have no known connections other than that Rivera allegedly told investigators that he saw her running previously."

Medical examiner says Mollie Tibbetts died from stab wounds

Unfortunately it only takes a fleeting and brief casual encounter, something as innocent as tossing a stranger a smile for a recipient who’s somewhat unhinged to develop an inappropriate obsession because friendlessness is mistakingly interpreted as genuine interest. Aka Fatal attraction.

 

[Warwick7]

"I can't really speak to you about the motive," Rahn said.
(There is much he can't or is not at liberty to tell us.)

"I can just tell you it seems that he followed her and seemed to be drawn to her on that particular day and for whatever reason he chose to abduct her."
(Again he can "just tell us" a few things. He used the word seem twice. Not sure why, maybe someone can expound on that. And he CHOSE to ABDUCT her. And what is behind "that particular day"?)

 

[Al Hoffman]

And especially not for a fee. Somewhat disappointed in DR and their local coverage of this horrific crime. We've had more updates & details from DMail. Also, DailyM was first to provide Mollie's Dad's quote.... MOO

Give the devil it's due...

 

[jillycat]

I didn’t write that Mollie threatened Rivera. In the affidavit it was stated by him that she grabbed her phone and said she was going to call police. Why do you think he’d voluntarily inform LE of that specific interaction if it wasn’t true, as it indicates she felt compelled to be protected from him.

In my opinion this case involves the age-old scenario whereby not everybody respects the boundaries of others and more specifically, that Rivera “lost it” when Mollie said “no”. Not only that, deep deception - his lack of remorse motivated him to cover up his despicable deed and go on to pretend everything was absolutely normal.

I don't see his voluntary statements as necessarily honest. He left out the part of the story where he murdered her. I think he feels fine about offering snips of truth, lies, and leaving gaping holes where it matters most. This is someone who knew where Mollie was and that her family was desperate to find her and he had nothing to say. So I believe that what he had to say once he was caught is just as self-serving.

 

[Peaches96]

**********GRAPHIC WARNING***********
To swab a vagina for semen, you must first have a... Muscle is made of protein, as is the body part in question. The process of anarobic bacterial post-mortem putrafication is the breakdown of proteins and everything else by other bacteria, mold and enzymes. Bacteria and mold will degrade DNA, as it is made of sugars and amino acids; all stuff that bacteria can digest. After 5ish weeks in the Iowa summer heat, in the shade of the corn plants, how much soft tissue will be left to be swabed on the skeletonizing body, in a pool of soupy liquification? Sure, you can get the body's DNA from a tooth if necessary, but what are the chances of finding markers for that small amount of male DNA left with the body, in that mess. And I have not even discussed insect and animal activity. The chances of finding CR's DNA on the body, if present, are likely none to maybe. But the FBI forensic labs are the best, and if any one can do it, they can!

Thank you so much for the information. That makes a lot of sense. Thank you for clarifying this for me!

 

[Deleted member 39678]

But I thought it said that it would have to contribute to the cause of death in order to apply? Or is that what you ARE saying?

No. It's says this.

However, the Iowa Supreme Court has concluded that if an act causing willful injury as a forcible felony is the same act that causes the victim’s death, that act cannot serve as the predicate felony for felony murder purposes.

Murder/Homicide in Iowa - GRL Law Firm

 

[Anthony D]

I don't see CR's statement carefully stated. We have been only give "parts"... We don't have a LE video (yet), and we don't have a written statement. We haven't even been given the full autopsy report.

I am sure there is much more the LE knows, but I'm just going by what the affidavit says and not making assumptions. There is a time period between him chasing her and getting her in the trunk which are considered "blocked memory".

 

[JudgeJoe]

And especially not for a fee. Somewhat disappointed in DR and their local coverage of this horrific crime. We've had more updates & details from DMail. Also, DailyM was first to provide Mollie's Dad's quote.... MOO

Hey Seattle1, where’s the DR video bypass thingamajig you mentioned? I’m on iPhone & don’t see it...

 

[Al Hoffman]

"I can't really speak to you about the motive," Rahn said.
(There is much he can't or is not at liberty to tell us.)

"I can just tell you it seems that he followed her and seemed to be drawn to her on that particular day and for whatever reason he chose to abduct her."
(Again he can "just tell us" a few things. He used the word seem twice. Not sure why, maybe someone can expound on that. And he CHOSE to ABDUCT her. And what is behind "that particular day"?)

Chose goes to premeditation and intent on the part of CR, key elements in making a Murder One charge.

 

[otto]

I didn’t write that Mollie threatened Rivera. In the affidavit it was stated by him that she grabbed her phone and said she was going to call police. Why do you think he’d voluntarily inform LE of that specific interaction if it wasn’t true, as it indicates she felt compelled to be protected from him.

In my opinion this case involves the age-old scenario whereby not everybody respects the boundaries of others and more specifically, that Rivera “lost it” when Mollie said “no”. Not only that, deep deception - his lack of remorse motivated him to cover up his despicable deed and go on to pretend everything was absolutely normal.

According to the suspect, Mollie threatened him when she allegedly threatened to report him to police. He voluntarily made this statement so he could blame Mollie for causing him to "rage" and "block out". That is, if she had not threatened him, he would not have raged, and she would be alive.

This man stalked Mollie. He lay in wait. He attacked her. He drove her 12 miles from where he found her. He stabbed her multiple times. He hid the body. How can we possibly suggest that Mollie rejected him and therefore he "lost it". How can we possibly think that what he did in any way equates to "asking her on a date".

 

[MistyWaters]

A doubly-sickening thought has occurred to me: what IF this was only about stealing MT's phone and ear buds? Maybe CR believed all he had to do was run up to MT, pursue a bit as he figured how he might grab the phone and buds and take off in his vehicle? MT fought back and that's why CR ultimately did what he did?

I'm just throwing this out there; it's possible the defense might argue their case with this approach. They will have to diminish intent.

It wouldn’t matter, as conviction doesn’t require that the motive ever be proven. Otherwise few homicide prosecutions would be successful - the perp shuts up, victim is no longer alive, who’s there to know ‘why’?

Even if Rivera claimed that, robbery is no go free card for murder as his possession and subsequent use of the weapon “multiple times” can (hopefully) be interpreted by a jury as homicidal intent.