IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #40

[The Farm]

There was one Gal who stated that killer had a short temper but didn't expand beyond that. Anyone remember that?

I do,,,,was it someone in Mexico that they interviewed that said that? Or the girlfriend that kept in touch with Mollie that had visited Brooklyn I think it was in April? She had moved away but goes back to visit relatives? It was recent that I read it and I believe it was on here. I wish this had a voice activation so we could talk into it, ask the question and it would just pop up!

 

[MsBetsy]

Aloha Kapua I lived in Kahana during the Charli Scott case. Exactly. And I was also thinking about was when they found her bone fragments 5 months later they also found five fingernails, skin fragments, clumps of red hair and a body piercing with some flesh attached. Many here have mentioned DNA and such. Hopefully they will have much more in the case of MT.

That's what I was wondering about the nails. Even though they fall off after a couple of weeks, couldn't they still be found intact? It doesn't seem likely they would break down like the skin, tissues, muscles and organs. I would think they would be in the same condition or similar, as they were when they fell off? I've heard people say that fingernails are " dead" whatever that means. Does anyone know what they are made of and what happens after they fall off the body?

 

[Bravo]

I do,,,,was it someone in Mexico that they interviewed that said that? Or the girlfriend that kept in touch with Mollie that had visited Brooklyn I think it was in April? She had moved away but goes back to visit relatives? It was recent that I read it and I believe it was on here. I wish this had a voice activation so we could talk into it, ask the question and it would just pop up!

Now that would be a cool feature here. If memory serves me it was a friend of Mollie's. Yes it could be the one who moved away.

 

[TL4S]

If thats the case, why was he in that area in the first place?

Yes, I've wondered that, too. Why THAT spot? Was it just convenient, or was he familiar?

 

[Deleted member 718]

Wow, that’s interesting! If that data is available in this case, that’s huge! Had LE not located the Chevy Malibu that was sighted cruising around Brooklyn that night, I wonder if they could’ve eventually tracked it down by subpoenaing OnStar as well?

I think all they'd need is VIN. If they had tag#, they have VIN.
CR is up sh*t creek without a paddle.

 

[Al Hoffman]

A couple of articles for you.
Persistence of spermatozoa and prostatic acid phosphatase in specimens from deceased individuals during varied postmortem intervals. - PubMed - NCBI
The recovery of seminal components and DNA from the vagina of a homicide victim 34 days postmortem. - PubMed - NCBI
The second is a case study from Maine where they were able to recover both seminal components and DNA from a female 34 days postmortem.
and lastly this one:
[The forensic expertise of cadavers of females suspected to be victims of sexually motivated homicide]. - PubMed - NCBI

It's why DNA has become an intriguing field. Even with touch DNA there is conflict on how long that DNA lasts. Let's say you're being tried for a murder, your DNA was found at the crime scene. You could argue, and win, that your DNA was left there long before the crime occurred, possibly even years earlier, because there is no "set" time for the degradation of DNA. In a corpse, on the soil, under corn leaves, there is a difference in the rate of degradation of the corpse itself, but interior areas, for lack of a better term, hold on to things like seminal and epithelial DNA. The putrification process makes "pockets" for preservation of DNA, much like teeth (in older cadavers) and the inner ear (in less degraded cadavers).

I read the abstracts you cited (would love to be able to read the original articles). Not one cited frequency.

Sure, you may be able to find perp DNA in an individual case after a month of decomp, but not every time, and that is my point, that it is a crap shoot as to whether or not usable perp DNA will be found on or in MT, especially male gametocyte DNA! One black swan does not mean that I will see one every time I go fishing!

I totally agree with the final line of the later article that encourages looking for spermatazoa even at 1.5 to 5 months post-mortem, because they MAY be found if you look for them. Never give up, never surrender. Leave no tern unstoned. No argument on that point at all. The point of the article is that you should look, because while it's unlikely YOU might just luck out and find something. "...there's gotta be a pony in here somewhere"

Also, the 34 day single case outlier you cite was found in Maine. In a Maine winter, I completely agree that DNA, and the rest of the body, may keep for months, it's a deep freeze! What were the environmental conditions associated with that corpse's decomp? I think you might be able to even keep frozen embryos in a river in Main in January. Maybe that's Pluto, I get confused when I drink.

With MT we are talking about an Iowa Summer. I've been there, sweated that, and embarrised the school administration into buying additional window AC units for the main lecture hall. Iowa (eventually) gets hot in the summer. In July of '83 It was 102 in the afternoon- destroyed the corn crop.

You have said in several posts that DNA is somehow more resistant from degradation, by the 1000's of bacterial species associated with decomp, than other bio-molecules. Again, I ask you to please document this. DNA is made up of the same building blocks as the rest of the body, ALL of which bacteria were made to breakdown and metabolize. It's a great circle of life thing.

In your final paragraph, you conflate perp and victim DNA. I TOTALLY agree that viable VICTIM DNA can be obtained from the interior of molars or the inner ear bones of a skull found on a dog walk, perhaps years later (Like the 500+ year DNA Half-Life you have previously mentioned)
But I defy you, or anyone else, to find perp DNA in either location unless there was an icepick and some really kinky sex involved!

I do grasp your point that there are pockets that may be formed that could hold male gametocyte DNA (like the cul-de-sac/pouch of Douglas). But the problem is that with an advanced enough state of decomp, you can't swab a vagina if there isn't one left to swab. And as far as touch DNA is concerned, that would likely be the first to go, with the effect of rain and decomp.

There is a much better chance that CR's DNA will be found on MT's clothes, but bacteria and mold and fungi can also degrade that, with time and summer heat.

I agree that DNA is a robust molecule, and there is a lot of it, even in a single cell, but ALL things degrade, entropy is harsh in that way.

 

[jillycat]

No they wouldn't have forensics but they may have told him what they did know and threw in what they thought.

Yes, because they would hardly just hope he's give it all up because they asked him some questions, and then lead them to her. So they said something that compelled him to talk as much as he did.

 

[Al Hoffman]

I used to work extracting DNA from hair. I don't know anything about forensics, but I do know when an animal dies in a field, there is oftentimes hair scattered around the decomposing body. Does hair have a slower rate of decomposition? I do know under the right conditions, hair follicles are an excellent source of DNA.

I agree with you, I think that an intact hair and follicle is the best chance for viable DNA evidence that could link CBR to the dump site, after a month in the elements. Really appreciate your input.

 

[Deleted member 718]

Honestly I doubt he was “drawn to her” in the past, nor do I think he was out stalking her but rather just out cruising around town and tried to pick up on her. I wish I knew how he first met his ex... she was a high schooler at Brooklyn, it wouldn’t be unusual that he first met her while out driving around town too.

I was thinking something with the Hispanic community, like a quinceañera, or other holiday celebration.

 

[Peaches96]

That's what I was wondering about the nails. Even though they fall off after a couple of weeks, couldn't they still be found intact? It doesn't seem likely they would break down like the skin, tissues, muscles and organs. I would think they would be in the same condition or similar, as they were when they fell off? I've heard people say that fingernails are " dead" whatever that means. Does anyone know what they are made of and what happens after they fall off the body?

They are made of keratin which is a protein. Here’s a super interesting article on the breakdown of human remains but it is GRAPHIC and has real photos of human remains so read with caution. Personally, I find it fascinating but then again, I love all things science
What happens to your body after you die? [WARNING: Graphic Content]

 

[Bravo]

I also wonder if when he gave LE his phone he knew it would be a wealth of info. LE stated he was cooperative so I am going on the assumption he readily handed over his phone. IMO this questioning took place over many, many hours until he broke. All IMO.

 

[tmar]

Sadly, I think we will find out that she was sexually assaulted.

I am still uneasy by his statements that he used his cell phone to trace back where he left her...but then showed LE where he left her from memory.

He chooses when he can remember.
Thinks he is so smart.
Now he can think, and remember, all the 'great' times he is having in Prison: maybe for life.

 

[Tink56]

Chevy Malibu's have the OnStar navigation system. It records gps locations of everywhere the car goes. Even if you don't subscribe to the OnStar program, the car still records it all. Once LE found the right Malibu, they could supoena GMC for past gps locations. Similar to a plane's black box. CR's goose was cooked even without cell phone geolocation info.

OnStar Tracks Your Car Even When You Cancel Service

"Navigation-and-emergency-services company OnStar is notifying its six million account holders that it will keep a complete accounting of the speed and location of OnStar-equipped vehicles, even for drivers who discontinue monthly service."

"Collecting location and speed data via GPS might also create a treasure trove of data that could be used in criminal and civil cases."

What model year was the car?
It may depend on whether or not the OnStar feature was in use and/or in the vehicle.

 

[MsBetsy]

Honestly I doubt he was “drawn to her” in the past, nor do I think he was out stalking her but rather just out cruising around town and tried to pick up on her. I wish I knew how he first met his ex... she was a high schooler at Brooklyn, it wouldn’t be unusual that he first met her while out driving around town too.

I believe he was planning the attack for a few days, at least. He admitted to seeing her in the area and may have been waiting for the perfect time to isolate, corner, and attack. I don't believe the part of his story that he suddenly was angered and went into a rage, although that played a role , he may have been trying to provoke that threat to call police, or at least any negative response, if he really did run behind her and along side her. Its just my opinion that he was planning a vicious attack for his own gratification, but I firmly believe it.

 

[Al Hoffman]

Chevy Malibu's have the OnStar navigation system. It records gps locations of everywhere the car goes. Even if you don't subscribe to the OnStar program, the car still records it all. Once LE found the right Malibu, they could supoena GMC for past gps locations. Similar to a plane's black box. CR's goose was cooked even without cell phone geolocation info.

OnStar Tracks Your Car Even When You Cancel Service

"Navigation-and-emergency-services company OnStar is notifying its six million account holders that it will keep a complete accounting of the speed and location of OnStar-equipped vehicles, even for drivers who discontinue monthly service."

"Collecting location and speed data via GPS might also create a treasure trove of data that could be used in criminal and civil cases."

This might explain a recent supeona issued in relation to CBR.

 

[otto]

You’re trying to envision a route that would take you through the other Points of Interest and end up where the body was located? You can’t do it without wandering around a bit.

Anybody who is driving around with an abduction victim is going to take the back roads.

 

[Chichi baby]

I read the abstracts you cited (would love to be able to read the original articles). Not one cited frequency.

Sure, you may be able to find perp DNA in an individual case after a month of decomp, but not every time, and that is my point, that it is a crap shoot as to whether or not usable perp DNA will be found on or in MT, especially male gametocyte DNA! One black swan does not mean that I will see one every time I go fishing!

I totally agree with the final line of the later article that encourages looking for spermatazoa even at 1.5 to 5 months post-mortem, because they MAY be found if you look for them. Never give up, never surrender. Leave no tern unstoned. No argument on that point at all. The point of the article is that you should look, because while it's unlikely YOU might just luck out and find something. "...there's gotta be a pony in here somewhere"

Also, the 34 day single case outlier you cite was found in Maine. In a Maine winter, I completely agree that DNA, and the rest of the body, may keep for months, it's a deep freeze! What were the environmental conditions associated with that corpse's decomp? I think you might be able to even keep frozen embryos in a river in Main in January. Maybe that's Pluto, I get confused when I drink.

With MT we are talking about an Iowa Summer. I've been there, sweated that, and embarrised the school administration into buying additional window AC units for the main lecture hall. Iowa (eventually) gets hot in the summer. In July of '83 It was 102 in the afternoon- destroyed the corn crop.

You have said in several posts that DNA is somehow more resistant from degradation, by the 1000's of bacterial species associated with decomp, than other bio-molecules. Again, I ask you to please document this. DNA is made up of the same building blocks as the rest of the body, ALL of which bacteria were made to breakdown and metabolize. It's a great circle of life thing.

In your final paragraph, you conflate perp and victim DNA. I TOTALLY agree that viable VICTIM DNA can be obtained from the interior of molars or the inner ear bones of a skull found on a dog walk, perhaps years later (Like the 500+ year DNA Half-Life you have previously mentioned)
But I defy you, or anyone else, to find perp DNA in either location unless there was an icepick and some really kinky sex involved!

I do grasp your point that there are pockets that may be formed that could hold male gametocyte DNA (like the cul-de-sac/pouch of Douglas). But the problem is that with an advanced enough state of decomp, you can't swab a vagina if there isn't one left to swab. And as far as touch DNA is concerned, that would likely be the first to go, with the effect of rain and decomp.

There is a much better chance that CR's DNA will be found on MT's clothes, but bacteria and mold and fungi can also degrade that, with time and summer heat.

I agree that DNA is a robust molecule, and there is a lot of it, even in a single cell, but ALL things degrade, entropy is harsh in that way.

Its difficult to read all about decomp, skin decaying, nails falling off etc when I still picture poor Mollie in that beautiful dress. So very sad..

 

[MsBetsy]

I do,,,,was it someone in Mexico that they interviewed that said that? Or the girlfriend that kept in touch with Mollie that had visited Brooklyn I think it was in April? She had moved away but goes back to visit relatives? It was recent that I read it and I believe it was on here. I wish this had a voice activation so we could talk into it, ask the question and it would just pop up!

I know there were some reports of him pursuing females, but I had not heard of the girl reporting a bad temper. I would like to see that as well, if anyone can find it. It depends on the source, too. In my opinion some are more reliable than others!

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I don't think there is any way they could have known that at the time.

The fbi is available to any law enforcement entity in the country. If a sizable incident occurs in a small department/community it takes one phone call to enhance investigation staff. In addition to the sheer numbers, feds also bring in the best expertise in the world. Fortunately the Sheriff of Poweshiek county public realized the zr is weé

That's what I was wondering about the nails. Even though they fall off after a couple of weeks, couldn't they still be found intact? It doesn't seem likely they would break down like the skin, tissues, muscles and organs. I would think they would be in the same condition or similar, as they were when they fell off? I've heard people say that fingernails are " dead" whatever that means. Does anyone know what they are made of and what happens after they fall off the body?

Fingernails and toenails are made of a tough protective protein called alpha-keratin.

A nail is a horn-like envelope covering the tips of the fingers and toes in most primates and a few other mammals. Nails are similar to claws in other animals. Fingernails and toenails are made of a tough protective protein called alpha-keratin. This protein is also found in the hooves and horns of different animals.

 

[ACG2x]

See my sig for why I think this but the final explanation of why this happened will be very simple:

Killer's version at trial/plea agreement talks
- He knew Mollie from around town, thought she was cute, liked her and so on
- Saw her jogging and finally decided to approach her
- He politely asked Mollie how she was doing, can they talk sometime?
- Mollie went into freakout mode and threatened to call police even though he meant no harm
- He panicked and tried to run alongside her and tell her no that's not what he meant, please don't, etc. because of his illegal immigrant status
- He's worried sick about what the government and police will do if they think the illegal Mexican is stalking the pretty well known popular white girl
- She takes out her phone and is going to call the police which makes him panic further
- He goes into an unplanned blind rage and strikes her to subdue her but accidentally uses too much force and then 'blacks out'
- He comes too and doesn't know what's going on - looks in his trunk and oh there's the girl
- He sees she's dead so it's too late for her and is now in full fledged panic so he dumps her body as he told LE
- For the last month, he's been wrecked with guilt and grief because he meant her no harm and her death was accidental however he hasn't come forward because he's deathly afraid of what the evil government will do to him as an illegal alien who murdered a US citizen - and a popular white one at that

I realize most of that story is bull so here is the likely true version:

Actual events
- Killer knew Mollie around town and was attracted to her sexually
- He meticulously stalked her in his vehicle until she was in an area he knew was desolate and likely to be all alone
- He approached her with sexually charged intentions on his mind
- She was creeped out and said no way, felt threatened so she said she was going to call the police
- He knew that meant bad things for him as an illegal alien, and one who was trying to stalk the pretty popular all-American local white girl
- The combination of deportation if he's found out and being rejected by the girl he wants sends him into a rage and he attacks her because she wasn't going to report this to anyone and he had to have her
- Knocked her out and put her in his trunk - at this point she may still be alive but barely
- Drove her to the cornfield where he sexually assaulted her and finished her off then dumped her body
- He's felt nothing since that point because he's a psychopath who would do this again if not locked up