IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #41

[Ms. Fletcher]

Yes and the one that would keep him behind bars for sure.

So really the reason to charge M1 initially, instead of the others that we think will probably be added, would be to ensure that it is a serious enough charge that he does not get out, correct?

The reason this has me stumped is, in the Lucas Hernandez case it seemed to be reversed. They charged her with lesser crimes to arrest her but waited on charging for actually killing him.

 

[kpm]

JMO
I do think some of what is in the Arrest Warrant is based on what CBR said but I also think some of it is based on the Fitbit data.

Because of the very specific down to the minute ending time of 8:28pm. I dont think CBR would have known that exact time or told LE that right at that minute is when he left. Also the "known by me" part implies the information can also include things LE found out on their own.

"known by me, or told to me"

They may have had the Fitbit info

But does anyone know if a Fitbit can distinguish the difference of when a heartbeat stops or the Fitbit was destroyed or taken off?

 

[kpm]

Yes that is what I believe, which would include the time frame, where she was abducted, etc.
Initially, reports were that MT was jogging at 5:30, or close to that time.
Initially, it was stated that MT sent a snapchat at 10:00, which was revised to being opened at 10:00 pm.

All initial reports of what were considered to be facts, were purposely not confirmed and there is a reason for that.

I don't believe that the entire incident happened between 7:30 - 8:28.

I often go back to the Mickey Shunick case, where BL kept her in his vehicle for IIRC close to a day if not longer, prior to even disposing of her body, bike, or anything else.

Mollie also texted her mother around 7:30 about dinner, she may not have even started running at that point.

 

[MsBetsy]

I think that's a bit of a leap. The arrest warrant identifies a range of time. I don't think we can assume that Mollie was deceased at 8:28, only that something happened at that time at 1900 385 Ave. It could be that there was a spike in Fitbit data, or that the Fitbit data stopped transmitting. If the Fitbit stopped transmitting, it could be that her Fitbit and phone were separated, or that they were not separated and she was deceased.

That's exactly what had me going back and forth. Was it just suddenly turned off at 8:28? And why immediately following the murder? But others kind of convinced me that since police indicate in the affidavit that the crime began and ended within that timeframe, they believe this is what took place. Not saying that as fact it is just how some have interpreted it. What was the exact wording in the affidavit?

 

[Hatfield]

Why would they have not charged him with kidnapping (yet)? It seems that is actually what they have him on record admitting to. Obviously they could have added the murder one charge as well or soon after. I'm sure there's a reason murder one is the charge they are holding him on that I'm just not getting. Could someone explain this to me?

I think that LE wanted to charge him with the most severe charge to be sure he could not make bail amount.

If they would have chosen the lesser charge of kidnapping then its possible the bail amount may have been drastically lower.

ETA It is expected they will add additional charges as the case proceeds.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

JMO
I do think some of what is in the Arrest Warrant is based on what CBR said but I also think some of it is based on the Fitbit data.

Because of the very specific down to the minute ending time of 8:28pm. I dont think CBR would have known that exact time or told LE that right at that minute is when he left. Also the "known by me" part implies the information can also include things LE found out on their own.

"known by me, or told to me"

I believe the documents are based on facts that the prosecutors knew and believed to be true. All charges stem from the verified information investigators presented at the time.

 

[TL4S]

So really the reason to charge M1 initially, instead of the others that we think will probably be added, would be to ensure that it is a serious enough charge that he does not get out, correct?

The reason this has me stumped is, in the Lucas Hernandez case it seemed to be reversed. They charged her with lesser crimes to arrest her but waited on charging for actually killing him.

That happened with the Sydney Loofe case, as well. Aubrey Trail admitted to the killing long before he was charged. They had him in custody under lesser charges for a couple months prior to officially charging him.

 

[SharonNeedles]

I do agree that taking that route out of town is a plausible theory. It certainly would be on more familiar turf. My only question with it is why he would take 470 over, when 460 is a through road (looks like on the map, anyway). AND, when does the 430th and 200 intersection ping come into play?

Using your idea, couldn't he have gone east on 430th instead? Also, if he was familiar with that particular cornfield for some reason, do you think he would have likely taken 200 or hwy 21 there under normal circumstances? If so, he would know those routes, as well.

I guess it all really depends on CR's mindset that night!

Honestly I think we’ve probably gotten wrong some points that we’ve speculated and treated as fact. We know approximately when and where the abduction took place and we know where the body was found. I’ll go one step further and assume he got the body into the cornfield before it started raining. We don’t really know much at all about the other points of interest, specifically the TA truck stop and the two farm locations.

I’m confident that the first part of the route I’ve drawn out makes the most sense for the situation, and I would say that even without the point of interest at the intersection of 385th and 200th. From there though, what would make sense is entirely dependent on what CR was doing and when. If the POI at 385th and 200th represents a ping, I’d be sure that was within a few minutes of the abduction. But if the TA also represents a ping location, was that 10 minutes later indicating he drove directly there? Quite likely there could be some time between those two poi that I’m not accounting for.

I’m also not convinced that CR would have driven on 470th and then somehow ended up on 460th. It makes way more sense to think he turned east on 460th and stayed on that until he ultimately arrived at that cornfield. But maybe at that point he was just driving the grid of rural roads until he found a good spot?

 

[Leney]

Mollie also texted her mother around 7:30 about dinner, she may not have even started running at that point.

I don't text while I am running. Either she had not started her run, or she had completed it, perhaps walking back to her mothers to eat.

 

[Deleted member 718]

Run to honor Mollie Tibbetts organized in Brooklyn

“It obviously has affected our community, and to go farther than that, I’d say it has affected the running community,” said Brandie Johnson Flathers, a runner in Brooklyn, where Tibbetts lived. “We have several runners in this community, and before this happened, you’d see them running around town regularly, as well as people walking or walking with their kids, and you don’t see that anymore. People are scared.”

That’s why Flathers has organized a 5-mile run in Brooklyn in memory of Tibbetts.

Scheduled for 9 a.m. Sept. 30, the run will start at the Brooklyn, Guernsey and Malcom High School and head out to 385th Street — also known as “the blacktop” — the same road from which Tibbetts was abducted.

“Obviously there is significance in that route because that was one of Mollie’s favorite routes and it was where the incident happened,” Flathers said. “But I hope that by doing this run, we can overcome that fear. Mollie wouldn’t want us to stop running, she wouldn’t want us to give up something we love and she wouldn’t want us to live in fear. So we just wanted to put this together to honor her and to hopefully show her, and everyone, that we’re not going to stop.”

 

[Hatfield]

They may have had the Fitbit info

But does anyone know if a Fitbit can distinguish the difference of when a heartbeat stops or the Fitbit was destroyed or taken off?

IMO
The Fitbit cant distinguish but if LE found she still had it on her wrist when they found the body then its easy to assume all the data they pulled from it is accurate.

I doubt the killer would take it off and then put it back on her. If he took it off of her he would have gotten rid of it or kept it as a trophy.

 

[otto]

If it were a first time attack, I would think he'd likely leave the body right where it lay (or maybe dragged just out of sight) after the murder. JMO And I've often wondered if he fled Mexico to begin with because he was in trouble there.

Exactly. Something happened at 7:45. Was that the first sighting of Rivera circling the area of Boundary and Middle Str. and waiting for Mollie to arrive? Did he grab her and throw her in the back seat after she was seen on CCTV? Did he drive her to 1900 395 Ave and assault her, ending at 8:28? Is this where he put her in the trunk?

Since something significant happened at 8:28PM, why didn't he leave her there? I would expect a first timer to want to distance himself from the body immediately, but Rivera didn't do that. He drove some distance and carefully hid the body.

I also notice several maps speculating on his route. I'm perplexed with the complexity of the proposed routes. Why wouldn't he take the most direct route to the cornfield where she was found, and then the most direct route home?

Pink line is abduction to cornfield, blue is cornfield home in this map.

 

[MsBetsy]

Just an FYI if I state IMO it is just that. If it's a fact I will post a link to support.

I would think that stating " I believe" "I think", "it appears that," "it would indicate" would all point to that too. It feels funny to make a statement like, This Rivera seems like a really bad guy if he chased down an innocent girl and murdered her with a sharp object, then left her body to rot in a cornfield. MOO

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I don't believe there was an accomplice to the actual crime. LE saw the car on video passing by several times. IMO killer was visible and only killer.

Thee sole troubling part of that belief is his likes in social media. One us associated with vicious gang violence. If this was a murder as part of a gang initiation or ritual it would take on a new negative meaning of its own.

If course IMO

 

[TL4S]

Run to honor Mollie Tibbetts organized in Brooklyn

“It obviously has affected our community, and to go farther than that, I’d say it has affected the running community,” said Brandie Johnson Flathers, a runner in Brooklyn, where Tibbetts lived. “We have several runners in this community, and before this happened, you’d see them running around town regularly, as well as people walking or walking with their kids, and you don’t see that anymore. People are scared.”

That’s why Flathers has organized a 5-mile run in Brooklyn in memory of Tibbetts.

Scheduled for 9 a.m. Sept. 30, the run will start at the Brooklyn, Guernsey and Malcom High School and head out to 385th Street — also known as “the blacktop” — the same road from which Tibbetts was abducted.

“Obviously there is significance in that route because that was one of Mollie’s favorite routes and it was where the incident happened,” Flathers said. “But I hope that by doing this run, we can overcome that fear. Mollie wouldn’t want us to stop running, she wouldn’t want us to give up something we love and she wouldn’t want us to live in fear. So we just wanted to put this together to honor her and to hopefully show her, and everyone, that we’re not going to stop.”

Thank you for posting this. 385th from either DJ's or her mom's house really does make sense for a runner of her pace to do in about 45 minutes.

 

[otto]

Ye

Yes it is unusual, and I'm not quite sure what this tells us. Maybe he was waiting for the cover of darkness, and it didn't go according to plan. Maybe he couldn't hold out any longer. Or maybe he felt confident that the isolated area she was in at the time was the perfect moment and couldn't risk missing the opportunity. As for running, I think people have given pretty good reasons for that upthread. I don't think he even considered it.

Regardless, it's quite a leap to go from no criminal record to a daylight abduction of a stranger on a public street resulting in multiple stabbing murder and hiding the body 15 miles from the abduction site.

It's more likely that he has a criminal history, that he has never been caught, and that is why he did not flee the area after the murder.

 

[TL4S]

IMO
The Fitbit cant distinguish but if LE found she still had it on her wrist when they found the body then its easy to assume all the data they pulled from it is accurate.

I doubt the killer would take it off and then put it back on her. If he took it off of her he would have gotten rid of it or kept it as a trophy.

Do you think data could still be retrieved from it after it was rained on several times? I know she was covered with corn leaves, but I bet it still got wet.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Exactly. Something happened at 7:45. Was that the first sighting of Rivera circling the area of Boundary and Middle Str. and waiting for Mollie to arrive? Did he grab her and throw her in the back seat after she was seen on CCTV? Did he drive her to 1900 395 Ave and assault her, ending at 8:28? Is this where he put her in the trunk?

Since something significant happened at 8:28PM, why didn't he leave her there? I would expect a first timer to want to distance himself from the body immediately, but Rivera didn't do that. He drove some distance and carefully hid the body.

I also notice several maps speculating on his route. I'm perplexed with the complexity of the proposed routes. Why wouldn't he take the most direct route to the cornfield where she was found, and then the most direct route home?

Pink line is abduction to cornfield, blue is cornfield home in this map.

I don’t think we will understand anything he did until trial. Much of this case is unique, some not so and the rest just plain odd.

 

[kpm]

IMO
The Fitbit cant distinguish but if LE found she still had it on her wrist when they found the body then its easy to assume all the data they pulled from it is accurate.

I doubt the killer would take it off and then put it back on her. If he took it off of her he would have gotten rid of it or kept it as a trophy.

At this point all we know is that her clothes were in the same location as where her body was found.

LE made no mention of her phone, earbuds or Fitbit in the warrant, I’m not sure if they didn’t think it was necessary to mention or if they were not at the scene.

They have much more info than we are privy to, all we can do is speculate.

 

[MsBetsy]

IMO
The Fitbit cant distinguish but if LE found she still had it on her wrist when they found the body then its easy to assume all the data they pulled from it is accurate.

I doubt the killer would take it off and then put it back on her. If he took it off of her he would have gotten rid of it or kept it as a trophy.

I would think the fit bit would record an erratic heartbeat, and then possibly slowing down until it stopped if it was on her. If it stopped abruptly after it had speeded up a bit, that would indicate the phone was turned off. That's what makes sense to me but there are many others here who know alot more about the device who could give some more accurate answers. I hope.