IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #41

[MsBetsy]

Not meaning to sound snarky and sorry in advance if it comes across like that, but what exactly do you think he planned to do?

Did I answer your question? The post you were referring to was an extension of a long conversation about how Rivera went about the crime and more specifically whether or not it was premeditated. I had indicated that the fact that he was in the area the night before and admittedly saw her jogging suggests to me that he was considering and deciding on selecting her as his victim. As opposed to cruising around looking for girls. I'm pretty sure in his mind he knew full well asking her for a date would never be an option. He waited for an opportunity and he took it. Whether or not there was any conversation. That was the ultimate goal. Sorry didn't have time to explain before, making dinner for a hungry child in between messaages!

 

[otto]

Not meaning to sound snarky and sorry in advance if it comes across like that, but what exactly do you think he planned to do?

That much seems obvious. He planned to abduct and assault Mollie.

He saw Mollie jogging, he learned her route. On July 19 he drove around looking for her on her route, spotted her, drove to Boundary and Middle Str., which is included in her running routes. He circled around until she arrived, accosted her, threw her in his vehicle, assaulted her, murdered her, and hid her body miles away.

It is out of the question that he was stalking Mollie to ask her on a date.

 

[otto]

Wow, he lived closer than I thought

Could you add the spot where he worked or just tell me the vicinity?

Tia

All I know is that he lived in a trailer on the land owned by the dairy farm, so I'm guessing he lived and worked in the same area.

 

[otto]

Maybe not waiting for her specifically. Waiting for someone. I posted an article today that says there are several runners in Brooklyn. I do think he was looking to 'hook up' with a female that evening.

When people want to hook up, don't they go to pubs or clubs? Who drives around alone stalking joggers when they want a mutually agreed on hook-up?

 

[SharonNeedles]

Attack, assault, murder

That’s where we disagree. I believe his motive was sex.

 

[otto]

That’s where we disagree. I believe his motive was sex.

If all he wanted was sex, why is Mollie dead?

 

[TL4S]

That much seems obvious. He planned to abduct and assault Mollie.

He saw Mollie jogging, he learned her route. On July 19 he drove around looking for her on her route, spotted her, drove to Boundary and Middle Str., which is included in her running routes. He circled around until she arrived, accosted her, threw her in his vehicle, assaulted her, murdered her, and hid her body miles away.

It is out of the question that he was stalking Mollie to ask her on a date.

And he admitted to seeing Mollie running before.

 

[Al Hoffman]

JMO
I do think some of what is in the Arrest Warrant is based on what CBR said but I also think some of it is based on the Fitbit data.

Because of the very specific down to the minute ending time of 8:28pm. I dont think CBR would have known that exact time or told LE that right at that minute is when he left. Also the "known by me" part implies the information can also include things LE found out on their own.

"known by me, or told to me"

"Education gives us knowledge, failure gives us wisdom"

Reading though WS, I have truly come to appreciate the deliberately vague but accurate nature of LE's sworn statements.

Having been questioned many times in depositions and in open court by sharks in suits (anyone know where I can enjoy a good, hot bowl of barrister fin soup, as I suddenly feel a need?), and having my handwritten ex post facto notes put in my face in open court, I can REALLY appreciate the chance to craft a narrative knowing the attendant facts to date, but ALSO knowing for sure that I would have to eventually appear in court to testify based on that written record or affidavit.

In shooting, accuracy is how close you are to the bullseye, precision is how tight do all of your shots group. To be precise and accurate you need to put all of your shots in the 10 ring. (One of my instructors at my "military" Catholic high school could do this consistently at 50 ft with HIS personal 45's, and would split a paper target edgewise at the same distance to show off - Go Navy (MCGM))

I think that LE has to be close to the truth in their statement, but that all of the facts do not have to be grouped together, if present at all.

Keep in mind that in the arrest warrant, LE is crafting an accurate narrative that presents the facts as BEST known to date, but which does not give the defense counsel something to come back and bite them (LE) or the State prosecutor in the butt on live testimony, deposition or in open court. A very thin line to walk. The KISS (keep it simple stupid) principle applies here.

The bottom line is LE's intent is to keep the initial warrant application and warrant itself as simple and as accurate as is minimially necessary. The DA or State AG office will take it from there, and add addition narrative, and charges as the evidence and facts develop and their trial strategy matures.

I follow your line of reasoning, and think that it is reasonable. I understand your frustration, as LE and the State prosecutor in this case are too professional to give out much in this case.

Beware of going too far down the rabbit hole, as it is dark and there are hungry Jack Russels and Dashhounds down there!

 

[MsBetsy]

Cell phones rely on cell tower triangulation. Beyond that, it really depends on the apps and other unique features of each phone.

Ok, thanks. I was sure someone said the location could be off by as much as a mile! I thought it was a tech person who said that. They seemed to be very knowledgeable and gave a detailed explanation. Maybe I can find it 20 threads back.

 

[MsBetsy]

That much seems obvious. He planned to abduct and assault Mollie.

He saw Mollie jogging, he learned her route. On July 19 he drove around looking for her on her route, spotted her, drove to Boundary and Middle Str., which is included in her running routes. He circled around until she arrived, accosted her, threw her in his vehicle, assaulted her, murdered her, and hid her body miles away.

It is out of the question that he was stalking Mollie to ask her on a date.

Thanks, that was far better than my babbling explanation.

 

[otto]

The arrest warrant contains the information that is necessary to justify the charge, and nothing more.

 

[CJohnson9410]

If all he wanted was sex, why is Mollie dead?

Be cause he couldn't leave a witness. She fought him, she wasn't going to let him SA her. Someone would have to kill me to SA me too... I'd fight tooth and nail.

 

[Stormy21]

It has been announced that a spate of sexual assaults have occurred on rural Iowa roads. Counties in the area of concern include: Black Hawk, Linn, and Tama.

Details are sketchy but a male assaults stopped women or flags them down at the side of the road to stop them.

Authorities in multiple Iowa counties warn of roadside sexual assaults

 

[SharonNeedles]

That much seems obvious. He planned to abduct and assault Mollie.

He saw Mollie jogging, he learned her route. On July 19 he drove around looking for her on her route, spotted her, drove to Boundary and Middle Str., which is included in her running routes. He circled around until she arrived, accosted her, threw her in his vehicle, assaulted her, murdered her, and hid her body miles away.

It is out of the question that he was stalking Mollie to ask her on a date.

No, that’s not out of the question.

 

[MsBetsy]

"Education gives us knowledge, failure gives us wisdom"

Reading though WS, I have truly come to appreciate the deliberately vague but accurate nature of LE's sworn statements.

Having been questioned many times in depositions and in open court by sharks in suits (anyone know where I can enjoy a good, hot bowl of barrister fin soup, as I suddenly feel a need?), and having my handwritten ex post facto notes put in my face in open court, I can REALLY appreciate the chance to craft a narrative knowing the attendant facts to date, but ALSO knowing for sure that I would have to eventually appear in court to testify based on that written record or affidavit.

In shooting, accuracy is how close you are to the bullseye, precision is how tight do all of your shots group. To be precise and accurate you need to put all of your shots in the 10 ring. (One of my instructors at my "military" Catholic high school could do this consistently at 50 ft with HIS personal 45's, and would split a paper target edgewise at the same distance to show off - Go Navy (MCGM))

I think that LE has to be close to the truth in their statement, but that all of the facts do not have to be grouped together, if present at all.

Keep in mind that in the arrest warrant, LE is crafting an accurate narrative that presents the facts as BEST known to date, but which does not give the defense counsel something to come back and bite them (LE) or the State prosecutor in the butt on live testimony, deposition or in open court. A very thin line to walk. The KISS (keep it simple stupid) principle applies here.

The bottom line is LE's intent is to keep the initial warrant application and warrant itself as simple and as accurate as is minimially necessary. The DA or State AG office will take it from there, and add addition narrative, and charges as the evidence and facts develop and their trial strategy matures.

I follow your line of reasoning, and think that it is reasonable. I understand your frustration, as LE and the State prosecutor in this case are too professional to give out much in this case.

Beware of going too far down the rabbit hole, as it is dark and there are hungry Jack Russels and Dashhounds down there!

And snakes too ( down rabbit hole) Yes, I agree 100%. It is this notion of keeping it simple that allowed me to come up with my own theory of what happened. In the end, this person viciously murdered an unassuming, innocent victim. He wanted, he sought, he acted.

 

[MsBetsy]

Be cause he couldn't leave a witness. She fought him, she wasn't going to let him SA her. Someone would have to kill me to SA me too... I'd fight tooth and nail.

So you are saying he killed her so she wouldn't tell anyone? You don't think the murder could have been part of the sexual gratification?

 

[SharonNeedles]

Thanks to SharonNeedles for the correction - the suspect's home location is updated on this map.

I'm inclined to believe that the suspect took the most direct route between abduction and cornfield, then cornfield and his home.

You don't think there's any connection to WC's farm then?

 

[Al Hoffman]

If all he wanted was sex, why is Mollie dead?

Because he panicked or had a red out, lost it and killed her before he got what he wanted. He may have been a newbie at this, and amateurs are likely to do anything under stress.

OR because dead chickas tell no tales...

OR because, the kill itself gave him a warm and fuzzy feeling...

When a rattlesnake strikes a human there are 3 options that may happen, because the heat signal from anything bigger than 30ish pounds overwhelms the snake's brain and infrared sensors. The snake may inject ALL of its venom, some of its venom, or none of its venom (20% of the time, no venom is injected). CBR was thinking with HIS reptile brain. As a group we are looking for a rational explanation for the actions of an irrational mind. Good luck with that!

 

[MsBetsy]

Sure they could and even though I am an avid Fitbit user. You always have your doubts.

Police have started to use fitness trackers from companies such as Fitbit, Garmin and Jawbone, in court rooms as evidence.

Fitness trackers, and other smart devices such as smartwatches, are bound to join the long list of technology used in litigation.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.nydailynews.com/news/national/police-attorneys-fitness-trackers-court-evidence-article-1.2607432?outputType=amp

It is up to the Judge as to what is admissible.

Circuit Court Judge David Zakowski ruled Wednesday that prosecutors can present the Fitbit’s step-counting data to the jury but not its sleep-recording data.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.greenbaypressgazette.com/amp/1084388001

Fitbit Law Suit
The only thing I personally know about that is that strap must be firmly on your wrist. It can’t be loose.
The suit claims Fitbit's heart rate tracking tech is inaccurate
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/4344675/fitbit-lawsuit-heart-rate-accuracy

Knowing all that I can see why it might not always be admissable.

 

[SharonNeedles]

So you are saying he killed her so she wouldn't tell anyone? You don't think the murder could have been part of the sexual gratification?

I'm saying the original intent was finding a "hookup", something he's been known to do in the past and something that's not uncommon at all.