Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #44

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  • #901
In reality, from the beginning, the only thing LE gave us was that they were confident in their timeline (which they refused to share). I believe the specific period provided that ends at 8:28p, is the time LE believes Mollie was no longer in the Brooklyn area. MOO

The first and only reference to 8:28 - between the time of 7:45 and 8:28pm is written on the affidavit to support the charges for first degree murder against CR. There’s been a lot of discussion about why 8:28pm is so specific.

Prior to that LE asked for people to come forward who were in the area of 5 key places between 5 and 10pm on that day.

Link:
http://www.dps.state.ia.us/commis/p...-2018_DCI_ArrestWarrantComplaintAffidavit.pdf
 
  • #902
They may have, we just don’t know

Neither of the media reports claimed CR had been reported. And LE claimed CR was unknown to them prior to tracing him as the driver of the black Malibu. So I really do doubt LE has reason to be untruthful in their statement that he only became a person of interest due to their sighting of the black Malibu circling in the same area as Mollie was running.
 
  • #903
LE was shocked that this abduction turned into murder precisely because this guy had never even been on their radar in the past.
Jmo
 
  • #904
LE was shocked that this abduction turned into murder precisely because this guy had never even been on their radar in the past.
Jmo

That statement makes no sense to me.

Not all murderers are on their radar and that is why they can not find them.
 
  • #905
I disagree xGF is at the core, it's more likely his Mum. MOO
Or a combination of both. I had mentioned that we have heard no mention of a mom in his life, then someone said something about not being allowed to slueth her or the girlfriend. I think it may be an important factor, whether or not he even had a mother figure, and if so where is she? We have only heard from the father, I haven't even seen the mother mentioned at all. If she's not around, I wonder what happened to her or what their relationship was.
 
  • #906
I'm guessing its the last time the heart rate was read on the fitbit so that either means she died at that moment or the fitbit disconnected at that moment.

The one thing I find interesting is LE says they can't comment on if she was held for a period of time before being killed, but I guess we can't really assume anything there until more facts come out.

We also don't know the current location of that fitbit/phone at this point either.

Typical preceding heart rate changes, associated with hypovolemic shock, that are incompatable with life, could tell LE that the wearer was deceased at the time, and that the lack of recorded heart rate was not simply due to the FitBit being removed. Presumably this data, if available, would have been recovered from the FitBit server Cloud. There was no actual need for LE to physically possess the FitBit at the time the warrant was issued.

When you bleed out, as your overall blood volume and blood pressure falls, your heart rate will increase to compensate, until the circulating blood volume can't maintain oxygen perfusion of the tissues, even with compensating fluid compartment shifts. The heart rate will then "falter" as your BP crashes and you die, causing the heart rate to stop.

Also stab wounds can kill without a lot of external bleeding. A direct penetrating stab wound to the heart can cause a condition called "cardiac tamponade", with it's own characteristic pattern of tachycardia and sometimes dysrhythmias before death. In cardiac tamponade, the heart itself is pierced by the stab wound, and fills the non-elastic pericardial sac (that contains the heart) slowly compressing the heart and decreasing overall cardiac output, eventually causing death. How long to TOD after direct penetrating cardiac injury depends on the severity of the cardiac injury, and the penetrating object used, or if left in place. I have personally seen cardiac tamponade emergently addressed with a finger stuck directly into the heart, followed by a Foley urinary catheter which was then inflated, clamped shut, and pulled tight against the interior of the cardiac traumatic wound, with the catheter taped to the chest to hold tension and keep the hole successfully plugged until direct surgical intervention.

Please remember that "sharp force trauma" is a forensic mechanism of death, NOT a medical cause of death. "Cardiovascular collapse, secondary to an untreated, traumatic cardiac tamponade" IS a medical cause of death that would be suitable for a Death Certificate. The autopsy report findings released to the public are brief because of Iowa Law about public reporting in such matters, and because of medical and LE prudence. MT died as the result of injuries caused by sharp force trauma, per the public announcement by the State Medical Examiner's Office. This, again, is the mechanism that is felt to be the cause of death. 33 days of decomp in the elements can make it difficult to accurately and quickly determine the exact medical cause(s) of death.

Presumably a Homocide arrest warrant indicating an upper time range of 20:28 indicates that the swearing LEO had good reason to believe that the victim was dead by that time. It is a reasonable assumption that such a seemingly accurate time was not pulled out of thin air, but was determined from Cloud derived FitBit HR data. While NOT an EKG, the lowly FitBit can show diagnostic worthy rate and rhythm changes.
 
  • #907
LE was shocked that this abduction turned into murder precisely because this guy had never even been on their radar in the past.
Jmo
I personally don’t think there ever was an abduction per se, seems likely this went from sexual harassment directly to homcide.
 
  • #908
I personally don’t think there ever was an abduction per se, seems likely this went from sexual harassment directly to homcide.

Why do you think LE pondered how he escalated to “abduction, kidnapping, murder” ?


“All of a sudden he just does it,” says Mitch Mortvedt, assistant director of the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation, referring to suspect Cristhian Rivera.

“Who escalates to abduction, kidnapping and homicide that fast?”



Cops Wonder: If Mollie Tibbetts' Accused Killer Has No Record — Who Jumps to Murder That Fast?
 
  • #909
Why do you think LE pondered how he escalated to “abduction, kidnapping, murder” ?
I guess you’ll get an answer to that if this gets to trial.
 
  • #910
Typical preceding heart rate changes, associated with hypovolemic shock, that are incompatable with life, could tell LE that the wearer was deceased at the time, and that the lack of recorded heart rate was not simply due to the FitBit being removed. Presumably this data, if available, would have been recovered from the FitBit server Cloud. There was no actual need for LE to physically possess the FitBit at the time the warrant was issued.

When you bleed out, as your overall blood volume and blood pressure falls, your heart rate will increase to compensate, until the circulating blood volume can't maintain oxygen perfusion of the tissues, even with compensating fluid compartment shifts. The heart rate will then "falter" as your BP crashes and you die, causing the heart rate to stop.

Also stab wounds can kill without a lot of external bleeding. A direct penetrating stab wound to the heart can cause a condition called "cardiac tamponade", with it's own characteristic pattern of tachycardia and sometimes dysrhythmias before death. In cardiac tamponade, the heart itself is pierced by the stab wound, and fills the non-elastic pericardial sac (that contains the heart) slowly compressing the heart and decreasing overall cardiac output, eventually causing death. How long to TOD after direct penetrating cardiac injury depends on the severity of the cardiac injury, and the penetrating object used, or if left in place. I have personally seen cardiac tamponade emergently addressed with a finger stuck directly into the heart, followed by a Foley urinary catheter which was then inflated, clamped shut, and pulled tight against the interior of the cardiac traumatic wound, with the catheter taped to the chest to hold tension and keep the hole successfully plugged until direct surgical intervention.

Please remember that "sharp force trauma" is a forensic mechanism of death, NOT a medical cause of death. "Cardiovascular collapse, secondary to an untreated, traumatic cardiac tamponade" IS a medical cause of death that would be suitable for a Death Certificate. The autopsy report findings released to the public are brief because of Iowa Law about public reporting in such matters, and because of medical and LE prudence. MT died as the result of injuries caused by sharp force trauma, per the public announcement by the State Medical Examiner's Office. This, again, is the mechanism that is felt to be the cause of death. 33 days of decomp in the elements can make it difficult to accurately and quickly determine the exact medical cause(s) of death.

Presumably a Homocide arrest warrant indicating an upper time range of 20:28 indicates that the swearing LEO had good reason to believe that the victim was dead by that time. It is a reasonable assumption that such a seemingly accurate time was not pulled out of thin air, but was determined from Cloud derived FitBit HR data. While NOT an EKG, the lowly FitBit can show diagnostic worthy rate and rhythm changes.

If LE already had reason to believe Mollie was no longer living, for what reason do you believe they didn’t say so? I’ve noticed other cases when LE’s releases a statement saying they have good reason to believe a missing person is no longer alive without releasing any other details whatsoever.
 
  • #911
Great post here. I guess the biggest question here is we won't know if she was held captive at all until the trial and more details come out I assume, but if she was it would explain his behavior a lot, because maybe he was still debating what to do with her, however, I think even if she was held captive it couldn't be for very long, because of the state of the body when it was found.

According to the Homocide arrest warrant, MT was deceased by 20:28 on the day of the crime. Not a lot of time to be held captive, when the reported crime of murder covered 43 minutes, ending at 8:28 PM, when MT was reported to have been seen running at 7:15 - 7:30 p.m.ish, and the Homocide was reported to have occured after 7:45.
 
  • #912
That statement makes no sense to me.

Not all murderers are on their radar and that is why they can not find them.

LE seemed shocked...I’m not. Maybe they felt they knew the “bad seeds” in their county.
 
  • #913
If both these two stories are true and the woman recognized CR, after it was reported Mollie went missing while running in the streets of Brooklyn and LE and the family were pleading for tips, why on earth wouldn’t either of these alarming instances have been reported to LE?

Especially when it’s a second party repeating a story, if LE were later to follow up with the person in seeking potential witnesses, there’s a real easy way out. “Oh ya well, I misunderstood might’ve been another guy.” People who speak to the media are not under oath.

They got 4000 tips. So maybe someone did call it in. But it wouldn't have solved the crime if it was just an anecdotal description of a girl being hit on by a young guy in a car.
 
  • #914
Didn't it take like 2-3 days for them to identify it? I would think it has to be fairly decomposed if that was the case.

No, the arrest warrant implies that MT was presumptivly ID'ed the same day that the body was found, the warrant was issued, and CR actually arrested by authorities while in custody. CR had only been taken into custody just a day prior.
 
  • #915
Why do you think LE pondered how he escalated to “abduction, kidnapping, murder” ?


“All of a sudden he just does it,” says Mitch Mortvedt, assistant director of the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation, referring to suspect Cristhian Rivera.

“Who escalates to abduction, kidnapping and homicide that fast?”



Cops Wonder: If Mollie Tibbetts' Accused Killer Has No Record — Who Jumps to Murder That Fast?

From your link
“That is part of the ongoing investigation,” Mortvedt tells PEOPLE. “We want to dig into his background — and not just the last four weeks. Who is this guy? Where has he been? What has he done? How can we verify that?..”

People has a tendency to sometimes print out of context snipped quotes. While Mortvedt’s sentence might sound as if he was truly shocked, his response could’ve just been in reply to a question from a reporter asking what’s the purpose of additional investigation into CRs background given his record was apparently clean.
 
  • #916
I think it's possible that he saw the girlfriend as his ticket to permanent citizenship, and a life that was as comfortable as her life - whatever that is. When she left him, whether by cheating or not, his dreams of life as a US citizen crumbled. Maybe he spent years resenting his girlfriend, but he couldn't harm her because of the child, so he sought to harm young women who looked similar to his girlfriend and who seemed to be living the American Dream.
I think your post makes a lot of sense. The one thing I find interesting and might have some relevance to CR anger is what was the status of his relationship with the GF or XGF. One news report I read said they had been split up for more than a year while another indicated the GF moved out of the trailer the morning CR was arrested - so if they were or had reconciled it might change his attitude toward young women who somewhat resembled MT , but if they had not and the GF just happened to pick that morning to move out it might have no relevance at all
JMOO
 
  • #917
If both these two stories are true and the woman recognized CR, after it was reported Mollie went missing while running in the streets of Brooklyn and LE and the family were pleading for tips, why on earth wouldn’t either of these alarming instances have been reported to LE?

Maybe they were afraid if they saw the threats/doxxing that happened on SM when people wondered if it could have been an illegal alien who took Mollie.

The big guys do not want to lose their cheap labor and, IMO, what I saw looked organized and it was scary to me.
 
  • #918
This may have been his first homicide because I think it did not turn out the way he'd planned. I think he wanted to abduct and rape her. He may have fantasized about throwing he in the front seat, tied up, and driving to a remote area. But it didn't go as planned because she fought him and he ended up killing her very quickly. JMO
 
  • #919
No, the arrest warrant implies that MT was presumptivly ID'ed the same day that the body was found, the warrant was issued, and CR actually arrested by authorities while in custody. CR had only been taken into custody just a day prior.
But didn't they initially ID the body based on the clothes and the fact that he led them to the body? Before it was official? I also had the impression she was badly decomposed and therefore could not be identified by her appearance .
 
  • #920
From your link
“That is part of the ongoing investigation,” Mortvedt tells PEOPLE. “We want to dig into his background — and not just the last four weeks. Who is this guy? Where has he been? What has he done? How can we verify that?..”

People has a tendency to sometimes print out of context snipped quotes. While Mortvedt’s sentence might sound as if he was truly shocked, his response could’ve just been in reply to a question from a reporter asking what’s the purpose of additional investigation into CRs background given his record was apparently clean.

I have to respectfully disagree with that reasoning, even if printed out of context they directly quoted him saying that.

Does it matter if he said it before or after saying they are digging into his background?

The key quote is “who escalates to abduction, kidnapping and homicide that fast”

Moo
 
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