Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #44

[MsBetsy]

Verging onto suing alcohol distributors in the case of crimes committed under the influence. That’d be quite lucrative. We don’t know, had CR been drinking that day?

I don't see how we could know. Unless someone who saw him drinking came forward, which I am guessing would never happen.

 

[MsBetsy]

New matters because most companies offer full replacement cost from 2-5 years after purchase if you purchase brand new



Age definitely applies too. Rates will increase again when you get over 70 sadly.

Great! Something to look forward to!

 

[MistyWaters]

I hope there never will be..

The reporting in the media doesn’t make it appear so either, just based on the farm “should’ve known”. If anything it appears the verification system is flawed.

“Employers typically do not face legal consequences for hiring a worker under false documents as long as they were not involved in obtaining them and had no other obvious reason to suspect they are fraudulent, said Bob Teig, a retired federal prosecutor in Iowa.

“Absent unusual circumstances, it would be difficult to show they knew any more than what they were told,” Teig said, adding that it would be “pretty racist” to assume a John Budd could not be Hispanic.”
https://nypost.com/2018/09/06/man-charged-with-killing-mollie-tibbetts-used-fake-name-john-budd/

 

[Jealoushe]

Great! Something to look forward to!

I know right. Something most people dont know is that brokers usually hate Insurance companies too LOL

 

[ChuckMaureen]

One wonders...

Employment Eligibility Verification

 

[Al Hoffman]

Could someone please remind me what role a victim’s family plays in prosecution of criminal cases? For example, can RT ask the State to reduce charges? Or is the State bound by law to prosecute at the highest charge based on the evidence they have? Because, JMO, i believe RT would want to lower the charges. He seems very uncomfortable with the whole thing.

Sentensing is usually at the Judges descresion, based on sentencing guidelines he must follow. Sometimes HIS hands are tied. At times, family et al, can read a statement at the sentencing hearing, and with victim impact statements, the Judge can take all of this in consideration of his sentencing decisions.

HOWEVER, if the rendered verdict is guilty of Murder One in Iowa, for CR the sentence will be a mandatory life without parole, no matter the family request for less (not gonna happen) or Death (only if the Feds prosecute and convict).

 

[MsBetsy]

The reporting in the media doesn’t make it appear so either, just based on the farm “should’ve known”. If anything it appears the verification system is flawed.

“Employers typically do not face legal consequences for hiring a worker under false documents as long as they were not involved in obtaining them and had no other obvious reason to suspect they are fraudulent, said Bob Teig, a retired federal prosecutor in Iowa.

“Absent unusual circumstances, it would be difficult to show they knew any more than what they were told,” Teig said, adding that it would be “pretty racist” to assume a John Budd could not be Hispanic.”
https://nypost.com/2018/09/06/man-charged-with-killing-mollie-tibbetts-used-fake-name-john-budd/

They have obviously suffered as a result of what happened. They lost employees, received death threats and more, and must feel absolutely horrible that an employee that they thought they knew, went out and brutally murdered someone. They were deceived by him, as many others were, and in my mind the only one who is responsible is the killer himself.

 

[PommyMommy]

I think y’all have worked CR’s immigration status and severity of his crime into the question - neither of which is relevant in establishing liability.

The same framework would apply if I drive my employers car without a valid license. It expired, I couldn’t pass the eye exam - my employer thinks I have a license but I don’t. I drive their car into town and commit arson, burn someone’s house to the ground. Is there any chance whatsoever that my employer is liable at all?

And since this case is pretty much stagnant pending new info becoming available, I’d love it if some of you would take a look at the Brandon Lawson thread. That case bugs me to no end...

Link to Brandon's thread in case anyone is interested: TX - TX - Brandon Lawson, 26, San Angelo, 8 Aug 2013 - #1

 

[MistyWaters]

One wonders...

Employment Eligibility Verification

“It’s unclear whether E-Verify would have detected any red flags with Rivera’s claimed identity, but the farm has said it used a different government service to confirm that the name and Social Security number matched.”
https://nypost.com/2018/09/06/man-charged-with-killing-mollie-tibbetts-used-fake-name-john-budd/

Does anyone understand why there’s two different verification services?

During the press conference held by Yarrabee Farms, it was explained (according to my understanding) the SS check was later upgraded to E-Verify, but a family member who was performing the verification hadn’t realized that and was still using the older method.

Although the above report mentions it’s “unclear whether E-verify would have detected any red flags”, if E-verify is ‘more’ accurate I’m wondering why the SS site wasn’t shut down?

 

[MsBetsy]

I know right. Something most people dont know is that brokers usually hate Insurance companies too LOL

I can relate to that. It was my father's Insurance Agency that I bought the insurance from, and the " girls" , or brokers in the office were always complaining about the company to me. They also tend to switch Insurance Companies throughout the years.

 

[Al Hoffman]

JMO
I agree. Its basically the definition of negligence. Something happens and sure you didnt expect it but you could be negligent for allowing the circumstances that it happened in the first place.

The bottom line is a civil case jury will decide. Thats why there are so many civil cases. Some won and some lost.

The link below is mostly talking about car accidents and negligence resulting from it but in a murder case where an illegal driver is on the road and a murder happens with a possibly company owned vehicle it could get real interesting in this case.

"Negligence can result in all types of accidents causing physical and/or property damage, but can also include business errors"

"Nine states (California, New York, Michigan, Florida, Idaho, Iowa, Minnesota, Nevada, Rhode Island) make the owner of the vehicle responsible for all damages caused by a driver given permission to use the car"

Legal Dictionary - Law.com

What "damage" did CR cause with the car, that the owner could be held liable for? Did he run into anything? Do we have any information that he hit MT with the car. You cited damages. It could be a bit of a stretch to make that fit to a car used to drive to the scene of a crime, in that CR (by his own statement) was outside of the car when he approached MT. Was the car used in the commission: yes. Was the car used to cause any damages: No. MT died of Sharp Force Trauma.

 

[JenniD]

I wonder how many other illegal alien t***s are there?
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...lien-murderer-of-molly-tibbetts-was-employed/

Fairly confident there are a lot. Noticed in this article from brietbart they stated CR lived in an area of Iowa surrounded by sanctuary cities but this article states that Iowa has no sanctuary cities.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/wqad.c...r-signs-into-law-ban-on-sanctuary-cities/amp/

 

[Al Hoffman]

I think there is a good chance that CR did have a fake DL, which he included with the rest of the fake papers he showed to the farm manager. When he was arrested, that's where it was learned that he had no legal DL. IMO

I can't imagine the farm not asking him for his DL when they hired him. I also can't imagine them letting him drive one of their vehicles if they even suspected he was unlicensed. They must know the liability issues that could be lurking in the future, even for leaving keys in an accessible place.

He may not have had a DL at time of hire. MSM only describes an 'out of state ID' at that time. However, in the 4 years since his hire he could have easily obtained a fake DL that he showed his employer to use the car. There are no grounds (yet) to dispute that possibility.

JMOO

 

[Al Hoffman]

I don't think that's possible, the Judge will determine the sentence taking the law and everything else into consideration; MT's family can read out an 'impact statement', if they want to.

And how do they do it in GB?

 

[SharonNeedles]

Fairly confident there are a lot. Noticed in this article from brietbart they stated CR lived in an area of Iowa surrounded by sanctuary cities but this article states that Iowa has no sanctuary cities.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/wqad.c...r-signs-into-law-ban-on-sanctuary-cities/amp/

Iowa has no Sanctuary Cities, we passed legislation this year making that official state law now. But really, that only dictates whether LE will hold somebody per a request from ICE, it does essentially nothing to increase enforcement or discourage illegal immigration.

 

[JenniD]

Iowa has no Sanctuary Cities, we passed legislation this year making that official state law now. But really, that only dictates whether LE will hold somebody per a request from ICE, it does essentially nothing to increase enforcement or discourage illegal immigration.

Thanks for clarification. I agree with you completely Amazing how much information regarding this case is written but not always verified

 

[Hatfield]

What "damage" did CR cause with the car, that the owner could be held liable for? Did he run into anything? Do we have any information that he hit MT with the car. You cited damages. It could be a bit of a stretch to make that fit to a car used to drive to the scene of a crime, in that CR (by his own statement) was outside of the car when he approached MT. Was the car used in the commission: yes. Was the car used to cause any damages: No. MT died of Sharp Force Trauma.

JMO
I'm willing to agree to disagree and just wait and see if we ever see a civil case ever get filed by anyone. Im going to bow out of the civil case discussion because only a courtroom will be able to decide if there is a valid civil case and eventual judgement on anyone.

As stated before the "damages" could be Mollies life and loss of future earnings that she would have made for herself and her family. A lifetime of earnings. Wrongful death cases in the past put a dollar figure on those types of things and a court decision helps decides the amounts.

She allegedly was transported in the trunk and we dont know if he hit her with the car or not. He may have used the car as a weapon or not. He may have even raped and killed her in the backseat for all we know. I sure dont believe a word he is saying until evidence proves things for us.

A potential civil case may or may not go in many directions. For example, the small city where she lived may even sue the farm to recoup overtime pay for their LE officers. So it may not even be the family involved in a civil case.

Im going to politely bow out of a potential civil case discussion for now until something more concrete surfaces.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

New Iowa residents obtaining a driver's license or ID - Iowa Motor Vehicle Division

To obtain an Iowa drivers license if you have an out-of-state DL, you must provide additional proof of ID beyond the out-of-state DL and Social Security number. Valid forms of ID are listed below. You also are required to provide two proofs of residency. Makes me wonder that "John Budd" was provided a 'residence' by his employer.

We do not yet know if CR ("John Budd") has an IA DL. If YF reviewed "John Budd"'s out-of-state DL (regardless of its legitimacy) did YF expect he would eventually obtain an Iowa DL, as per IA law, assuming he needed to drive to/from work or his job included driving?

If you have a valid out-of-state license, you must:

• Present acceptable proof of identity, residence and Social Security number

• Valid, unexpired U.S. passport or U.S. passport card

• Certified copy of a birth certificate issued by a state of the United States. ("State" includes the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa, or the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands.) It must be a certified copy and have the stamp or raised seal of the issuing authority. A hospital-issued certificate is not acceptable. A certified birth certificate issued by Puerto Rico must be certified as being issued on or after July 1, 2010.

• Consular Report of Birth Abroad issued by the U.S. Department of State (Form FS-240, DS-1350 or FS-545)

• Certificate of Naturalization (Form N-550, N-570 or N-578)

• Certificate of Citizenship (Form N-560, N-561 or N-645)

• Unexpired Permanent Resident Card (Form I-551)

• Unexpired Employment Authorization Document (Form I-766)

• Record of Arrival and Departure (I-94) with attached photo and stamped "Temporary Proof of Lawful Permanent Resident"

• Record of Arrival and Departure (I-94) stamped "Refugee," "Parolee" or "Asylee"

• Unexpired foreign passport accompanied by the approved I-94 documenting the applicant's most recent admittance into the United States

• Valid foreign passport stamped "Processed for I-551"

• Permit to Reenter the United States (I-327)

• Refugee Travel Document (I-571)

CAN I USE MY OUT-OF-STATE OR IOWA DRIVER'S LICENSE OR ID CARD AS PROOF OF IDENTITY?
No. The Iowa DOT does not accept an out-of-state license as primary proof of identity, even if marked as REAL ID-compliant, and the federal REAL ID requirements require an Iowa driver’s license or ID card holder applying for his or her first REAL ID-marked driver's license or ID card to submit one of the identity documents listed above.

However, you should still bring your out-of-state or Iowa driver's license or ID card to the driver’s license issuance site when you appear for issuance, as you are required to surrender all other driver's licenses or ID cards when you obtain an Iowa driver's license or ID card.

 

[MistyWaters]

According to CRs first lawyer he came to the US when he was 16. Yarrabee stated CR had been in the US for 7 years and worked for them for 4. If so, CR illegally immigrated in about 2011 and was hired by Yarrabee Farms in about 2014.

I wonder where he lived and worked durung the first 3 years? If he was using the fake name of John Budd in 2011, by 2014 when he was hired by Yarrabee Farms he’d possibly came in hand with prior employment history and work references.

My point is if the Feds did choose to make Yarrabee Farms an example of lax hiring practises involving illegal immigrants, CRs prior employers should be held equally accountable.

 

[wary]

I am not sure but a better question would be....

What if Lizzy was not qualified to use the tools in the box, let’s say your employees had to be certified and licensed to use the tools by law but you were allowing them to check out the tools with the knowledge they were not certified to use them?

That would definitely matter if she had hurt herself or others through lack of knowledge of the proper way to use the tools.

I'm not sure that it matters if she uses the tools in a way that no certification or licensing would have prevented.