Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #45

[CuriousCricket]

Rather, deliberation and premeditation require only that the defendant paused, for at least a few moments, to consider his actions, during which time a reasonable person would have had time to second guess such actions.”
First-Degree Murder Overview :: Justia

Such as "coming to" and making a U-Turn to go to the cornfield instead of rushing to the nearest hospital?

 

[Mica]

Such as "coming to" and making a U-Turn to go to the cornfield instead of rushing to the nearest hospital?

Exactly!

 

[Jaclin]

He could have been buying if from the farm, a surplus vehicle. Like a "tote the note" lot they pay the title, tax and licence, hold the title in their name, give him a signed purchase agreement and a written authorization to use the car to show to LE. The employer takes a deduction from every paycheck to cover $270/month. If he runs off with the car, it is a stolen vehicle, the Farm's insurance may cover the loss and he has an arrest warrant out against JB. One fake ID fried, and a hot car in somebody(s)' else's name.

that sounds like "rent to own".

 

[TL4S]

I know I've seen other posts saying CR might have driven right past his house, but I didn't know he literally lived off 200st. I thought he was closer to the farm. That is only 1.5 miles straight north from the LE POI map 430th and 200st. location. If he drove the easiest route south, he did go right past his house. That is wild, imo.

Top red circle is CR's house, bottom red is LE's POI.

Am I seriously always the last person to figure these things out?

 

[Jaclin]

or he purchases the car at any tote the note place and cruses threw a shopping parking lot and finds a look a like car and poof he has tags for his car. in my area it is common for someone to steal a plate that is in date and put just any old plate on the car they stole the good plates from. if the tags are missing you tend to notice that, I drove on tags someone else had traded with me, unknown to me, and even put my new sticker on when I renewed. it got called to my attention but I had had the wrong tags for at least 11 months before a state trooper pointed it out to me.

I could totally see that happen with standard uncustomized plates, which is what most people get. Whenever I dropped off my car for service, I always had to list the plate number and I never knew it. I always had to go out to my car and look. Lately, I've started getting customized special plates, so I have no problem remembering what my plate has on it. I would definitely notice right away now, but before I might never have known unless I got a fine for speeding or going over a toll bridge where I knew I didn't travel. Or, if it was brought to my attention by LE.

 

[Jaclin]

Followfacts, Missy Bevers died of "multiple puncture wounds found on her head and chest" that "are consistent with tools the suspect was carrying throughout the building.""

And the tool he was carrying was a hammer. Weird to have puncture wounds from a hammer.

Missy Bevers Died From Multiple Puncture Wounds: Police

they would be from the back end that is used to pry nails out of boards.

 

[Jaclin]

Are puncture wounds sharp force injuries? Is a Hammer blunt force? Even if one end punctures ?

MOO the flat end of the hammer that is used to drive nails in would be blunt force. The claw end of the hammer would be sharp force. If it punctures, it is sharp force.

 

[Jaclin]

Yeah, read the article in the 9/13/18 Des Moines Register about CR benefiting from a diminished capacity defence based on his "blocking out".

It reads exactly like the last 3 weeks of WS discussion on this thread, only with more verified experts!

I think it is important to determine whether he is claiming to have "blacked out" or if he simply "blocked out his memory". Blacking out might allow for a diminished capacity defence where blocking it out after the fact, MOO, would not.

 

[Jaclin]

Good morning all. Here are my questions for the day:

• Didn't CR's father say in his interview that he didn't know of any "blocked memory" issues in CR's past?

• Wouldn't the '"blocked memory" diminished capacity' argument be basically worthless as a defense for murder if the murder had taken place after he had already "come to"? As in it happening in the cornfield versus 385th or somewhere along the way.

• Since we know CR used his phone to determine the route he'd taken on the night in question, couldn't LE have therefore used his phone's locator system as a basis for their 7:45 - 8:28pm incident time limits?

• Why didn't CR delete his phone's locator history during his 5 weeks undetected?

MOO he probably didn't remember exactly how he got there. he was just trying to find someplace away from Brooklyn to get rid of his evidence, so he drove to the end of the road, turned and drove a distance onto another road, turned again, and so forth. Then, once he felt he had moved the body far away enough from likely search areas, he dumped her off. Then, he wasn't sure exactly how to get back to his farm, so he used Google maps to get directions from his location to his farm. He probably saved that location so he could keep an eye on where police were investigating in proximity to the body dump location.

 

[Al Hoffman]

If CR has a history of “blocked memory” from anger, as he says, I think his father would know about it, IMO. He lived with him for 16 years. According to his father, CR “never had any problems and did not show signs of violence.” Maybe CR’s “memory issues” began after arriving in Iowa. But I think it’s more of a bs story than not. IMO

Yes. That is what the father said in the clear, to a reporter. But in a country as corrupt and violent as Mexico, one might want to watch one's tongue.

In Vietnam, the villagers caught in the middle would outright lie about, or be circumspect in what they would tell U.S. troops if the Viet Cong were active in the area.

Can we really trust what the father says about life in his quiet village, without knowing how much Narco Terrorista activity is on going in the area around his quiet village....

The Samurai Book of Leaves teaches us that if you kill a man, make the witness help you get rid of the body. This is part and parcel of basic gang initiation.

Depending on what a PI may find in Mexico, about CR's past, the defence can spin a tail about how traumatic events in his youth made CR the unstable victim of PTSD, IED, ASPD, NPD or whatever alphabet of psych diagnoses and disorders they must throw against the wall to see what sticks to the jury, to plant reasonable doubt in the jury's mind!


**********************DOUBLE POST****************

If it’s true, after she asked him to leave her alone and threatened to call the police, then she started to run and so he chased her down.....he became the violent attacker of a smaller female who attempting to flee from him.

I’m not able to think of a dissociative episode connected to PTSD that would provoke such a scenario, if placing CR in a victim role.

I'm saying that the narrative is that CR lost his temper, went into a PTSD dissoiative semi-reality state, killed MT, and now has an event-caused amnesia caused by the trauma of the murder he committed.

A fantastic sentence of psychobabble (If I do say so myself), that a jury might just buy as a basis for a Diminished Capacity defence, and one that could well plant reasonable doubt in the minds of the jury.

It may even be a more emotional than rational argument, but it is one that I think could work to sow the seeds of reasonable doubt in the fertile minds of the right jurors, especially if they are already filled with internet crap!

No offence intended to you in my answer, but it does not matter what you think, only what BS the defence can get the jury, or even a single juror to believe. Look at the difference of opinion here on WS. That kind of diversity of thought can make for an acquittal or a hung jury. That is where your mind has to go now.

I have had the pleasure of testifying in open court in a Civil case, as the expert witness in front of a jury, in Baton Rouge, La. My Kung Fu was much stronger than that of the attorneys from All Snake Insurance Company.

As I testified, speaking much the same way as I write on this thread, I pulled prop after prop out of my Sports Jacket pockets to demonstrate my findings to the jury. As the afternoon wore on, the expert witness from California began to get nervous about missing his flight back to Los Angeles. Then the the jury began following my actions, touching themselves as a I did every time I said "Shoulder, Neck and Knee" pain. The All Snake attorney actually put his head down on the desk, in open court on folded arms in defeat, as the jury followed my choreography. Finally, All Snake called a recess, went in the back room and offered another $10k ,on top of their previous final offer. My side accepted, the jury were thanked and dismissed, we went home fat and happy. All Snake's crew left with their tails between there legs.

The point is, that you have to play to a jury, and you gotta know your hand, when to hold them, when to play the run, and when to fold.

It does not matter a tiddle, what any of us on WS believes. What will matter is what a jury can be persuaded to believe, and how they will vote after deliberations about this case. I have tried to share my Kung Fu with you. While my experience is in Civil court, the interaction with the jury (and sometimes the Judge), the audience you are playing to is key, whether in Civil or Criminal court.

I mention the Judge, as I once found myself testifying in open court, without a jury. The Insurance Company's attorney became so frustrated with my answers, even after asking to treat me as a hostile witness, that he literally threw his hands up in frustration, and said to the Judge: "You question him, as I can't get anything out if him!" The Judge and I proceeded to have a lengthy, very pleasant conversation, he on the Bench, me in the Witness box. We were able to clear up several misconceptions that he had about the subject at hand, and he ruled in my client's favor. Another boot to the head, of another Insurance Company. My Kung Fu was strong.

Best 2 falls out of three on the mat? I am a trained professional, and I can make adjustments to the human spine (I charge extra for pets and large animals)!

 

[CuriousCricket]

Depending on what a PI may find in Mexico,

Don't know how a jury will see it, but I would have to wonder how much an American PI can actually find in Mexico and how much of what he thinks he found is misinformation deliberately spoon fed to him . . .

 

[rebel123]

Yes, it's really a shame if he is veering in the direction of using his "history of memory blocks," or whatever they are planning on calling it, to drag out the whole process and force family and friends to endure a long trial. Imo... To me it just demonstrates what kind of character he really is.

It could be true; we just don't know; but what does count against him; is that he didn't fess up earlier; he waited for LE to find him (the vital CCTV is shrouded in mystery).

 

[rebel123]

I think you are correct. I’m not an attorney but it seems logical to me that memory follows an event and is the exact opposite of premeditation and intent to commit murder. Even if a defendant claims to not remember, other actions prove intent. In this case those actions include stalking her, chasing her as opposed to walking away, placing her body in the trunk and not seeking medical intervention, inflicting multiple sharp force injuries and not just one, all that shows intent to deliberately cause death imo.

“Deliberation and premeditation mean that the prosecutor must show that the defendant developed the conscious intent to kill before committing the murder. This is a low threshold and does not require showing that the defendant created an extensive plan before he committed the act (although that might sometimes be the case). Rather, deliberation and premeditation require only that the defendant paused, for at least a few moments, to consider his actions, during which time a reasonable person would have had time to second guess such actions.”
First-Degree Murder Overview :: Justia

That was done whilst his 'memory was blocked'.

 

[rebel123]

Thank you for always responding in a respectful and informative manner, Al. I truly appreciate your input!

1) Yes, I must have that wrong about the "blocked memory" comment because I can't find it, either.

2) For those who believe he killed her at the cornfield, my question is if he "came to" on the road before the cornfield and she was alive in his trunk, then the diminished capacity would only apply to the kidnapping part, wouldn't it? I only say this because I think it all indicates he inflicted those wounds before he "came to," thus not at the cornfield.

3) I do agree about the possible use of FitBit, as well. But his phone might have shown he parked his car on 385th at 7:45 and left the cornfield at 8:28pm, so they went with that. IDK Just a thought.

4) Yes, I have strongly considered OnStar as a source since gliving first brought it up!!

1) There has been a comment from someone media interviewed that he has anger issues.

2) That's correct; if the fatal wounds were inflicted at the 'cornfield' he has no defense; the forensics will tell the truth (providing the weather didn't destroy vital evidence).

 

[rebel123]

Don't know how a jury will see it, but I would have to wonder how much an American PI can actually find in Mexico and how much of what he thinks he found is misinformation deliberately spoon fed to him . . .

The main task of the PI would be to unpick LE's 'Timeline'; that creates doubt; also any school / medical records; testimony from a doctor that's treated CR.

 

[rebel123]

Great find, it has a lot of info!

Not a great source; just my opinion.

 

[Al Hoffman]

Thank you for always responding in a respectful and informative manner, Al. I truly appreciate your input!

1) Yes, I must have that wrong about the "blocked memory" comment because I can't find it, either.

2) For those who believe he killed her at the cornfield, my question is if he "came to" on the road before the cornfield and she was alive in his trunk, then the diminished capacity would only apply to the kidnapping part, wouldn't it? I only say this because I think it all indicates he inflicted those wounds before he "came to," thus not at the cornfield.

3) I do agree about the possible use of FitBit, as well. But his phone might have shown he parked his car on 385th at 7:45 and left the cornfield at 8:28pm, so they went with that. IDK Just a thought.

4) Yes, I have strongly considered OnStar as a source since gliving first brought it up!!

1) by now you have read the RO article that says the Iowa Uncle said no block outs. Other MSM from father, "no problems". Waiting to see what Danny DeVito playing Paul Drake PI finds for the Iowa Dynamic Legal Duo when he goes to Mexico. (Does the IDLD have a theme song, and a cool car yet?)

2) The dimished capacity defence only applies to what CR claims he can't remember.

He clearly expressed his intent to follow, approach and harras MT with what a reasonable and prudent man would take as ill intent. If this is enough to convince a jury of a lesser included charge of Kidnapping, then the felony murder rule allows CR to be convicted of Murder One, as he recalls the premeditation and the intent and beginning of his attempt to kidnap (abduct) MT.

Even if the diminished capacity defence is that he can't recall the murder, CR was of clear mind (by his own report) when he put himself in position to kidnap and kill MT, again this by his own confession.

However, he can't use as a defense to murder that he does not remember doing the murder, when he can recall initiating the actions that lead to the murder.

An analogous situation would be if CR had let loose a pack of dogs that killed MT. By putting himself on the road next to MT, with his known mental condition (known to himself that he blocks out when angry), he brought his "dog" to the fight. When MT spoke back to him, causing his "block out" he unleashed his "dog" thereby killing her, it does not matter where. He brought and unleashed the dog to the fight that killed MT. Even if he was in the parking lot having a beer while the dog did the killing, it was his weapon and his actions that caused her death.

But, to throw your dog a bone, if forensics can show definitively that he killed her after his self-reported block out ended, then his diminished capacity defence holds no water, as he is simply a liar. Only time and the jury will tell!

3) Agreed, but I don't think that LE had time to access the phone and evaluate the data and coordinate all of this before writing up the warrant. But maybe the FBI wunderkinds at the Firehouse were able to pull a rabbit out of warm and filthy place in a timely manner?

4) Agreed. Good on, and a shout out to SUPER SLEUTH gliving!

 

[rebel123]

I posted an article back some threads that was something about Guerrero having a high incident of violent crime, body dump sites, and insurgent groups. Even though he lived in a small village, I'd be willing to bet the violence was everywhere.

That's the thing, we really don't know much about his life in Mexico; half the police in Mexico are involved in drugs in one way or another; protecting drug cartels . It is a very 'chaotic place'.

 

[rebel123]

Great post! Seeing how differently people can view the known facts really does show what a jury pool might look like. It will be interesting to see what defense is used and if it's bought.

His new lawyers might seek to get the trial moved to another location.

 

[TL4S]

What I'm "baffled" about is that cornfield. He could have driven around randomly until he found a suitable place to park out of view (which that was), but I can't help feeling he had to have known that location for some reason. I looked around at the maps, and right next to that land is what looks like a cattle operation of sorts. Some buildings and you can see cows in the pasture. I wish I knew more about the dairy operation to know if they would buy/sell cows from local farms, or use bulls from various places vs keeping their own - for genetic diversity. I don't know, but it's just a thought that maybe CR had been down that road before for legitimate reasons (work), so knew what was there.