Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #46

[The Farm]

I am still checking in but this has been beat with a stick for now until more information is released.
SharonNeedles I would like to see the ride from where Mollie's supposed abduction point to where exactly she was dumped in that cornfield. The actual distance and time it takes. If you do not have time I understand and thanks for offering.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

That’s correct, the best hope for a good defence is demonstrating weakness in the prosecution’s evidence.

In this case we don’t know what that evidence is yet. But if it aligns with CRs statement but otherwise he intends on claiming some type of mental incapacity resulted in him stalking, approaching, then chasing and tackling Mollie without any prior history of mental ailments, I’m quite certain one or two prosecution experts would be available to testify about the well known effects of certain illegal drugs. Because that’s on the top of my list for a most likely cause of random aggression while “blocking” out, not that it would give him a free pass.

That can be a slippery slope for any defendant that chooses this defense.

If he goes with the mental defense it will allow the state to bring in its on expert to examine and evaluate him. When that is the defense usually the presiding judge will also appoint another mental health doctor to evaluate the defendant as well.

Mental health claims rarely are successful for the evidence submitted in each trial shows the defendant knew what they did was wrong and usually the steps to cover up the crime supports that.

If he uses this defense imo it will not be successful. Imo....jurors will weigh the evidence by using their common sense.

Imo they will believe the supposed 'block' or blackout he said he had during his worst criminal acts were nothing more than convenient selective memory to avoid admitting to the horrific details he did against Mollie.

Jmo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

No, I can't realistically think of a possible scenario under which multiple sharp force injuries would be considered accidental (although other posters have responded with some ideas based on other cases). Per definitions below of relevant terminology <portions of definitions below underlined by me>:

From dictionary.com:
ac·ci·den·tal
ˌaksəˈden(t)l/
adjective
adjective: accidental

1. 1.
   happening by chance, unintentionally, or unexpectedly.
   "a verdict of accidental death"
   synonyms: fortuitous, chance, adventitious, fluky, coincidental, casual, serendipitous, random; More
   antonyms: intentional

From Forensic Autopsy of Sharp Force Injuries: Overview, Definitions, Scene Findings:
Forensic Autopsy of Sharp Force Injuries:
Overview
Injuries produced by pointed objects or objects with sharp edges are referred to as "sharp force injuries." Sharp force injuries are characterized by a relatively well-defined traumatic separation of tissues, occurring when a sharp-edged or pointed object comes into contact with the skin and underlying tissues. Three specific subtypes of sharp force injuries exist, as follows: stab wounds, incised wounds, and chop wounds.

Sticking to these definitions to try to answer the question, MHO is that the multiple "stab, incised or chop wounds" that were identified as the cause of Mollie's death by the coroner/medical examiner could not have "happened by chance", been "unintentional" nor "unexpected". These types of mortal wounds were inflicted intentionally during a violent physical assault with a sharp weapon used to disable/assault/kill her. Period. I'm confident LE/the DA have evidence to back this up as the basis for their charge of Murder in The First Degree.

In some past trial first degree murder cases I have seen prosecutors have used the repetive stabbing or repeated bludgeoning or repetive shots to prove premeditation.

The repeated stabbing and he also may have slashed her throat shows his intent was to murder Mollie. It takes aforethought to put these repeated stabs in to action. He could have stopped when he had only stabbed her once but that was never his intentions. He wanted her dead and voiceless and when he was through that is exactly how he left her.

Of course the prosecutor will introduce other supporting evidence of premeditation.

Imo

 

[TL4S]

Looks like this discussion has pretty much died off. Not necessarily a bad thing since there’s no new info.

I’m wondering tho, is there any need at this point to film any of the areas we’ve talked about? Weather permitting I’ll be in the area tomorrow and I’m wondering if I should make some time for that.

I might be too late in response, but I also would like to see the 1900 block of 385th, and 200th going south past 430 (and the area around 430th and 200th. Only if you have time and want to, of course. TIA!

 

[SharonNeedles]

I drove past Brooklyn on the way to Grinnell this morning, noticed the area is looking much different now. A lot of the fields have been harvested, I can see a lot further now. The bad news is I don’t have my GoPro today, but my iPhone takes good pics. I’ve got a long day of being a softball dad ahead of me, planning on touring Brooklyn as soon as this tournament wraps up.

 

[SharonNeedles]

I might be too late in response, but I also would like to see the 1900 block of 385th, and 200th going south past 430 (and the area around 430th and 200th. Only if you have time and want to, of course. TIA!

That’s all directly on my way home, not a problem.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

In some past trial first degree murder cases I have seen prosecutors have used the repetive stabbing or repeated bludgeoning or repetive shots to prove premeditation.

The repeated stabbing and he also may have slashed her throat shows his intent was to murder Mollie. It takes aforethought to put these repeated stabs in to action. He could have stopped when he had only stabbed her once but that was never his intentions. He wanted her dead and voiceless and when he was through that is exactly how he left her.

Of course the prosecutor will introduce other supporting evidence of premeditation.

Imo

Thanks, that's an interesting other aspect of premeditation, which is going to be an important part of the DA's case against CR. I recently reread the arrest affidavit and it says in black and white he did "with malice aforethought, willfully, deliberately, and with premeditation kill Mollie Cecelia Tibbetts", so LE had evidence of premeditation at the time of his arrest:

http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/082118+DCI+Arrest.pdf

 

[SharonNeedles]

This didn’t go as planned, it started raining pretty heavy and I was already cold and wet before I got to Brooklyn. Most notable observation:

The 1900 block of 385th Ave is just east of the S Curve. The road has no shoulder and CR would not have been able to just pull off to the side of the road. I found a spot here just east of the S curve that would be a pretty obvious spot to pull in. It’s a field entrance with a good gravel base, it would be easy to pull in here and park without drawing much attention.

This spot feels a lot more secluded than it appears on the map, you wouldn’t be visibile to oncoming traffic until they top the hill. You’d hear cars coming from either direction well before you could be seen.

More notes later - I’m wet, cold and tired. But our girls won the softball tournament so it was a good day!

 

[Charliegizmo49]

This didn’t go as planned, it started raining pretty heavy and I was already cold and wet before I got to Brooklyn. Most notable observation:

The 1900 block of 385th Ave is just east of the S Curve. The road has no shoulder and CR would not have been able to just pull off to the side of the road. I found a spot here just east of the S curve that would be a pretty obvious spot to pull in. It’s a field entrance with a good gravel base, it would be easy to pull in here and park without drawing much attention.

This spot feels a lot more secluded than it appears on the map, you wouldn’t be visibile to oncoming traffic until they top the hill. You’d hear cars coming from either direction well before you could be seen.

More notes later - I’m wet, cold and tired. But our girls won the softball tournament so it was a good day!

Once again you’re the best. Came through like a Prince

 

[Seattle1]

This didn’t go as planned, it started raining pretty heavy and I was already cold and wet before I got to Brooklyn. Most notable observation:

The 1900 block of 385th Ave is just east of the S Curve. The road has no shoulder and CR would not have been able to just pull off to the side of the road. I found a spot here just east of the S curve that would be a pretty obvious spot to pull in. It’s a field entrance with a good gravel base, it would be easy to pull in here and park without drawing much attention.

This spot feels a lot more secluded than it appears on the map, you wouldn’t be visibile to oncoming traffic until they top the hill. You’d hear cars coming from either direction well before you could be seen.

More notes later - I’m wet, cold and tired. But our girls won the softball tournament so it was a good day!

Thanks @SharonNeeles - just what I wanted to know re. the feel of the area versus what's visible on the aerial map!

 

[MsGazette]

This didn’t go as planned, it started raining pretty heavy and I was already cold and wet before I got to Brooklyn. Most notable observation:

The 1900 block of 385th Ave is just east of the S Curve. The road has no shoulder and CR would not have been able to just pull off to the side of the road. I found a spot here just east of the S curve that would be a pretty obvious spot to pull in. It’s a field entrance with a good gravel base, it would be easy to pull in here and park without drawing much attention.

This spot feels a lot more secluded than it appears on the map, you wouldn’t be visibile to oncoming traffic until they top the hill. You’d hear cars coming from either direction well before you could be seen.

More notes later - I’m wet, cold and tired. But our girls won the softball tournament so it was a good day!

Thank you and glad they won! So is the idea that he maybe pulled into that spot and started running alongside her once she passed? That picture gives me a very secluded feeling which is something I was missing all of this time following the case.

 

[d4j]

This didn’t go as planned, it started raining pretty heavy and I was already cold and wet before I got to Brooklyn. Most notable observation:

The 1900 block of 385th Ave is just east of the S Curve. The road has no shoulder and CR would not have been able to just pull off to the side of the road. I found a spot here just east of the S curve that would be a pretty obvious spot to pull in. It’s a field entrance with a good gravel base, it would be easy to pull in here and park without drawing much attention.

This spot feels a lot more secluded than it appears on the map, you wouldn’t be visibile to oncoming traffic until they top the hill. You’d hear cars coming from either direction well before you could be seen.

More notes later - I’m wet, cold and tired. But our girls won the softball tournament so it was a good day!

RBBM.
Hooray for your girls winning the softball tournament!
Much thanks for your field work and photos.

 

[EmmaRose]

This didn’t go as planned, it started raining pretty heavy and I was already cold and wet before I got to Brooklyn. Most notable observation:

The 1900 block of 385th Ave is just east of the S Curve. The road has no shoulder and CR would not have been able to just pull off to the side of the road. I found a spot here just east of the S curve that would be a pretty obvious spot to pull in. It’s a field entrance with a good gravel base, it would be easy to pull in here and park without drawing much attention.

This spot feels a lot more secluded than it appears on the map, you wouldn’t be visibile to oncoming traffic until they top the hill. You’d hear cars coming from either direction well before you could be seen.

More notes later - I’m wet, cold and tired. But our girls won the softball tournament so it was a good day!

Thank you so much for the visual. Your photo brought chills to my spine thinking about how helpless Molly must have felt in such a lonely spot way out there with someone after her. Was she running in the same direction as you were driving?
I just did not picture the area being as isolated as your photo shows it to be. And who would have suspected such evil would be lurking there? Frightening thought.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Thank you so much for the visual. Your photo brought chills to my spine thinking about how helpless Molly must have felt in such a lonely spot way out there with someone after her. Was she running in the same direction as you were driving?
I just did not picture the area being as isolated as your photo shows it to be. And who would have suspected such evil would be lurking there? Frightening thought.

The photo, and it’s portrayal of seclusion, reinforces the fact that to some degree CR chose the perfect place to abduct Mollie.

From any perspective it certainly supports premeditation. And yes Mollie was terrified for nearly all of her last hour alive.

Other than the obvious defenses already addressed by Sleuthers previous comments, I can’t imagine a defense that will begin to explain the event. Regardless any defense will never approach justification. Never.

Thank you SNeedles again for pic to help us understand.

 

[SharonNeedles]

Thank you so much for the visual. Your photo brought chills to my spine thinking about how helpless Molly must have felt in such a lonely spot way out there with someone after her. Was she running in the same direction as you were driving?
I just did not picture the area being as isolated as your photo shows it to be. And who would have suspected such evil would be lurking there? Frightening thought.

I do believe Mollie would have been running in the direction I was driving (east out of town). This would have been her view right after she passed through the S curve, and really the first point along the route that nobody other than a passing motorist would have been able to see. The field on her left (north side of the road) was beans, on her right was corn.

 

[SharonNeedles]

Another notable observation: 385th ave continues east until it meets 200th at which point you have three choices.

1) you can stay on the blacktop at it curves left (north) back up to Hwy 6 which in turn goes West either back towards Brooklyn and Grinnell or East out of the area. That’s the most traveled and if Mollie were running, at that intersection she would surely either go this way or simply turn around and run back to town on 385th.

2) you can continue straight (east) as it turns to gravel. (first map pic) This might be of interest if we’re considering a second crime scene. It’s pretty isolated and the road is not very well maintained. It curves and winds, meeting up with Old 6 Rd. Along the way there are several field entrances and an old railroad. I personally do not believe CR went this way, but I will note that that this is a stretch of road that offers multiple places to pull over and probably not encounter anyone.

3) you can turn right (south) on 200th which is what I consider to be CR’s most likely path. It’s gravel, but pretty well maintained and good to drive on (even yesterday in heavy rain). This way goes past one farm that was a point of interest as it continues south to Old 6 Rd. (second map pic) Although there’s very little along this gravel road, visibility is good and I did see a total of 3 other cars. Plenty of room to get over as I met oncoming cars.

More in a bit.

 

[SharonNeedles]

Here is the part of yesterday’s drive where I didn’t get to see what I wanted to see. To get from 38th Ave to the area around Guernsey it’s always seemed most likely to me that CR would travel south on 200th. After turning south onto 200th from 385th Ave the first mile was very well maintained and obviously heavily traveled.

That brings me to the intersection of 200th and Old 6 Rd - the next quarter mile or so of 200th looked really messy. Narrow low maintenance gravel, Low lying, very wet with lots of standing water. I think I could have gone that way and been okay, but I thought it best to wait for another (dry) day. I took Old 6 Rd to Hwy 21 instead which also goes south to the Guernsey area.

For what it’s worth, from the S curve on the 1900 block of 385th to the field where Mollie’s body was recovered via 200th would have taken me probably 25 minutes.

 

[The Farm]

I do believe Mollie would have been running in the direction I was driving (east out of town). This would have been her view right after she passed through the S curve, and really the first point along the route that nobody other than a passing motorist would have been able to see. The field on her left (north side of the road) was beans, on her right was corn.

If I have this correct the picture out the rainy windshield is when she has come out of the S-curve and you think he was in the pull off with the red circle which would be up ahead in that picture on her left??

 

[SharonNeedles]

If I have this correct the picture out the rainy windshield is when she has come out of the S-curve and you think he was in the pull off with the red circle which would be up ahead in that picture on her left??

That’s correct.

 

[The Farm]

To think that was the end her run right there is sad. It must have been a little creepy making that drive knowing that.
Thanks for the pictures....