Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #46

[tmar]

Why the first 72 hours in a missing persons investigation are the most critical

Social media now plays a vital role in missing person cases
Social media has become a "huge asset to safely recovering people," purely due to the ease of spreading the message, Fox said.

Fox used the example of Mollie Tibbetts, the Iowa college student who went missing in July and was found about a month later in a farm field.

"There as tons of social media coverage over trying to find her, getting the word out," Fox said. "In our research, we're finding that that is an effective message."

It saddens me, some missing persons obtain a great deal of media coverage, while others obtain very little.
I have followed cases, where this is the case: little public awareness.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

In the interest of posting to bump Mollie's thread back to the first page, doing some research on where CR comes from (Guayabillo Mexico, in the state of Guerrero (which means 'warrior' in Hispanic lexicon ))...
The crime rate in Guerrero is one of the highest of all the states in Mexico (link below to article):
18 criminal gangs are fighting for control of territory in Guerrero

Though this article/blog on MSM has some political opinions in it, there are some issues raised regarding Mexican male mentality and aggressiveness towards females that are IMO worthy of consideration as relates to what CR did to Mollie. I'll delete this link if the political aspects are not in keeping with WS TOS, apologies in advance if so!
https://www.americanthinker.com/art..._tibbetts_the_victim_of_mexican_machismo.html

 

[Twistinginthewind]

It saddens me, some missing persons obtain a great deal of media coverage, while others obtain very little.
I have followed cases, where this is the case: little public awareness.

That is so sadly, too true!!! Good for Mollie that her death (case) has been so widely publicized, but very tragic, sad, and horrific that for all the other thousands of victims of violence who have gone missing and/or been murdered and their cases aren't on the public radar whatsoever

 

[Twistinginthewind]

That is so sadly, too true!!! Good for Mollie that her death (case) has been so widely publicized, but very tragic, sad, and horrific that for all the other thousands of victims of violence who have gone missing and/or been murdered and their cases aren't on the public radar whatsoever

To add to my post above...
Any suggestions from legal or social welfare or criminal violence experts (or any 'wise ones' who can help with advice) on how to bring light to all missing persons/potential victims of violence in the US of A to get equal play in the media would be much appreciated!
IMO, we have to make positive, yet aggressive changes in our society and how we deal with and resolve crimes, and find a way for ALL victims of crime to be recognized and to be fought for for justice, regardless of race, creed, color, or gender! Just saying, IMOO. I'm soooo thankful the 'heinous crime' against Mollie (words of prosecutor that led to the setting of bail for CR to a $5 million cash bond) that her kidnapping and violent death is at the forefront of public awareness, don't get me wrong!! Just feel like the many tens of thousands of other victims of violent crimes (previous poster spelled out that they were seeking help here on this thread from WS'ers to identify tens of thousands of unknown human body remains on another thread). This is just so terrible and totally unacceptable and makes me sick (even with LE and their loved ones doing all they can) for all these people who were killed without any resolution here in our country, and their loved ones! It totally sucks. Just saying, sorry for ranting... huff, huff, huff! MOHO just the same!!

 

[Confusion]

To add to my post above...
Any suggestions from legal or social welfare or criminal violence experts (or any 'wise ones' who can help with advice) on how to bring light to all missing persons/potential victims of violence in the US of A to get equal play in the media would be much appreciated!
IMO, we have to make positive, yet aggressive changes in our society and how we deal with and resolve crimes, and find a way for ALL victims of crime to be recognized and to be fought for for justice, regardless of race, creed, color, or gender! Just saying, IMOO. I'm soooo thankful the 'heinous crime' against Mollie (words of prosecutor that led to the setting of bail for CR to a $5 million cash bond) that her kidnapping and violent death is at the forefront of public awareness, don't get me wrong!! Just feel like the many tens of thousands of other victims of violent crimes (previous poster spelled out that they were seeking help here on this thread from WS'ers to identify tens of thousands of unknown human body remains on another thread). This is just so terrible and totally unacceptable and makes me sick (even with LE and their loved ones doing all they can) for all these people who were killed without any resolution here in our country, and their loved ones! It totally sucks. Just saying, sorry for ranting... huff, huff, huff! MOHO just the same!!

Unfortunately, in order for all missing and murdered persons to have equal attention and media coverage, the high profile cases would have to receive a lot less than they do. If the general public were exposed to just the information that's available here, it would probably become so overwhelming for many that they'd just stop paying attention to any media coverage about anybody. If every missing/murdered person were to receive as much coverage as the high profile cases, I don't believe there'd be enough hours in the day for it all. I do wish more would receive a lot more attention than they do now (especially children), but I'm just grateful that anybody does at this point. MOO

 

[Charliegizmo49]

M hoping that investigators go to Rivera’s family home and find every minute detail of his life prior to coming into the USA. He may have been in one of those 18 gangs as a young man. Perhaps he’s experienced crime in Mexico.

Guayabillo, Guerrero, Mexico It looks like a very poor village.

 

[Ragnarok]

www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2018/10/11/mollie-tibbetts-cristhian-bahena-rivera-brooklyn-iowa-murder-suspect-update-news-missing-found-body/1600014002/

 

[Mica]

www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2018/10/11/mollie-tibbetts-cristhian-bahena-rivera-brooklyn-iowa-murder-suspect-update-news-missing-found-body/1600014002/

Thank you.

From the link...

When investigators interviewed Cristhian Bahena Rivera, they showed him a photograph of a black Chevy Malibu that drove back and forth in the area where Mollie Tibbetts was running on the evening she vanished, authorities said.

"Yes, that's my car," Bahena Rivera said, court records show.

Snip...

Bahena Rivera's defense team in September filed a motion arguing prosecutors must tell them what specific actions he was accused of taking to kill the 20-year-old University of Iowa student. His lawyers said details included in documents charging him with first-degree murder do not offer enough information for them to mount a defense in the case. (Those documents are not public.)

In response, prosecutors said in a public filing that the motion for a bill of particulars cannot be used to obtain the state's evidence. Bahena Rivera's attorneys filed the motion before receiving any discovery, which prosecutors said will further support the charge.

"The filing of this motion is premature," Scott Brown and Laura Roan, the Iowa assistant attorneys general prosecuting the case, said in court records.

A report from the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation will be finalized and delivered to Bahena Rivera's attorneys Friday. Further forensic testing was expected to be done in November, prosecutors said.

 

[SharonNeedles]

www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2018/10/11/mollie-tibbetts-cristhian-bahena-rivera-brooklyn-iowa-murder-suspect-update-news-missing-found-body/1600014002/

His attorneys also argued prosecutors have not provided information about how they intend to show the killing was premeditated. A crime scene report and two lab reports have not been provided to them, they said in the motion.

But in their resistance, prosecutors said an autopsy found Tibbetts died of multiple sharp force injuries, a cause of death that established a premeditated and deliberate killing.

I’m not comfortable with the source, Des Moines Register is Iowa’s version of the National Enquirer, but if this is accurate and that’s how the prosecution intends to convince twelve jurors that the act was premeditated I’m worried.

 

[girlhasnoname]

M hoping that investigators go to Rivera’s family home and find every minute detail of his life prior to coming into the USA. He may have been in one of those 18 gangs as a young man. Perhaps he’s experienced crime in Mexico.

Guayabillo, Guerrero, Mexico It looks like a very poor village.

BBM
Yes! I am also one that believes MT was NOT his first victim...….maybe his first time killing. Maybe.

I'd like to know exactly where he lived and how he earned money in Iowa before going to work with his Uncle. There are some unsolved sexual assaults and murders that occurred not far from Brooklyn during this timeframe.

This is not just a poor, innocent, shy "J Budd" immigrant lacking in social skills. I believe CR is a cold, calculating predator who has prior experience with this. I think he had seen MT running previously and devised a plan to abduct/SA her.....he didn't just stumble into the area with a sharp killing instrument handy where he first encountered her nor where he disposed of her body. He was able to continue working, acting and managing his daily routine with no problem.....and he has DEAD EYES!!!! A Socio/Psychopath for sure.

Just MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

His attorneys also argued prosecutors have not provided information about how they intend to show the killing was premeditated. A crime scene report and two lab reports have not been provided to them, they said in the motion.

But in their resistance, prosecutors said an autopsy found Tibbetts died of multiple sharp force injuries, a cause of death that established a premeditated and deliberate killing.

I’m not comfortable with the source, Des Moines Register is Iowa’s version of the National Enquirer, but if this is accurate and that’s how the prosecution intends to convince twelve jurors that the act was premeditated I’m worried.

BBM.....
Hi SharonNeedles, first let me say thank you for your videos. Very helpful and appreciated.

I think this is just one tiny part of a much bigger picture. I don't know why, but I feel like CR did a whole lot of talking during his conversation with LE.

 

[Mica]

BBM.....
Hi SharonNeedles, first let me say thank you for your videos. Very helpful and appreciated.

I think this is just one tiny part of a much bigger picture. I don't know why, but I feel like CR did a whole lot of talking during his conversation with LE.

I think there’s a ton of evidence the prosecution is keeping close to the vest.

 

[SharonNeedles]

BBM.....
Hi SharonNeedles, first let me say thank you for your videos. Very helpful and appreciated.

I think this is just one tiny part of a much bigger picture. I don't know why, but I feel like CR did a whole lot of talking during his conversation with LE.

Lord I hope you’re right.

 

[Alethea]

His attorneys also argued prosecutors have not provided information about how they intend to show the killing was premeditated. A crime scene report and two lab reports have not been provided to them, they said in the motion.

But in their resistance, prosecutors said an autopsy found Tibbetts died of multiple sharp force injuries, a cause of death that established a premeditated and deliberate killing.

I’m not comfortable with the source, Des Moines Register is Iowa’s version of the National Enquirer, but if this is accurate and that’s how the prosecution intends to convince twelve jurors that the act was premeditated I’m worried.

Premeditation can happen in an instant. The cause of death will show what actions were necessary to cause a person's death. With multiple sharp force injuries, the perpetrator repeatedly moved his arm intentionally stabbing the victim over and over again. Each time he stabbed her it's a new premeditated action. After the first stab, he could have changed his mind and stopped. Each time he lifted the knife up he could have made a different decision and didn't stab her. This isn't an instantaneous killing but will likely show that it happened over a protracted period of time and MT was not killed with the first blow.

Compare this to a gunshot. One gunshot to the head or chest can kill a person. There's often no second or third shot. In that case, the defendant can try to make the argument that it was completely unplanned and impulsive - one single shot went off and he really regretted it but couldn't take it back. Of course prosecutors prove premeditation all the time with gunshots but the fact that it is instantaneous leaves no room for a perpetrator to "stop" after the first act. With a stabbing, there's a lot of time to stop. Even if it would be futile because the first stab was fatal, there are still intentional knowing actions for each additional stab.

If this goes to trial I am sure the prosecution will use a dummy and illustrate exactly how MT was stabbed and how long it took her to bleed out and die. When jurors are sitting horrified in a silent courtroom letting 8, 10, 20, minutes tick by they will see just how much time the defendant had to know and continue the murder. It will be very hard for the defense to say it wasn't intentional as the jurors sit there experiencing the amount of time he took to murder Mollie.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Premeditation can happen in an instant. The cause of death will show what actions were necessary to cause a person's death. With multiple sharp force injuries, the perpetrator repeatedly moved his arm intentionally stabbing the victim over and over again. Each time he stabbed her it's a new premeditated action. After the first stab, he could have changed his mind and stopped. Each time he lifted the knife up he could have made a different decision and didn't stab her. This isn't an instantaneous killing but will likely show that it happened over a protracted period of time and MT was not killed with the first blow.

Compare this to a gunshot. One gunshot to the head or chest can kill a person. There's often no second or third shot. In that case, the defendant can try to make the argument that it was completely unplanned and impulsive - one single shot went off and he really regretted it but couldn't take it back. Of course prosecutors prove premeditation all the time with gunshots but the fact that it is instantaneous leaves no room for a perpetrator to "stop" after the first act. With a stabbing, there's a lot of time to stop. Even if it would be futile because the first stab was fatal, there are still intentional knowing actions for each additional stab.

If this goes to trial I am sure the prosecution will use a dummy and illustrate exactly how MT was stabbed and how long it took her to bleed out and die. When jurors are sitting horrified in a silent courtroom letting 8, 10, 20, minutes tick by they will see just how much time the defendant had to know and continue the murder. It will be very hard for the defense to say it wasn't intentional as the jurors sit there experiencing the amount of time he took to murder Mollie.

Absolutely agree 110%!! How dramatic but poignant would that possibly be, especially if they know the detailed information from the Fitbit and can simulate it? Innocent, sweet Mollie....the fact that the last face she saw on this earth was his makes me so sad and angry.

 

[SharonNeedles]

Premeditation can happen in an instant. The cause of death will show what actions were necessary to cause a person's death. With multiple sharp force injuries, the perpetrator repeatedly moved his arm intentionally stabbing the victim over and over again. Each time he stabbed her it's a new premeditated action. After the first stab, he could have changed his mind and stopped. Each time he lifted the knife up he could have made a different decision and didn't stab her. This isn't an instantaneous killing but will likely show that it happened over a protracted period of time and MT was not killed with the first blow.

Compare this to a gunshot. One gunshot to the head or chest can kill a person. There's often no second or third shot. In that case, the defendant can try to make the argument that it was completely unplanned and impulsive - one single shot went off and he really regretted it but couldn't take it back. Of course prosecutors prove premeditation all the time with gunshots but the fact that it is instantaneous leaves no room for a perpetrator to "stop" after the first act. With a stabbing, there's a lot of time to stop. Even if it would be futile because the first stab was fatal, there are still intentional knowing actions for each additional stab.

If this goes to trial I am sure the prosecution will use a dummy and illustrate exactly how MT was stabbed and how long it took her to bleed out and die. When jurors are sitting horrified in a silent courtroom letting 8, 10, 20, minutes tick by they will see just how much time the defendant had to know and continue the murder. It will be very hard for the defense to say it wasn't intentional as the jurors sit there experiencing the amount of time he took to murder Mollie.

But the reality of the situation as I’m sure you’re aware is that premeditation only exists if you can convince twelve jurors that it does. Don’t underestimate the political overtones here.

 

[Confusion]

But the reality of the situation as I’m sure you’re aware is that premeditation only exists if you can convince twelve jurors that it does. Don’t underestimate the political overtones here.

I hate to say it, but I'm one of those people who would be harder to convince; luckily, I'm always excused from jury duty because of my health. Since she is an attorney, I'm assuming that Alethea knows what she's talking about. My problem comes because of how premeditation was explained to me many years ago.

For example: A man and a woman are arguing in the kitchen and one of them gets so mad he/she picks up an knife and stabs the other one several times; that would be considered 2nd degree murder because the person meant to commit murder, but didn't plan on it ahead of time. Compare that to a man and woman are arguing in the living room and one gets so mad he/she goes into the kitchen, grabs a knife, returns to the living room and stabs the other one (any number of times); that would be considered to be premeditated because the person planned to commit murder by going to get the weapon and returning to commit the act.

Because that definition is ingrained in my mind, I'd need to see some evidence that murder was his goal before he actually did it. It may not make sense to most people, but it's why I think they should consider other/lessor charges too, such as felony murder because he killed her while/after he abducted her and/or while committing/attempting a sexual assault, or second degree murder if they believe he may have just murdered her out of fear or anger with no intentions of abducting her. Whatever he's charged with and convicted of, I hope he spends all, or at least most, of the rest of his life locked up. MOO

 

[SharonNeedles]

I hate to say it, but I'm one of those people who would be harder to convince; luckily, I'm always excused from jury duty because of my health. Since she is an attorney, I'm assuming that Alethea knows what she's talking about. My problem comes because of how premeditation was explained to me many years ago.

For example: A man and a woman are arguing in the kitchen and one of them gets so mad he/she picks up an knife and stabs the other one several times; that would be considered 2nd degree murder because the person meant to commit murder, but didn't plan on it ahead of time. Compare that to a man and woman are arguing in the living room and one gets so mad he/she goes into the kitchen, grabs a knife, returns to the living room and stabs the other one (any number of times); that would be considered to be premeditated because the person planned to commit murder by going to get the weapon and returning to commit the act.

Because that definition is ingrained in my mind, I'd need to see some evidence that murder was his goal before he actually did it. It may not make sense to most people, but it's why I think they should consider other/lessor charges too, such as felony murder because he killed her while/after he abducted her and/or while committing/attempting a sexual assault, or second degree murder if they believe he may have just murdered her out of fear or anger with no intentions of abducting her. Whatever he's charged with and convicted of, I hope he spends all, or at least most, of the rest of his life locked up. MOO

The argument that I’ve heard before, as it pertains to what I think the Register article implies, is this: if you get mad, grab a knife and stab someone it’s hard to argue premeditation. But if you stab someone 100 times it can be argued that there was a point where you consciously decided to continue what you’re doing with the intent to kill and that constitutes premeditation. The argument then becomes at what point was a conscious decision made.

But whether that’s right or wrong becomes a moot point when you’ve got just one juror who, for whatever reason, isn’t buying it.

 

[Confusion]

The argument that I’ve heard before, as it pertains to what I think the Register article implies, is this: if you get mad, grab a knife and stab someone it’s hard to argue premeditation. But if you stab someone 100 times it can be argued that there was a point where you consciously decided to continue what you’re doing with the intent to kill and that constitutes premeditation. The argument then becomes at what point was a conscious decision made.

But whether that’s right or wrong becomes a moot point when you’ve got just one juror who, for whatever reason, isn’t buying it.

Let's just hope all other people who think about it like I do are also excused from jury duty for one reason or another. My fear isn't that he'll be convicted of first degree murder if he didn't plan it ahead of time, it's that he'll be found not guilty because there isn't proof that he did. I'm just hoping they have all of their bases covered without any backup choices for the jury (felony murder is also 1st degree, but doesn't have to be premeditated - or even intentional.) MOO

 

[SharonNeedles]

Let's just hope all other people who think about it like I do are also excused from jury duty for one reason or another. My fear isn't that he'll be convicted of first degree murder if he didn't plan it ahead of time, it's that he'll be found not guilty because there isn't proof that he did. I'm just hoping they have all of their bases covered without any backup choices for the jury (felony murder is also 1st degree, but doesn't have to be premeditated - or even intentional.) MOO

I hadn’t thought about it until just now, but there’s a very real chance my county will host this trial. We just had another high profile case tried here, I guess we’re a popular “change of venue” county. Wouldn’t that be something if I got jury duty?

My fear is simply that this case will have a hell of a time getting a fair and impartial jury. It’s going to be hard to find jurors around here that haven’t already formed an opinion. I’m sure I’d be excused simply because I’ve been so obsessed with the case from the beginning, but at the same time I won’t have an opinion until I’ve seen both sides present their case.