ID - 2 year boy accidentally shoots and kills mother in walmart in ths US

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Because open carry isn't allowed in most states. Perhaps you could lobby to have those laws changed. The only ones effected by gun restrictions are the law abiding citizens.

That's not true, the only people effected by gun restrictions are the people who refuse to obey those laws, ie criminals. What of the effect that gun ownership has on people who wish to live peacefully and not carry, or feel the need to carry at all, when those guns are used in public. What of the other shoppers in Walmart who had to witness the shooting of this woman for instance, what about their rights?
 
Well apparently you have never done any research into world suicide statistics so it is anyone's guess what you are basing your "reasoning" on.

Japan has virtually NO civilian firearms yet their suicide stats are TWICE that of the U.S.

Canada actually has slightly higher suicide rates than the US as well.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/suiciderate.html

Access to firearms is only one variable in suicide rates. It isn't the main one, but it is still statistically significant. Cultural differences have long been known (since Emile Durkheim's 'Suicide', one of the first works of sociology) to be a big factor. (PhD in sociology, here.)

eta:
see - http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/risk/
 
Well, I tend to come more from emotion and hunches than statistics, so I should be easy to knock down lol, but….

If I take a notion today to dye my hair blue and copy Marge Simpson’s do but there is no blue dye in my house, the probability that I will be doing this today goes way down. I might think of asking my friends if they have Marge dye; I might think of stealing some from my neighbors; I might think of trying to buy some blue dye online or in some store. But because it’s a whim or impulsive action on my part, if there is little to no supply that readily lines up with my demand, the moment might, just might, pass and my hair will remain purple.

If I get the urge to take my own life tonight, which thankfully I won’t, let’s say the idea of a gun appeals to me for that because it’s quick and easy. But if I have no gun and I can’t easily beg, borrow, or steal one, there’s a chance I just may live to see another day. We can’t put something to use that we do not have.

People will find another way to kill themselves, you say?

Here is someone who was willing to try a method of suicide that did not involve a firearm. She was alive when I got home. I once had a young woman houseguest make a suicide attempt while I was out. There was no gun on the property so killing herself with a firearm was not an option. She looked in my medicine cabinet to see what could be found. Nothing really, so she downed a bottle of Advil. A trip to the emergency room for a stomach pumping, and fifteen years later she is happily married with three beautiful girls. I shudder to think how that scenario might have played out had I had some weapons around that I felt no need to secure because my houseguest was an adult.

To me it stands to reason that there would be fewer suicides with fewer guns circulating. A gun is often a preferred instrument for taking one’s life because it provides the possibility of a simple, instantaneous, and efficient exit. The idea of slowly bleeding to death from slit wrists, for example, or gasping through a hanging death, or lying there waiting for pills to take hold, or summoning up the nerve to jump from a bridge could be unappealing enough that a person with no gun might find himself/herself still here, after all, to witness more sunrises. Not always, but sometimes the moment passes and the urge with it. You have a little bit of time to remember you have kids, or you sober up, or you call somebody and say you just scared yourself. But if there is a firearm in the armoire, and in one split second all troubles can be wiped away once and for all, how tempting is that?

To me it stands to reason that there would also be fewer murders with fewer guns circulating. Murderous rages, love triangles, domestic situations, sour business deals…..isn’t it easier to let a bullet do the work from a distance (think of the power-you are an annihilator) rather than to come within reach of another and have to deal with whatever defense is launched as you stab or bonk with a ball bat or try to throw your victim off a cliff? If the Sandy Hook perpetrator had come in with a knife, do we not suspect that an elementary building full of educators could have gained control of that knife somewhere shy of 26 innocents being slaughtered? Yeah, an armed teacher maybe could have taken care of everything in even shorter order. But when I stack up the odds of a gun being useful as self-defense against the possibility of the gun seeing criminal use or impulsive destructive use against self or others, I say no, thanks. You can say yes in the U.S.

The day that Sandy Hook occurred I thought, well, we finally know what it takes to generate more comprehensive firearms restrictions. A roomful of dead kids. Such a shame that it took that. What? Sales of high-powered automatic weapons and other weapons skyrocketed? In my view, a mentality that says give me more of what took the children out that day is a mentality that is very hard to deal with.

And that folks is the most compelling argument in this thread. And not one statistic, chart or article was cited. Bravo "waitin'4thewrld2chg"
 
What then is that the police will handle it. In my view, not just GardenLady's, no private citizen should own guns, only LE and the military.

If no private citizen had a gun, why would LE need a gun. In most cases the police arrive after someone's been shot. Sometimes days or even weeks after when the odor of decay alerts the neighbors. When LE straps on before a shift, they do so not expecting to be in a shoot out but they're prepared for one. They're not your first line of defense.....you are. Also there's a TV show about LE in Alaska. Outside of the larger cities, no one walks around without a gun due to bears. They go to their outhouses with a gun. They go fishing for salmon with a gun nearby. I wonder what the LE response time is in Alaska, yet you would strip them of protection as well. Many live off the land and hunt to supplement their food supplies. But your draconian no guns for anyone except LE, let 'em starve is so progressive. Yea, lets do that. You're never going to disarm the gang bangers and bank robbers. Not with 1000 laws. Do you doubt it?
 
You too want men with guns to do violence on your behalf.

Isn't that kind of selfish? Expecting someone else to have to take the drastic step of shooting someone, just because you refuse to take responsibility for your own safety?

This kind of reminds me of people who are against hunting, because it's cruel to shoot Bambi.... while they pick out their steaks and pork chops wrapped in plastic at the grocery store.

OK so you are saying we should take the guns from the cops? Because nobody else should be doing any "killing on our behalf".

Why does the term "every man for himself " keep popping into my head right now?
 
Boston is a big city as is Chicago. Perhaps they're overcrowded. I'll bet you could find a study that says that the farther away from an inner city you go, there's less and less crime per capita. Maybe we should restrict the capita per acre of land. In any case, more laws aren't going change anything. Laws are for the law abiding.

LOL... Like the Wild West right?

I'm sorry maybe I am just too "Canadian" but this really is getting silly to me. JUST MY OPINION though!
 
There is indeed a very strong correlation between population density and crime rates.

Areas with low population density tend to have lots of legally owned guns and lower crime rates.

Areas with high population density tend to have few legally owned guns (but many illegally owned guns), and higher crime rates.

But no.... please don't send the thugs to my little rural area. We like things the way they are. Keep 'em in the cities, please.

BBM - LOL, then why did you compare TORONTO to VERMONT?
 
And that folks is the most compelling argument in this thread. And not one statistic, chart or article was cited. Bravo "waitin'4thewrld2chg"
Not at all. If a teacher or custodian in that school had a gun, lives may have been saved. The police couldn't save them. At Ft.Hood, more lives would have been lost if not for someone returning fire.
 
LOL... Like the Wild West right?

I'm sorry maybe I am just too "Canadian" but this really is getting silly to me. JUST MY OPINION though!

Then feel free to drop out. LOL. Canadians aren't going to change the rights of Americans anyway.
 
Well apparently you have never done any research into world suicide statistics so it is anyone's guess what you are basing your "reasoning" on.

Japan has virtually NO civilian firearms yet their suicide stats are TWICE that of the U.S.

Canada actually has slightly higher suicide rates than the US as well.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/suiciderate.html

And here is more research that shows us more guns = more suicide (especially successful suicide)

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/magazine-features/guns-and-suicide-the-hidden-toll/

There is lots more where that came from if folks want to play "who has the most research game".
 
Not at all. If a teacher or custodian in that school had a gun, lives may have been saved. The police couldn't save them. At Ft.Hood, more lives would have been lost if not for someone returning fire.

OR it could have turned into a shootout and even more tragic loss of life
OR with proper gun restrictions the sicko killer couldn't have gotten his hands on automatic weapons and therefore less tragic loss of life.
 
BBM - LOL, then why did you compare TORONTO to VERMONT?

Trying to get across the point that's it NOT THE GUNS.

If guns were responsible for crime, then Vermont would have a higher crime rate, despite its more rural nature.

If guns were responsible for crime, then the county I live in would have a higher crime rate, despite its more rural nature.

It's not the guns.


Wishing it were so does not make it so.
 
OR it could have turned into a shootout and even more tragic loss of life
OR with proper gun restrictions the sicko killer couldn't have gotten his hands on automatic weapons and therefore less tragic loss of life.

Or only the gunman would have been killed.
 
Not at all. If a teacher or custodian in that school had a gun, lives may have been saved. The police couldn't save them. At Ft.Hood, more lives would have been lost if not for someone returning fire.
I agree with you. I said as much. Regarding Sandy Hook, I said, ‘An armed teacher maybe could have taken care of everything in even shorter order.’
 
OR it could have turned into a shootout and even more tragic loss of life
OR with proper gun restrictions the sicko killer couldn't have gotten his hands on automatic weapons and therefore less tragic loss of life.
So, yes, maybe a member of the school staff or administration could have stopped the slaughter at Sandy Hook with a firearm....I don't think we can say it's outside the realm of possibility.

But I went on to say that when I stack up the odds of a gun being useful as self-defense against the possibility of the gun seeing criminal use or impulsive destructive use against self or others, I say no, thanks. Reasons such as those outlined here by CoolJ are at the top of my list, too. There is a broader picture.
 
Also there's a TV show about LE in Alaska. Outside of the larger cities, no one walks around without a gun due to bears. They go to their outhouses with a gun. They go fishing for salmon with a gun nearby.

I haven't seen that one, but I occasionally catch Northwoods Law -- similar, but in Maine. It always makes me smile at the difference between big-city cops and rural ones.

Cops there understand that people having guns does not mean they're dangerous. In big cities, they see someone with a gun and they panic -- because in the big cities, most people who have guns are criminals who have them illegally. But in rural Maine, they walk up to people with guns all the time. No big deal. "Hey, how you doin'? Do you have a tag for that buck?" "Hello, sir, do you know why I stopped you?" "Good afternoon. Is that your trash littering the roadside?" All those people with guns aren't a concern to the cops there, because they know that "people with guns" does not equal "people who are violent criminals."
 
Thank you, Sonjay.

I see your reasoning, but I have to remind you that this very thread exists because of a gun death resulting from legal CCW. True, the toddler shot his mother, but he might have shot me had I been standing nearby.

I'm not questioning your understanding of the law, but if it is true that I don't have the right to distance myself from a woman juggling shopping, four children AND a loaded revolver, that is seriously effed up! I didn't ask this question to start yet another argument, but it seems the Second Amendment is being used to give those who like their guns privileges far beyond the rights afforded the rest of us.

Nope, you have the exact same right to carry as I do.

Er.... well... maybe not. Palm Springs California? Cali is still fighting over gun and carry rights. So I'm sure you're completely safe there from anyone who might have a gun.
 
No, the cops need guns.

But I think it's both unrealistic and selfish to expect other people -- with guns -- to shoot someone for you, because you're too squeamish about guns to take responsibility for your own life and safety.

But really, that's okay, because it's not likely the cops would get there in time to shoot someone for you anyway. Mostly they show up to draw chalk outlines and write reports and do investigations after the fact. Not their fault; I'm not criticizing the police. But they can't be everywhere at once.

As TrackerSam said above, the cops are not your first line of defense; you are.

LinasK understands that ... She keeps dogs, knives, and baseball bats.

If you're a small person, man or woman, I doubt the knife and bat will save you. Dogs are a great early warning system. They alert you and give you time to get your gun.
 
And yet just recently, a police chief accidentally shot his wife in the back. She survived.

With a loaded gun in his bed, if we're referring to the same case. Not the normal situation. The very reason not to have a gun in the home. We don't need militias anymore.
 
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