ID - 2 year boy accidentally shoots and kills mother in walmart in ths US

[Hatfield]

I'm not sure why people think gun control means a total ban on guns :dunno:

Short of a total ban to reduce criminals access to them and reduce the numbers of guns, how does any other form of gun control reduce the possibility that a criminal can get access to a gun?
Remember, a criminal is not going to obey ANY type of regulation (getting permit, having a licence to carry, buying it legally, etc.).

 

[Lulu14]

That certainly is true, new "gun" laws are likely not going to change a criminals behaviour. But it could definitely make it very tough for a criminal to manage to get his/her hands on a gun. At least that's what we see in nations that have restricted access to handguns.

Like France?

 

[Sonya610]

There would probably have to be mutliple sweeps too of this same search + seize because the public would probably find out which areas are being done, and certain people will move their guns to a different friends home while the searches are happening, and then get them back afterwards. There would be a certain percentage that would most likely never be retrieved.

The US is NOT an island. We have a massive amount of drugs (and illegal aliens) coming into the country from Mexico every day.

Even if every firearm in America magically disappeared that wouldn't last long, Mexican gangs and others would quickly see it as a money making opportunity and start importing black market firearms the same way they import drugs.

IMO if the goal truly was to reduce the amount of gun deaths then reforming the prison system would do the trick. Start giving out LONG prison sentences for those in possession of illegal firearms (and straw buyers) and make it feasible to handout lengthy sentences by instituting prison labor so the incarceration doesn't drain the tax payer.

 

[Hatfield]

The US is NOT an island. We have a massive amount of drugs (and illegal aliens) coming into the country from Mexico every day.

Even if every firearm in America magically disappeared that wouldn't last long, Mexican gangs and others would quickly see it as a money making opportunity and start importing black market firearms the same way they import drugs.

I agree that the black market would increase a lot. Similar to illegal drugs pretty much everywhere. I think the idea is if there is a substantial reduction then at least it may help a little bit to prevent criminals from getting their hands on them. I am not sure how effective it would be because criminals dont obey laws and they would probably be the ones trading in that black market that we know would increase dramatically.

Those France terrorists are a pretty good recent example because their weapon of choice were very large weapons that are easily spotted. They sure got their hands on them somehow and I think France has very restrictive gun laws.

 

[Sonya610]

I think another fundamental difference between firearm owners and anti-gun folks is the attitude towards the government.

One group truly believes the government will "take care of them" in a crisis while the other group does not trust the government to take care of ANYTHING in a crisis. They believe they need to be prepared to take care of themselves and protect their own families.

Federal gun seizures would spark a whole lot of small civil wars. Georgia already passed a law that said civilians cannot be forced to give up their legal firearms even during marshal law or a state of emergency. Folks saw what happened during Katrina and many are NOT going to let it happen to them.

 

[Hatfield]

The US is NOT an island. We have a massive amount of drugs (and illegal aliens) coming into the country from Mexico every day.

Even if every firearm in America magically disappeared that wouldn't last long, Mexican gangs and others would quickly see it as a money making opportunity and start importing black market firearms the same way they import drugs.

IMO if the goal truly was to reduce the amount of gun deaths then reforming the prison system would do the trick. Start giving out LONG prison sentences for those in possession of illegal firearms (and straw buyers) and make it feasible to handout lengthy sentences by instituting prison labor so the incarceration doesn't drain the tax payer.

We can see just from the posts on this page how "gun topic" is a very complex thing and that is why it is important for governments to never make knee-jerk reactions after a terrible incident.

Regarding the bolded part, I have to agree here that being firm with criminals that do gun crimes and have severe sentences with no parole would help reduce gun crimes. Because I just read the other day in the news how criminals involved with gun crimes like strong arm robbery are the same ones being arrested over and over again. I think a lot of help could be gotten by just enforcing existing laws and then being firm with the sentences (with no parole) would get these type of people off the streets where they would not re-offend with another gun crime.

In my state, I am amazed at the lackadasial attitude our LE + courts have with real true gun crimes. Some of these same criminals are out on the streets after 2 years sometimes even though they did a strong arm robbery with a gun or they were arrested possessing a loaded gun illegally in their car when driving. Usually with some sort of parole or they got out some other way. Which is insanity because they usually do commit another crime.

 

[sonjay]

Respectfully, BBM. I'm not sure where you are getting your info, but it is not correct.



http://civilliberty.about.com/od/guncontrol/a/Gun-Shows.htm

Please read and comprehend the laws about firearm sales at gun shows.

The laws for all sales of firearms apply at gun shows exactly the same way they apply elsewhere.

The laws are:

FFL dealers must conduct background checks as required by law, regardless of where the sale takes place.

Private sellers are not required to conduct background checks, regardless of where the sale takes place.

There is no gun show loophole. There is no law that specifically exempts gun shows from any law regulating firearm sales.

I'll repeat: The laws for all firearm sales apply at gun shows exactly the same as they apply anywhere and everywhere else.

There is so much misinformation out there about guns and gun laws, it could be a full time job trying to get correct information out there.

 

[sonjay]

If criminals didn't have so many weapons, then ordinary folk wouldn't feel the need to have one handy to defend themselves either.

Yeah, we would.

Criminals can kill me with a knife, a hammer, their hands and feet, a machete, a rock, a baseball bat......

 

[Brightbird]

Please read and comprehend the laws about firearm sales at gun shows.

The laws for all sales of firearms apply at gun shows exactly the same way they apply elsewhere.

The laws are:

FFL dealers must conduct background checks as required by law, regardless of where the sale takes place.

Private sellers are not required to conduct background checks, regardless of where the sale takes place.

There is no gun show loophole. There is no law that specifically exempts gun shows from any law regulating firearm sales.

I'll repeat: The laws for all firearm sales apply at gun shows exactly the same as they apply anywhere and everywhere else.

There is so much misinformation out there about guns and gun laws, it could be a full time job trying to get correct information out there.

Yesterday I read up a bit to try and inform myself some more. So private sellers don't need to do background checks in most states? Is there anything to stop someone with a clean record buying guns from a licensed dealer and then selling them privately?

 

[sonjay]

Every day, something good happens at the state or community level that makes getting guns a little harder—and keeps families a little safer. That it might happen a little faster is a rational hope, and a proper holiday wish.

And that is why we object to more regulations. Because they are not intended to address crime or increase safety, they are aimed at making gun ownership harder.

 

[sonjay]

That certainly is true, new "gun" laws are likely not going to change a criminals behaviour. But it could definitely make it very tough for a criminal to manage to get his/her hands on a gun. At least that's what we see in nations that have restricted access to handguns.

A. Criminals don't care about laws and can get guns anyway. Witness Chicago, NY, & D.C.

B. If they can't get guns, they'll simply shift to using other weapons.

 

[sonjay]

I'm not sure why people think gun control means a total ban on guns :dunno:

Because so many of the gun control advocates, when they're being honest, admit that's what they ultimately want.

 

[sonjay]

The US is NOT an island. We have a massive amount of drugs (and illegal aliens) coming into the country from Mexico every day.

Even if every firearm in America magically disappeared that wouldn't last long, Mexican gangs and others would quickly see it as a money making opportunity and start importing black market firearms the same way they import drugs.

IMO if the goal truly was to reduce the amount of gun deaths then reforming the prison system would do the trick. Start giving out LONG prison sentences for those in possession of illegal firearms (and straw buyers) and make it feasible to handout lengthy sentences by instituting prison labor so the incarceration doesn't drain the tax payer.

And not just Mexican gangs. There will always be people like Leland Yee -- politicians who support gun control while importing illegal firearms.

 

[Sonya610]

Yesterday I read up a bit to try and inform myself some more. So private sellers don't need to do background checks in most states? Is there anything to stop someone with a clean record buying guns from a licensed dealer and then selling them privately?

Thugs do it a lot, they get a girlfriend or whomever with a clean record to buy their guns for them and the buyer can go to jail. It is in fact illegal.

Straw purchases are thought to account for the majority of guns in the hands of criminals however they are NOT from private sales, they are bought at licensed dealers.

 

[Brightbird]

Because so many of the gun control advocates, when they're being honest, admit that's what they ultimately want.

I find that hard to believe because in my experience, people who want gun control want just that - gun control/regulation. Not to ban all guns. You mentioned New Zealand earlier. They've got very strict gun control but they haven't banned most guns. I get that you don't like the idea of controlling people's use/ownership of guns, but it is not the same as banning all guns.

 

[TrackerSam]

That is rather an inane statement. I mean, really? If you are carrying a gun for "protection" against someone who may assault or kill you, what is the point of getting off a late shot? By the time you get to your weapon you will already be dead or disabled. And more than likely that person is going to take your gun when they get done assaulting you, so you won't have any weapon to get off that "late shot".

And if someone robs you and then runs away, are you going to shoot them in the back?

Are you? What are you going to do in the same situation? CC is about surprise not Quick Draw McGraw.

 

[sonjay]

Yesterday I read up a bit to try and inform myself some more. So private sellers don't need to do background checks in most states? Is there anything to stop someone with a clean record buying guns from a licensed dealer and then selling them privately?

I can go buy a gun tomorrow from a licensed dealer, and then turn around and sell it to my next-door neighbor. If I do that too many times, the ATF will consider me to be acting as a dealer without an FFL and will come down on me like a ton of bricks. The law prohibits people from "engaging in the business" of firearm sales without an FFL. It does not prohibit people from selling their personally owned guns.

There are laws about knowingly selling or providing a gun to a prohibited person. There are laws about straw purchases. There are lots and lots of laws governing gun ownership, sales, possession, transportation, carrying, storage, etc.

The laws are weird. I can buy a gun as a gift for someone who is legally allowed to own firearms -- completely legal. But it's not legal for that same person to give me money and have me go to the gun shop and buy a gun for him.

I gave my husband a cowboy gun once as a gift. As a gift, it was completely legal. It would have been illegal for him to give me the money for the purchase price and ask me to stop by the gun shop and pick it up for him.

Many of the "universal background check" laws that have been proposed -- and even passed in some areas -- would make it illegal for my husband to hold one of my guns. Not even talking about shooting it, or carrying it -- simply hold it. Some of those proposed laws would make it illegal for a hunter to hand his gun to his buddy for safety while he climbed a fence.

 

[TrackerSam]

Thanks - that's exactly how I feel. There really isn't any object or amount of money in the world id ever be willing to kill someone over.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Back ten or twenty years ago all they did was take your money. These days they take your money and shoot you anyway.

 

[TrackerSam]

I just went back to read this thread. I'm not believing it was accident.:snooty:

Neither did I at first, but he could have waited until she died before he called 911. He could have shot her in the head.

 

[TrackerSam]

I'm not sure why people think gun control means a total ban on guns :dunno:

Gun control means being able to hit what your aiming at.