ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #17

[AmyPond]

Every now and then I see people in this thread mention the possibility of the parents using drugs or alcohol at the campsite. Is this just speculation or has it been mentioned somewhere? (I haven't followed the case that closely so I wasn't sure.)

 

[CJidaho]

Search dogs are good. But never put your faith into them. They are trained to get and follow a scent. But since the mother always handled Deorr and his clothes and toys. Then why didn't the dogs keep going back to the mother?

I truly think the search dogs are good sometimes. But they are not a reliable means for the most part. Jmo.

JMO but I always thought that the "dogs couldnt get a scent" could have meant not a scent of him wandering off in some direction. Not that they couldnt smell him in obvious places like on mom and dad. MOO

 

[AbbeyBabbey]

We'd all love to believe that DeOrr is living a lovely life with a lovely family somewhere, but we are being realistic. Sadly, I don't believe it and I want his body to be found so he can he laid to rest with respect, and I want justice for DeOrr.

The BBM is not the only possible scenario that takes the parents out of a violent death incident at the hands of the parents. I feel that I'm being as realistic as the next person. Reality (for me) requires that actual facts are provided and all possibilities are still open until proven otherwise. That is not what's been happening over the past week (from what I've seen). That is certainly NOT what Klein is doing. LE has also verbalized that they have dismissed some possibilities based only on what they perceive to be "inconsistent statements" by the 'now named suspects' - that's all that's been given to us. That's not enough for me. ALL MOO!

 

[Sillybilly]

Every now and then I see people in this thread mention the possibility of the parents using drugs or alcohol at the campsite. Is this just speculation or has it been mentioned somewhere? (I haven't followed the case that closely so I wasn't sure.)

There is nothing to substantiate that from either MSM or LE ... it is strictly some members' speculative theories as to possibility.

 

[Elle*Bee]

rbsm

I respectfully disagree. I suspect the vast majority of us -- even those who looked askance at the parents right from the start -- wanted this case to have a happy ending. Even those who believed the worst of the parents most likely wanted desperately to be proven wrong. I cannot imagine the average person WANTING to believe that any baby died an awful death and certainly not at the hands of his parents. It's horrifying and tragic. I hope whatever did happen (no matter what it was) happened quickly and as painlessly as possible for his sake.

Purely my opinion, and I do not intend to speak for everyone.

You spoke for me. Thank you.:rose:

 

[DexterMorgan]

JMO but I always thought that the "dogs couldnt get a scent" could have meant not a scent of him wandering off in some direction. Not that they couldnt smell him in obvious places like on mom and dad. MOO

Let's say a parent gives a sheriff clothing for a dog to track. But let's imagine that the sheriff has on cologne or just smoked a cigarette or have other smells on their hands such as a previously eaten lunch sandwich or something. Then 9 x out of 10. The dog will have a mix scent of smell in this case. Jmo.

 

[Dee10]

I think Klein said on the radio show they are a team of 9 + Vilt previously all working on behalf of the family add in LE who know all the evidence...I just can't believe all these people could have it wrong.

Klein went on today he thinks and feels the sheriff has made it clear there will be charges, but they need to know what charges. I can understand that, who did what and who didn't but covered things up? Premeditated on one or both parties etc., what a nightmare.

Also on the tape today that there are a couple pieces of evidence just sent off to Quantico yesterday. Whaaat!?! Is someone talking? What could it be that they have just found to send away? Did they forget something? IDK

 

[Sillybilly]

Let's say a parent gives a sheriff clothing for a dog to track. But let's imagine that the sheriff has on cologne or just smoked a cigarette or have other smells on their hands such as a previously eaten lunch sandwich or something. Then 9 x out of 10. The dog will have a mix scent of smell in this case. Jmo.

That's not how scent articles are presented to the dogs. The personalized articles are appropriately bagged to prevent contamination from other sources.

Adding link to Ohio Valley SAR site with description of scent article:
http://www.vsar.org/vocab.html#scentpad

scent article - This is any article touched only by the subject that can be used by the tracking or training dog to gain the scent of the subject. Gathering the scent article is done with care so no other scent is present to confuse the dog. Preferably this article is one of clothing and is gathered with tongs or a stick, then placed in a paper or plastic bag. The dog then is offered the scent article, still in the bag or emptied onto the ground, to gain the subjects scent The dog is then given the command to start the search.

 

[bluesneakers]

Every now and then I see people in this thread mention the possibility of the parents using drugs or alcohol at the campsite. Is this just speculation or has it been mentioned somewhere? (I haven't followed the case that closely so I wasn't sure.)

I first saw it on SM (in July) because someone with JM's name was arrested on meth charges. A common name, different person in a different state, but once the rumour took hold there was no shutting it down.

This is JMO based on what I read. There might be other origins for the comments here.

 

[juli99]

I just can't imagine a scenario where they would move his body if they found he had drowned accidentally. I believe if something happened, it was either deliberate or involved gross negligence on their part to the point that they knew they would be in deep trouble if he was found.

 

[Purplepixii]

There is nothing to substantiate that from either MSM or LE ... it is strictly some members' speculative theories as to possibility.

It was also bandied about that infamous beast known as social media at the beginning. If I recall, Klein ruled it out during his first interview (think he called it a "red herring"?)

 

[Inthedetails]

I just can't imagine a scenario where they would move his body if they found he had drowned accidentally. I believe if something happened, it was either deliberate or involved gross negligence on their part to the point that they knew they would be in deep trouble if he was found.

I think you're right. If it were a pure accident, I don't think they would have been giving conflicting stories about it. I'm thinking it was neglect that lead to tragedy.

I think whatever happened happened before the trip to the store.

But, it's only speculation and subject to change as we learn more.

 

[SweetT]

In a child as old and mobile as Deorr, I'd think that a tumble down a steep hill would produce similar symptoms as SBS. Therefore, I'd see no reason for them to try to cover it up, except by saying he fell.

I dont think so honestly..and someone did post that you can have shaken baby syndrome even up to 5 yrs old...but a fall down a hill I do not think would also show as shaken baby syndrome JMO

 

[Rayemonde]

I just can't imagine a scenario where they would move his body if they found he had drowned accidentally. I believe if something happened, it was either deliberate or involved gross negligence on their part to the point that they knew they would be in deep trouble if he was found.

See, this is why the drugs theory makes sense to me even though there's no evidence for it that I know of. It could explain why they would cover up an accident, IMO.

 

[SweetT]

See, this is why the drugs theory makes sense to me even though there's no evidence for it that I know of. It could explain why they would cover up an accident, IMO.

I don't think you need to be drugged up to do something like that. I don't think KC anthony was drugged up when she killed Caylee, even though I think its totally different circumstances.

 

[Arnie M]

Originally Posted by Arnie M

During the interview VILT stated it was suspicious when (mother) Jessica said she kept looking back at DeOrr.

The parents say DeOrr chose to stay with GGP ... then both parents and Issac head toward the creek ....

I think it is perfectly normal for the mother to keep looking back to make sure the boy stayed with GGP and not follow them.

Perfectly normal. That is exactly what I would have done too. So would any mother.

VILT INTERVIEW http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/former-kunz-p-i/

It can be confusing, but MOST parents would look back to see their child was "staying put". They would not therefore mention it unless ASKED. They do not have to say "I kissed my son goodnight," "I told him I loved him", etc. because we should not need to be told.

It is what the blog-writer refers to as "the expected". He makes similar comparisons to saying you took a shower and toweled off or that you got up and made the bed, or brushed your teeth before work.

Because this is NORMAL behavior, most people would not include it in summarizing their day.
.

Hi Lisa ... yes I am in complete agreement ... she (the mom) is supplying details nobody asked for , or needed to know .... and you are right , that is the way a "guilty speaking" person might do it.

However , in defense of Jessica .... if her story is true ... those backward glances at him would have been her last memory of him .... and it would make sense to be constantly on her mind and end up being injected into her conversations.

It is like she is trying to convince herself , and reassure herself , that DeOrr actually remained at the campsite , and she was not negligent by going exploring.

Even if she is innocent of doing anything wrong , she will still have pangs of guilt as a parent who lost track of their child. Cant blame her for that. It is normal.

Anyway , just another possibility to consider . I try to look at all sides.
.

 

[Aeronomy]

I hope one of the items used to reinforce DeOrr's scent was his car seat. I say this because if DeOrr's blanket was used, how is anyone to know that blanket was really DeOrr's and not a replica? Odd how important it was for his parent's to let the public know the blanket wasn't a replica. Starting to wonder if those items specifically brought up by the parents ever came in contact with DeOrr.

Just trying to come up with a reason why there was no scent trail at the camp of DeOrr when he was seen there. Could it be the items provided by the parents to reinforce DeOrr's scent may not have even had DeOrr's scent on them to begin with?

 

[redheart]

I think Klein said on the radio show they are a team of 9 + Vilt previously all working on behalf of the family add in LE who know all the evidence...I just can't believe all these people could have it wrong.

Klein went on today he thinks and feels the sheriff has made it clear there will be charges, but they need to know what charges. I can understand that, who did what and who didn't but covered things up? Premeditated on one or both parties etc., what a nightmare.

Also on the tape today that there are a couple pieces of evidence just sent off to Quantico yesterday. Whaaat!?! Is someone talking? What could it be that they have just found to send away? Did they forget something? IDK

BBM

I have no idea if the same thing would apply in this case, but in another case I recently followed the lab was restricting how much evidence LE could send in to be tested. I thought that was pretty crazy!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/oland-trial-juror-discharged-saint-john-1.3256728

Police drove the seized brown jacket to the RCMP forensics lab in Halifax on Nov. 30, 2011, for analysis, said Smith. The jacket was returned eight months later, on July 30, 2012, he said.

Smith testified last Friday that the RCMP labs in Halifax and Fredericton had limited the number of exhibits the Saint John police could submit and that investigators had to wait for all of results to come back before sending any more.

 

[charminglane]

I hope one of the items used to reinforce DeOrr's scent was his car seat. I say this because if DeOrr's blanket was used, how is anyone to know that blanket was really DeOrr's and not a replica? Odd how important it was for his parent's to let the public know the blanket wasn't a replica. Starting to wonder if those items specifically brought up by the parents ever came in contact with DeOrr.

Just trying to come up with a reason why there was no scent trail at the camp of DeOrr when he was seen there. Could it be the items provided by the parents to reinforce DeOrr's scent may not have even had DeOrr's scent on them to begin with?

Out of the box.
I respect that.

 

[ClaireNC]

See, this is why the drugs theory makes sense to me even though there's no evidence for it that I know of. It could explain why they would cover up an accident, IMO.

I agree. I can't comprehend why a parent would cover up an accident. The only reason I can think of, maybe, is if they were doing something illegal when the accident happened. On the other hand, it was pointed out that Vernal working as a truck driver and Jessica in the health care industry, both would be subject to drug testing at work.