ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #18

[charminglane]

Of all the weeks to get the flu, at least the positive is that there is forward motion in justice for Doerr and I can read and listen here.
Thank you, everyone!

 

[ILOKAL]

IR never said that LE had told him not to speak. Nate said that.

Maybe someone should contact Nate (as has been done before) and ask him where he got that information or if he (once again) misspoke.

 

[pepelepolecat]

I agree, but what a poorly planned trip (with a child, no less). It sounds like it was either planned at the last minute, or else they really weren't planning on staying very long. To have to buy other food when they had just arrived implies, to me at least, that they did not have a sufficient amount of food for even one day.

I am of two minds on this.

When we go camping, we usually don't buy food and take it with us because then we'd need to have multiple coolers of ice to store. Instead, we wait until we get to the campsite and get it set up (camper camping), and THEN we drive into the nearby town, which is maybe 25 minutes or so, to get groceries. They go straight in the little camper fridge. It makes camping a lot easier. This is one reason the store trip never really pinged weird to me because it's just about exactly what we do. But you'd still take non-perishables along with you for several reasons (not the least of which is that toddlers have unpredictable appetites and no patience when hungry).

But the store trip wasn't initially about food but about feminine products, or so my impression was. So I'm not sure where the food comes in unless it was just a multi-purpose trip.

I feel like we're back to chasing our tails.

 

[kammiemc]

This case is irritating me. I Why is it that they can run to the media (People Magazine, a national media outlet, no less) for this type of attention but it's like pulling teeth to get them to do any media interviews that might actually HELP FIND DeOrr? I'm exasperated.

Maybe the Silver Dollar restaurant? If they arrived late, maybe the bar was opening but kitchen was closed?

 

[Beezneez]

Not being nitpicky (ok, so maybe a bit lol!). Even technical failure of oxygen supply? Would you camp up there with someone who might be dependent on it knowing you were a long way from help?

Well, there are a lot of factors that go into that. And I don't think you are being nitpicky at all! We are here to discuss, not quickly agree to one idea and then sit on our hands! Do we know they didn't have a backup O2 condenser? Also, how much oxygen was he on (Liters per minute)? If it was a low amount and he was typically able to maintain saturation above 80 without oxygen supplementation I wouldn't hesitate. Especially not if this was the "last trip to a favorite place" type of camping trip that it has been speculated as. It isn't as though his lungs could absorb absolutely no oxygen from the typical air, most people on oxygen just absorb less than is sustainable over a long period of time. Since Jessica worked as a CNA and the Gpa had the O2 equipment it would likely be a safe assumption that they also had a pulse oximeter, I'll link one below if unfamiliar. They are cheap, portable & very handy!
http://www.amazon.com/Concord-Basic...31&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=pulse+oximeter&psc=1

All things being considered, I would say that our level of consideration to these factors may be a bit more thoughtful than what was given by those on this trip.

 

[ILOKAL]

Several people saying they saw a human hair on a shovel? That is very, very strange... Makes me wonder if someone was desperately trying to imply that someone did something with that shovel.

If you saw a hair on the shovel and thought it was important, wouldn't you be very careful to make sure that it didn't blow away? And if you thought your kid had wandered off or been abducted, why on earth would you see a hair on a shovel and think it was important?

What makes you think it was the parents who said they saw a hair on the shovel? (Maybe I missed that in the interview) Didn't Bowerman say someone brought the shovel out from GGPA's rig?

 

[Deleted member 50844]

Maybe I missed it with so much information all at once, but as far as the statement from Vilt that the parents told him that LE advised against a reward, have we ever heard from the parents regarding if that's what they actually TOLD Vilt?

Truthfully, I haven't heard squat from the parents that clear up the red flags. I saw one interview that was done in the beginning, one interview of them on a couch with mom's parents, and one interview of them up searching, onsite. If you can point me to more I'd love to see them, as I am sure I MUST have missed the ones where they were out pleading repeatedly with the public to help locate their child.

I am so glad last night's interview addressed my question about the Sheriff not allowing national outreach and a reward. I know I hammered a lot on that yesterday and was told by some here that the Sheriff didn't want it. That doesn't sit well with me at all. Yes, I would LOVE to hear the parents' version of that. Because to me it is very telling. It wouldn't have cost them a dime and probably not much work involved to set it up on their part either. Especially as they were pushing the abduction scenario as the explanation. As hard as I try to believe in the parents, this revelation pretty much won't let me.
Now, if the parents come out and state that they did not squash the reward/exposure efforts, I would be swayed to take that off the side of my checklist of 'thinks parents are nefariously invloved'.
Yep, I am waiting for any clarity the parents might give to the many red flags in this case.
Meanwhile, I am hoping against hope that baby DeOrr is found alive. I know it's a longshot but until they find him not alive, or there is a confession about his death, I am hanging on hard to that HOPE. Hope is all we have to go on for now.

 

[desert-blue]

I am of two minds on this.

When we go camping, we usually don't buy food and take it with us because then we'd need to have multiple coolers of ice to store. Instead, we wait until we get to the campsite and get it set up (camper camping), and THEN we drive into the nearby town, which is maybe 25 minutes or so, to get groceries. They go straight in the little camper fridge. It makes camping a lot easier. This is one reason the store trip never really pinged weird to me because it's just about exactly what we do. But you'd still take non-perishables along with you for several reasons (not the least of which is that toddlers have unpredictable appetites and no patience when hungry).

But the store trip wasn't initially about food but about feminine products, or so my impression was. So I'm not sure where the food comes in unless it was just a multi-purpose trip.

I feel like we're back to chasing our tails.

I have gone camping like that too, where we've bought perishables and other supplies at the nearest town... however, we wouldn't plan a trip that way if we knew we were going to be arriving at 9:30 PM...

I think the trip to the store must have been multi-purpose, but it's interesting how JM made it about feminine products (to make it more urgent I guess? or to not raise red flags that they had little food?). Curious indeed (at least to me).

 

[Kairi'sMom]

Can someone answer a couple questions for me please?

Did Deorr's parents plan ahead of time to go with GGF and IR this camping trip planned or was it more of a last minute decision?
Are there any photographs of the camper?

I also have an observation that has been bugging me. Deorr's father, in an interview says something like, "Deorr was supposed to be a good boy and stay with great-grandpa". I don't recall if it's the same interview or another one, but he also said that they asked Deorr if he wanted to go with them or stay with great-grandpa and he said, "Great-grandpa".

So which was it? If the first statement is true, then this implies that one of the parents told Deorr to be a good boy and stay with great-grandpa (maybe he wasn't cooperating and didn't want to stay with ggp???). That is different than asking him if he wants to stay with great-grandpa and allowing him to make a decision (implying little Deorr was responsible enough to make that decision).

The first statement is more believable to me. The second statement just seems off. What do you all think?

In light of the timeline the Sheriff gave in this last WS interview, I find this piece of their story troubling. If Deorr was being "bad"....???

 

[Beezneez]

I agree, but what a poorly planned trip (with a child, no less). It sounds like it was either planned at the last minute, or else they really weren't planning on staying very long. To have to buy other food when they had just arrived implies, to me at least, that they did not have a sufficient amount of food for even one day.

I am a crazy list making type A planner when it comes to camping & I almost always forget something. Usually something obvious like feminine products, salt, contact solution, you know- the essentials. The next day trip to the store doesn't strike me as unprepared. I believe Browerman also mentioned (interview last night) that he felt they were adequately prepared to camp when he initially surveyed the campsite. Is there something I missed about that that is leading us back to the question of this being a real camping trip and not a facade story?

 

[desert-blue]

Maybe the Silver Dollar restaurant? If they arrived late, maybe the bar was opening but kitchen was closed?

I wondered that as well. But Penner didn't offer that information in the interview (the one on the picnic table). He stated that the only stop was for diesel... ugh

 

[ILOKAL]

I agree, but what a poorly planned trip (with a child, no less). It sounds like it was either planned at the last minute, or else they really weren't planning on staying very long. To have to buy other food when they had just arrived implies, to me at least, that they did not have a sufficient amount of food for even one day.

Bowerman said he was satisfied with what they had brought.

 

[TxJan1971]

RE: whether or not Isaac told anyone that LE asked him not to answer/talk to media.

(I realize this was discussed briefly last night and again this a.m. I couldn’t post what I had already started to compile because I chose instead to listen and then transcribe SB from last night. So, here’s the actual statements.

Note: I see ILOKAL just posted a good question that I was going to ask – has anyone reached out to Nate for his clarification and/or could they? (I’m leaving after this post and won’t be back till later)

Here's the actual statements:

KLEIN’s Reaction to Isaac’s Interview and his statement:
January 26, 2016
0:28
Klein (KIC) ““He gave us a couple of things we can follow-up on. There are a couple of things that we need to compare to the master timeline on this from all the witness statements. We do get concerned with Mr. Reinwand because, again, he’s not forthcoming. He’ll be glad to tell you what he wants you to know but he won’t tell you the details of what he wants you to know. I know for a fact law enforcement has not asked him to be quiet. They have not put any restrictions on him. Nobody has put any restrictions on him, so that’s a concerning statement for me.”
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/kunz-private-investigator-responds-to-reinwand-interview/

vs

Isaac’s interview with Nate Eaton
As you listen to Nate doing his introduction, you can hear him (and not IR) make the statement that Klein felt/inferred came from IR. (IMOO)

0:01
Nate Eaton:
I’m Nate Eaton with East Idaho News.com. A few days ago, one of our producers made contact with Isaac Reinwand. He’s the man who was camping with the Kunz family up in Leadore the day Deorr disappeared. Reinwand told us he wanted to share his story and speak publicly for the first time about what happened up on that mountain. So last night my producer, Stephan Rockefeller, and I sat down with Reinwand. Nothing was off limits.

0:25
…but there were topics that Reinwand’s attorney and law enforcement asked him not to speak about.

We respect that. And now, here’s that entire unedited interview with Isaac Reinwand

~~

Summary: The only comments IR made on camera were what he said his attorney told him not to answer. He never once mentioned LE.

EATON: Were you fishing? Were you downstream when you heard?

REINWAND: I’m not supposed to disclose any information. I’ve been asked not to. (He doesn’t say the police asked him not to).

EATON: We’re hearing from you for the first time. Is there a reason you wanted to be quiet?

REINWAND: It was mostly just because of how the social media was reacting and my attorney said it might be better not to say anything until they know exactly what’s going on with the case.


IR never said “on camera” that the police told him not to answer questions or say anything during the “on camera” interview.

However, we do not know whether IR or his attorney told Nate “off camera” that LE asked IR not to answer specific questions. We don’t know if Nate simply misspoke. We don’t know if Klein simply misunderstood and attributed something that Nate said to IR. After all, Klein never directly says that it was IR himself that said police told him not to answer certain question – he infers it. (IMOO)

 

[desert-blue]

I am a crazy list making type A planner when it comes to camping & I almost always forget something. Usually something obvious like feminine products, salt, contact solution, you know- the essentials. The next day trip to the store doesn't strike me as unprepared. I believe Browerman also mentioned (interview last night) that he felt they were adequately prepared to camp when he initially surveyed the campsite. Is there something I missed about that that is leading us back to the question of this being a real camping trip and not a facade story?

I'm just questioning why Bowerman said "they tried to buy food" - it's curious to me for a few reasons. I don't think the Friday trip to the store is strange at all.

 

[ILOKAL]

Agreed, I watched that interview the minute it was released, I refreshed that page 100 times waiting to hear it, and IR never said LE's told him not to answer questions.

At one point Reinwand stated he'd been asked not to discuss something. He didn't say by whom.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Someone needs to get on the blower to Nate for clarification, stat.

 

[LisaB]

Yeah that sure is strange, if IR really saw Deorr alive at 1PM on friday....wow.

However, IMO, maybe IR could be made to think he did. Otherwise, this is a much more calculated thing than I could have ever imagined.
Is it possible baby Deorr really walked away from GPP and then something happened and cover up ensued?

Why would JM and DK take a walk with IR, a guy they don't even really know?

BTW great job Bessie and Tricia. That was really, really, really good. My heart is hurting for that toddler. Good night all...I sure hope this comes to closure soon.

According to the interview posted yesterday, IR had caught some small fish in a pail and Deorr's parents asked him to show him where he found them.

 

[pepelepolecat]

A couple things from SB's interview struck me as interesting.
SB: "However, the first polygraph indicated that the parents were being less than truthful, and that concerned me, but you know I take polygraphs with a certain grain of salt so… I sent out their interviews to the FBI, their Behavioral Team. They examined them and found multiple inconsistencies, and so we asked them to re-polygraph, and they said they would, and the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th polygraphs, the same conclusion was made by the experts that they are being less than truthful. They know what happened and where Deorr is currently."

They took more than one or two polygraph tests. I'd be willing to bet that they asked them, "Did you hurt your son?" From this, it sounds like the only questions they failed were "Do you know what happened?" and "Do you know where he is?"

Also from SB: "I didn’t want them to think their whole polygraph was deceptive. It wasn’t. They passed portions of it, but the portions on whether they knew where Deorr was or knew what happened to him, they were not being…they were being less than truthful . So that’s why I changed it. I didn’t want them to think…normally you think when someone is deceptive everything they told you is a lie but that’s not the case."

He's really seeming to point towards something by emphasizing exactly which questions they failed on. He's also saying it's possibly "foul play," which makes my heart hurt. I've had a bad vibe from this right from the start, but I still hoped ...

TG: " Deorr couldn’t ask for a better person to be on his side and looking for him. So you’re doing a fantastic job!"

I 100 percent agree. I think SB has been an excellent voice for DeOrr.

 

[ILOKAL]

Can someone answer a couple questions for me please?

Did Deorr's parents plan ahead of time to go with GGF and IR this camping trip planned or was it more of a last minute decision?
Are there any photographs of the camper?

I also have an observation that has been bugging me. Deorr's father, in an interview says something like, "Deorr was supposed to be a good boy and stay with great-grandpa". I don't recall if it's the same interview or another one, but he also said that they asked Deorr if he wanted to go with them or stay with great-grandpa and he said, "Great-grandpa".

So which was it? If the first statement is true, then this implies that one of the parents told Deorr to be a good boy and stay with great-grandpa (maybe he wasn't cooperating and didn't want to stay with ggp???). That is different than asking him if he wants to stay with great-grandpa and allowing him to make a decision (implying little Deorr was responsible enough to make that decision).

The first statement is more believable to me. The second statement just seems off. What do you all think?

In light of the timeline the Sheriff gave in this last WS interview, I find this piece of their story troubling. If Deorr was being "bad"....???

I just don't see a problem. To me, they ask little DeOrr if he wants to go with them or if he wants to stay with GGPA. DeOrr says, "GGPA". Parents say okay, now be a good boy with GGPA by the fire.

Where's the problem?

 

[CanadianWells]

Can someone answer a couple questions for me please?

Did Deorr's parents plan ahead of time to go with GGF and IR this camping trip planned or was it more of a last minute decision?
Are there any photographs of the camper?

I also have an observation that has been bugging me. Deorr's father, in an interview says something like, "Deorr was supposed to be a good boy and stay with great-grandpa". I don't recall if it's the same interview or another one, but he also said that they asked Deorr if he wanted to go with them or stay with great-grandpa and he said, "Great-grandpa".

So which was it? If the first statement is true, then this implies that one of the parents told Deorr to be a good boy and stay with great-grandpa (maybe he wasn't cooperating and didn't want to stay with ggp???). That is different than asking him if he wants to stay with great-grandpa and allowing him to make a decision (implying little Deorr was responsible enough to make that decision).

The first statement is more believable to me. The second statement just seems off. What do you all think?

In light of the timeline the Sheriff gave in this last WS interview, I find this piece of their story troubling. If Deorr was being "bad"....???

his statement about being good with ggp was "he was going to be good with ggp by the fire" and in the context of the rest of what he said, it came off to me more like "he was ok there," as in "no, I don't need cream I'm good with black coffee." Of course that's just moo, based on my own speech patterns and experience.