ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #18

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  • #381
I think there is too much being read into the "little man" stuff. If this is a nickname they used, they may have used that more than his real name. I do the same thing. It doesn't make me a bad parent.

Of course it doesn't make you a bad parent. I use terms of endearment and little nicknames with my children. I'd like to believe that if I had ever been in DKsr and JM's shoes and I believe my child was abducted that I would've wanted his name out there. His real name. And his photo. That way, if anyone spotted him, they'd say, "hey, isn't that Kunz kid we saw on the news?" versus, is that Lil Man? Just my two cents.

Whether the use of his nickname is distancing behavior, or the parents trying to make him more personal to others, I don't know. I'm not well versed in that type of thing.
 
  • #382
I am new to this website, but have been following this case since the beginning because it just blows me away when people "vanish". I have recently listened to and read all of the interviews with LE, POIs, PIs, etc. and read much of the last three threads. My take on all of this is the following. Please forgive me if I'm repeating someone or being redundant. All of this is just my opinion.

After hearing JM's 911 call, as a mother I was taken aback by her calm demeanor. I would've been hysterical! She seemed a little "breathy" but not very upset.

The timeline is very weird. I don't find it odd that they went to the store as we always do that. I do find it interesting that the baby was described as filthy and bawling, which could indicate he was fussy and that could have possibly led to something happening on the way back to camp. I know when a toddler scream for something and u give it to them, like French fries or candy, and you are trying to appease them, it can be very frustrating when they still continue to whine and cry. Perhaps if the parents were doing drugs, of the upper/meth variety and had little or no sleep, their tempers could have been very short and explosive. But I still can't understand how they could have plotted and covered something like getting rid of his body so quickly and calmly, especially without crying and screaming which would've alerted IR and GGP that something was wrong. Then again, we haven't, IIRC, heard about their DEMEANOR when returning from the store or if they were arguing/frantic/etc. it may be that the "axillary issues" Klein has referred to are regarding what IR and GGP observed about their behavior. Also, I will say that when I rewatched the original JM and DK interview where they are at the conference table, after hearing them announced as suspects, I found their behavior very odd. #1 what patent wouldn't have cried?!?! Again, I would've been near death from grief. Also her facial expressions were very bizarre. She constantly looked back and forth between DK d the interviewer as if she was thinking "wth are u about to say exactly" and "is this guy buying it"? JMO of course. Also I thought the casual way she kept swinging her foot was bizarre. Everything about her facial expressions and body language seemed too casual given her baby was gone. It was also odd that DK made such a point of praising the SAR so early in the interview, even pointing out about that can they spotted. He repeated that he did not believe the baby was on the mountain as if to direct LE and SAR away from there. Also, why would u spend so much time praising them and detailing their efforts and not begging and pleading for tips and/or the return of your son? If my child was missing I would be begging LE and SAR to NOT stop searching the mountain. It was very fishy, IMO. Last point!! It was strange that they clarified the rumor about the store because they were in fact there. Makes sense that if you are just cranking out lies that you would overemphasize the one bit of truth that is verifiable. MOO.
 
  • #383
I don't "automatically" think that....I think any info about their family interactions would be useful to know.

If Klein is right there will be charges filed and if there is a trial, yes any interactions on rough discipline as an example would be back-up, just as many months ago we heard about the drone flying for a possible trial. Seems they want to look & evaluate everything as they should.
 
  • #384
Just to clarify, IR did not say in his interview that he saw DeOrr AFTER the store, it was she Sheriff who said that. IR just said he had seen him but didn't specify when.
That's correct. But I do beleive the sheriff over IR.
 
  • #385
January 29th, 2016:

Bowerman: We’ve asked the public to come forward. I had four or five telephone calls this morning from individuals who either know Mom and Dad and the child and have seen them either interact in the past or they’ve overheard something or they think they can provide information.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/sheriff-i-just-pray-little-deorr-will-be-found/

That says a lot, imo. Especially combined with what he said last night and how sincere he was. When he was asking people to keep calling in with tips I so wished I could do something to help.

I wonder if there was someone else at the store who overheard something. That could be someone who came forward.
 
  • #386
One more thing I forgot. I find it really, really interesting that LE keeps saying IR is "the most consistent" not the most truthful. It could be he is just the most consistent with his lies. JMO and more conjecture than anything else. I just find that choice of words curious.
 
  • #387
BBM
I'm wondering why anyone would automatically think that "individuals who either know Mom and Dad and the child and have seen them either interact in the past or they’ve overheard something or they think they can provide information" means that indicates possible child abuse. They could have been calls from people stating that they were wonderful parents and had a whole world of love for Deorr.

Well, I read that after what Bowerman said yesterday and I read in between the lines... I get the impression they've had some calls saying that V and J are *not* wonderful parents. JMO.

Yesterday:

TG: You have asked for people who may have witnessed interactions between the parents and Deorr to come forward. Is there any indication that Deorr was neglected or abused prior to this camping trip?

05:42
SB: You know, that’s a part of investigation I’m…I’m not willing to talk about at this point. I know that we’re getting tips every day, people that think there’s something that’s usually small but they think it’s important for our office to know, and we’re following up on those leads as fast as we can, but they’re coming in quite frequently, so uh, you know I’d rather not comment on any…anything of that nature.

Today:

Bowerman: We’ve asked the public to come forward. I had four or five telephone calls this morning from individuals who either know Mom and Dad and the child and have seen them either interact in the past or they’ve overheard something or they think they can provide information.

I suppose all these calls could be saying they're wonderful parents, but personally I doubt it.
 
  • #388
Of course it doesn't make you a bad parent. I use terms of endearment and little nicknames with my children. I'd like to believe that if I had ever been in DKsr and JM's shoes and I believe my child was abducted that I would've wanted his name out there. His real name. And his photo. That way, if anyone spotted him, they'd say, "hey, isn't that Kunz kid we saw on the news?" versus, is that Lil Man? Just my two cents.

Whether the use of his nickname is distancing behavior, or the parents trying to make him more personal to others, I don't know. I'm not well versed in that type of thing.

You just reminded me - fairly recently the grandmother gave an interview where she said if you think you see Deorr, ask him his name because ehe knows his name and he will tell you. I wondered why they didn't put that out months before??

Of.course I'm not judging them just for having a nickname for their kid, but it's everything together, all the things that they've said or done that make no sense... All added together, it makes me feel certain that they know more than they are letting on.
 
  • #389
Well, I read that after what Bowerman said yesterday and I read in between the lines... I get the impression they've had some calls saying that V and J are *not* wonderful parents. JMO.

Yesterday:



Today:


I suppose all these calls could be saying they're wonderful parents, but personally I doubt it.

I don't think he's asking for people to call and say they were wonderful parents and it's not something they could follow up on. A million people could see someone be nice to their child but how useful is that information and how would the sheriff investigate?
 
  • #390
One more thing I forgot. I find it really, really interesting that LE keeps saying IR is "the most consistent" not the most truthful. It could be he is just the most consistent with his lies. JMO and more conjecture than anything else. I just find that choice of words curious.

I have said it before, and I will say it again, I think people give way too much credit to LE. Folks here seem to assume that they plan out every word that they use or that every statement must mean something. I don't think that is the case at all, especially with smaller, local agencies. These guys do not have specialized training in communication and they make mistakes all the time.
 
  • #391
One more thing I forgot. I find it really, really interesting that LE keeps saying IR is "the most consistent" not the most truthful. It could be he is just the most consistent with his lies. JMO and more conjecture than anything else. I just find that choice of words curious.

IMO
Lies Change!
The truth usually remains the same.

So I'm thinking IR is telling the truth!
 
  • #392
That says a lot, imo. Especially combined with what he said last night and how sincere he was. When he was asking people to keep calling in with tips I so wished I could do something to help.

I wonder if there was someone else at the store who overheard something. That could be someone who came forward.

I thought that too... Did anyone hear them arguing at the store? Shouting at DeOrr? *Was* he filthy and bawling at the store? It seems like a strange thing for them to come up with if he wasn't.

Plus, JMO but I got the impression that the tips are at least somewhat credible ones, not just from - for example - backwards people trying to make trouble. I don't think he's have mentioned them if they weren't.

I wonder if the family had a CPS history at all.
 
  • #393
This is something I always thought was weird. DeOrr was going to stay with GGP and take his nap, but JM and DK went back after 50 yards/10 minutes because DK saw a minnow he thought DeOrr would want to see. First of all - it took them 10 minutes to walk 50 yards? Second - DeOrr was supposed to be napping why would they go back for him so quickly?

I don't think IR would bother catching minnows.
Except to use as bait when he went fishing maybe? And Vernal might then have asked to see where he found them, so he could show Deorr.

Sent from my Studio 6.0 LTE using Tapatalk
 
  • #394
  • #395
I have said it before, and I will say it again, I think people give way too much credit to LE. Folks here seem to assume that they plan out every word that they use or that every statement must mean something. I don't think that is the case at all, especially with smaller, local agencies. These guys do not have specialized training in communication and they make mistakes all the time.
I don't necessarily agree... They made the change to "less than truthful" with regard to DK and JM. I think they're being fairly crafty if you ask me.
 
  • #396
Lots of people were up in arms about POI IR not talking until he talked. In all these what seems like millions of threads I don't recall one comment about POI GGP not talking. Just an observation. I don't mean to start an uproar on why or why not GGP should or shouldn't talk. IR was called out on possibly being intellectually diminished. He talked. From what I've read, GGP also suffers from dimished capacity. That's all I'm saying. Again, just an observation that it seems IR can't win for losing.
 
  • #397
I think they may have already disposed of DeOrr before they went to the camp and possibly had a teddy bear or something covered up, and passed it off as DeOrr sleeping. That could be why IR said that he saw him, but in reality only saw something covered up.

I got behind on reading all the posts, so if this has already been hashed around, please ignore.
 
  • #398
Except to use as bait when he went fishing maybe? And Vernal might then have asked to see where he found them, so he could show Deorr.

Sent from my Studio 6.0 LTE using Tapatalk

He didn't mention asking him where he found them. The way he told the story he and JM were exploring, happened upon the minnows and went back to get DeOrr.
 
  • #399
Eaton: But we do know DeOrr was up there?

Bowerman: I’m fairly confident DeOrr was there. I can’t find anybody that says they’re 100 percent positive he was there, but I feel fairly confident he was there at one time.



Prior to these last few interviews with SB, it was my opinion that whatever happened to DeOrr happened Thursday night/Friday morning. These statements about how no one (including IR, apparently) can say with 100% confidence that they saw DeOrr are really eating at me and causing me to question whether DeOrr was ever there.... I just cannot understand how IR doesn't know for sure if he saw DeOrr or not. Does he not have one single memory of something that DeOrr did or something that DeOrr said? Did he hear DeOrr cry? Did he see DeOrr eat breakfast? Did he see DeOrr sitting on GGPA's lap? Did DeOrr want to go fishing? I just don't understand how IR could be on the camping trip and NOT know for sure if he saw DeOrr. I can understand him not remembering WHEN he last saw DeOrr but not IF he saw DeOrr.

There still seems to be no answer to the question of when someone, other than the POIs, last saw DeOrr. Even if they have to go back to July 8th or July 7th, why is that information still unknown (at least to us)?

I am not one of those that has ever been in the camp of "he was never there," but I find myself leaning in that direction right now. I am wondering if GGPA and IR had been planning to go on the trip, but that DK and JM's decision to go was more "last minute," perhaps seeing an opportunity to explain DeOrr's disappearance. I don't understand how they pulled it all off without IR and GGPA not noticing that DeOrr wasn't really there, but from the sounds of things, it could have been possible because IR can't say for sure if he saw DeOrr.

I am so confused. All speculation and MOO.
 
  • #400
Lots of people were up in arms about POI IR not talking until he talked. In all these what seems like millions of threads I don't recall one comment about POI GGP not talking. Just an observation. I don't mean to start an uproar on why or why not GGP should or shouldn't talk. IR was called out on possibly being intellectually diminished. He talked. From what I've read, GGP also suffers from dimished capacity. That's all I'm saying. Again, just an observation that it seems IR can't win for losing.

I did post about this a few pages back, actually. Not even just to hear his story, but to get a better picture of who he is, etc.
I see things that seem conflicting to me about how capable he is. Some things I see paint a picture of a feeble, fragile old man. Then I see that he drove his truck and camping rig all the way up there. Surely someone with dementia and failing memory wouldn't be trusted to do that. I guess it puzzles me because so many were questioning how wise it was to leave an active two year old in the care of this old man. Yet if he was with it enough to be hauling that camper up there he should be capable of watching the baby so close to the parents for a short time.
Which brings me to this thought: if he is in poor mental health that he can't remember things and therefore was expected to not do well on the polygraph then why in the world was he allowed to be driving? And towing a camper at that? Yikes!
 
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