ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #19

[Deleted member 102539]

What do we know without assumptions?
1. Family went camping on Thursday night
2. DK/JM went to the store Friday
3. DK/JM called to report Deorr missing
4. There is no evidence that Deorr was abducted (stranger, animal or otherwise)
5. There is no evidence that Deorr is located within the 3 mile search radius
6. According to Sheriff the camping set up looked like a legit camping set up
7. There is evidence to indicate the parents are not telling the truth in regards to their knowledge of their sons location
8. There is evidence to indicate criminal charges will be filed
9. The use of drones for the purpose of evidence gathering early in the search for Deorr
10. Law enforcement is striking a balance between serving the public interest (in speaking out about parents status and fundraising inquiries) while appearing to maintain a cooperative relationship with those on the trip.

These are just my observations- correct them, add to them, I certainly don't think I have a comprehensive list going here.

Parents prevent the offer of a reward.
Parents don't participate in the re-enactment and don't like TV-involvement.
PI quits his job because of untruthfulness of his clients.

 

[KYPastTracker]

http://www.rexburgstandardjournal.c...cle_dd9143ce-7cf7-11e5-a2be-b732585d12e4.html

I Found another photo showing the rock by the table.

 

[4senthia]

In the initial interview vDK kept saying "Snake River" rescue I believe? Most of us thought that was just nervousness and the fact that the Snake River runs by their hometown.
I have always suspected that's where DeOrr may actually be.
Freudian Slip anyone?
jmo
ETA: if IR never saw this little toddler before, then we only have GGP to "prove" DeOrr was even there. I realize IR saw a toddler but I don't know if it was DeOrr. Wasn't there at least one other person there before LE arrived at the campsite? We don't even know if there might have been more than one. Or if that toddler actually was switched off after the trip to the store.
I know it sounds crazy, but this entire case is, IMO.

 

[Rayemonde]

I Found another photo showing the rock by the table.

Ah, well done! So the rock *is* next to the picnic table. So those two stories don't contradict each other, at least.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

It could be just that the rock is in the campground and the campground is where he was last seen.

OMG, so many rocks there and steep embankments ...!!

 

[Donjeta]

What could have been in dad's 911 call that made LE decide not to release it, I wonder? Has this already been covered?

Maybe some inconsistency with the mom's call or the other stories that would have been obvious to all?

 

[Sillybilly]

Maybe some inconsistency with the mom's call or the other stories that would have been obvious to all?

The recording starts with the time of 14:28:04, and at 1:56 into the call, you can hear someone in the background (I believe at the detachment) say "we're working on it". Then at 2:23 into the call you hear a male voice fairly loudly say "Vernal".

I get the impression the "we're working on it" was being said by LE to Vernal, because at 2:23 a loud male voice saying "Vernal" obviously has been speaking with Vernal for at least a few seconds to already know his name.

Is 1 minute 56 seconds (or less, depending on time of VDK's call) enough time for someone to have gone 1/2 mile down the road?

 

[Donjeta]

The recording starts with the time of 14:28:04, and at 1:56 into the call, you can hear someone in the background (I believe at the detachment) say "we're working on it". Then at 2:23 into the call you hear a male voice fairly loudly say "Vernal".

I get the impression the "we're working on it" was being said by LE to Vernal, because at 2:23 a loud male voice saying "Vernal" obviously has been speaking with Vernal for at least a few seconds to already know his name.

Is 1 minute 56 seconds (or less, depending on time of VDK's call) enough time for someone to have gone 1/2 mile down the road?

It could be more if the mom's call started a bit after he left. If mom was talking with 911 already there'd be no reason for him to leave looking for a signal. (Assuming that's why he left.)

 

[desert-blue]

In the initial interview vDK kept saying "Snake River" rescue I believe? Most of us thought that was just nervousness and the fact that the Snake River runs by their hometown.
I have always suspected that's where DeOrr may actually be.
Freudian Slip anyone?
jmo
ETA: if IR never saw this little toddler before, then we only have GGP to "prove" DeOrr was even there. I realize IR saw a toddler but I don't know if it was DeOrr. Wasn't there at least one other person there before LE arrived at the campsite? We don't even know if there might have been more than one. Or if that toddler actually was switched off after the trip to the store.
I know it sounds crazy, but this entire case is, IMO.

I have wondered about the Snake River as well.... the first 20 miles or so of the trip outside of Idaho Falls go right along the Snake River (I-15).

 

[Mickshawn]

In the initial interview vDK kept saying "Snake River" rescue I believe? Most of us thought that was just nervousness and the fact that the Snake River runs by their hometown.
I have always suspected that's where DeOrr may actually be.
Freudian Slip anyone?
jmo
ETA: if IR never saw this little toddler before, then we only have GGP to "prove" DeOrr was even there. I realize IR saw a toddler but I don't know if it was DeOrr. Wasn't there at least one other person there before LE arrived at the campsite? We don't even know if there might have been more than one. Or if that toddler actually was switched off after the trip to the store.
I know it sounds crazy, but this entire case is, IMO.

The 2nd half of your post that I BOLDED is VERY VERY interesting...and the filthy bawling baby at 6 p.m. on THURSDAY could have been DeOrr with somebody else. He could have been switched with another toddler BEFORE the store trip. Then the switched toddler's mom could have arrived before LE, unless she was already there on Th. night....Boy, is my brain going off on tangents.

 

[Beezneez]

It could be more if the mom's call started a bit after he left. If mom was talking with 911 already there'd be no reason for him to leave looking for a signal. (Assuming that's why he left.)

I am trying to imagine this- baby missing, parents decide to call 911, mom watches dad drive off & does... What... before she realizes that she also has a phone & can try to call too? There might be time for the 3rd call there- maybe it dropped & she called again? I feel like LE has been vague about Vernals call and the 3rd call.

 

[pepelepolecat]

The recording starts with the time of 14:28:04, and at 1:56 into the call, you can hear someone in the background (I believe at the detachment) say "we're working on it". Then at 2:23 into the call you hear a male voice fairly loudly say "Vernal".

I get the impression the "we're working on it" was being said by LE to Vernal, because at 2:23 a loud male voice saying "Vernal" obviously has been speaking with Vernal for at least a few seconds to already know his name.

Is 1 minute 56 seconds (or less, depending on time of VDK's call) enough time for someone to have gone 1/2 mile down the road?

About 2 minutes would be enough time to get 1/2 a mile in a vehicle traveling at a decent clip. Given the nature of the road, I'd think he'd be going about 15, maybe 20 mph, which would put him about two minutes, more or less. But why the rush? They'd already been looking ~ an hour, so why would you suddenly tear down to your truck and haul up the road?

I actually think I'd be more likely to walk up the road trying to get a signal so that I could better look on either side of the road (and avoid hitting/running over my child in my panic). And one can walk a half mile in about 6 to 10 minutes, depending on their speed and whether or not they are scanning their surroundings for a little lost toddler. At that point, mom's call would be done, one would think.

moo, jmo

 

[KYPastTracker]

There were several last places he was seen, iirc.

1. The big rock
2. In the dirt playing with his toy truck/s
3. Heading towards the embankment
4. With ggpa by the fire

Did I miss any of them?

Maybe one of us needs to create a timeline that includes all the various versions of the story. Maybe then we could finally be able to sort the wheat/truth from the chaff/red herrings.

all moo and jmo

well, JMO, but I think technically that 1 and 2 could be possibly considered the same as there appears to be a lot of loose dirt next to the big rock by the picnic table that he could have been playing in with his toy trucks. Just MOO.

 

[Unsolved]

I just rewatched the video and it looks like at 3 20 minutes Mom does something with her cell phone without checking it. Did it ring? I didn't hear it but I would have looked at it. It could have been the call or text that little DeOrr was found.

I rewatched and saw that too. I didn't hear a ring, so it was probably on vibrate. But if you had a missing child wouldn't you check it ASAP?

While watching I was also reminded of something we discussed here in the beginning, but I don't know if it was ever mentioned later. At about the 5:50 mark a reporter asks them something like "Have you told them about the "EMT bag" "That needs to be addressed".

Sorry I'm out of the loop, but did anything ever come of that?

[video=youtube;mwM1oG3z358]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwM1oG3z358[/video]

 

[katydid23]

It could be just that the rock is in the campground and the campground is where he was last seen.

But if you are watching a 2 yr old that goes missing, saying he was last seen 'in the campground' is not very specific.

 

[Rayemonde]

What, they switched DeOrr with another toddler? :waitasec:
that doesn't make sense.

 

[katydid23]

I rewatched and saw that too. I didn't hear a ring, so it was probably on vibrate. But if you had a missing child wouldn't you check it ASAP?

While watching I was also reminded of something we discussed here in the beginning, but I don't know if it was ever mentioned later. At about the 5:50 mark a reporter asks them something like "Have you told them about the "EMT bag" "That needs to be addressed".

Sorry I'm out of the loop, but did anything ever come of that?

[video=youtube;mwM1oG3z358]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwM1oG3z358[/video]

I am not really sure how much we are allowed to say about that. At one time, Bessie allowed us to summarize what was said by the grandmother. Apparently, one of the searchers had an EMT bag stolen from their vehicle during the initial searches for DeORR. No one ever found out who stole it, AFAIK.

 

[Rayemonde]

About 2 minutes would be enough time to get 1/2 a mile in a vehicle traveling at a decent clip. Given the nature of the road, I'd think he'd be going about 15, maybe 20 mph, which would put him about two minutes, more or less. But why the rush? They'd already been looking ~ an hour, so why would you suddenly tear down to your truck and haul up the road?

I actually think I'd be more likely to walk up the road trying to get a signal so that I could better look on either side of the road (and avoid hitting/running over my child in my panic). And one can walk a half mile in about 6 to 10 minutes, depending on their speed and whether or not they are scanning their surroundings for a little lost toddler. At that point, mom's call would be done, one would think.

moo, jmo

I watched the first interview again, btw, and they both said it was 20 minutes that they looked for DeOrr before calling 911, not an hour.

 

[desert-blue]

I am trying to imagine this- baby missing, parents decide to call 911, mom watches dad drive off & does... What... before she realizes that she also has a phone & can try to call too? There might be time for the 3rd call there- maybe it dropped & she called again? I feel like LE has been vague about Vernals call and the 3rd call.

I do think it's very odd that DK's call wasn't released early on, as JM's was. It could be that DK's call is very short and of little consequence, or it could be that he said something that would have raised red flags if it had been released. It seems like if it was the former, that LE would have just released it like they did JM's - no harm in allowing the public to hear it if there's nothing suspicious about it. That makes me think that it's the latter and maybe he said something or there is something heard in the background or something that is not quite right. MOO.

 

[Inthedetails]

Just listened to JM's phone call. Man, she is one calm mama. I felt like screaming to the operator, "Come now! Come now! Are the police on their way yet?! Find the baby! He's lost!" and I know it's months too late to scream that. Of course, it doesn't do any good to scream on the phone with 911, but I found it very hard to listen to her wait to be asked to give information and to calmly spell his name over and over.

I'm still sitting on the fence, but it sure isn't comfortable seating.