ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #19

[Pretty Go Pale]

My mind is going to some really bad places..really bad scenarios. where there may have been a 'need' for a cover-up.

scenario 1...GGP is chopping wood, and DeOrr runs in the way, too late to stop the ax from falling.

scenario 2- someone is angry and throws the ax, or throws it down, and it fatally strikes DeOrr.

scenario 3-Everyone is drunk or passed out on some intoxicant..perhaps at the camp, or even down by the creek if DeOrr is asleep and 'safe'. DeOrr falls into the fire and is fatally burned before anyone notices or sees him. Or if they are deeply asleep and/or passed out, they don't know til they wake up in the morning.

I can't get these images out of my brain, and I am sure there are more ready to follow..

I don't think any of those scenarios are likely at all. Any of the 3 scenarios would have left behind some serious forensic evidence, and the cadaver dogs would have gone nuts.

 

[ILOKAL]

Although Vilt states the parents turned down his offer for a reward, this says otherwise and is just a few days prior to his 9-15-15 letter to the parents:

http://www.localnews8.com/news/10000-reward-offered-for-leads-in-missing-toddler-case/35229162

 

[Rayemonde]

Although Vilt states the parents turned down his offer for a reward, this says otherwise and is just a few days prior to his 9-15-15 letter to the parents:

http://www.localnews8.com/news/10000-reward-offered-for-leads-in-missing-toddler-case/35229162

Where does that say otherwise? I don't see any direct quotes from the parents thanking Vilt for the reward or begging witnesses to come forward or anything.

Plus, tbh, I had assumed that they went along with the reward at first until they realised Vilt was determined to get publicity as well, then they changed their minds.

The parents could still offer a reward now, if they wanted to. VD could have put his money towards a reward instead of a lawyer. And they still have a quite a lot of die-hard supporters, so even if they didn't want to us any of their own money for a reward I think if they begged their supporters for donations they would pour in.

They still don't want a reward, and they still don't want any publicity. JMO.

 

[SCHMAE]

Find DeOrr! lease:

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

I think Klein is trying to win a popularity contest to gain business. I think he's picking and choosing answers and statements to get everyone roped in and speculating and questioning things. Look at what he's done for speculation today. He's caused all the nitwits (his word not mine!) to speculate on everything and then comes back and chastises everyone for speculating and starting rumors. I certainly don't blame IR's lawyer for keeping IR away from him.

I share this sentiment, Hoosier952. Klein has long been in the public eye; it has been interesting reading up on him.

 

[leep]

I am thinking after the trip to the Silver Dollar Bar on Thursday July 9th something nefarious happened. Otherwise, WHY leave this information out completely? This is most certainly in the less then truthful category. JMO

Whatever happened it must of occurred Thursday OR before the complete removal of what they did Thursday from there account in the first interview for over a month was it? , smacks of the parents need to lie and hide whatever they did. IMO

 

[wondering25]

Explain something ... I thought a PI hired by the family works to prove their innocence. Why is kein coming forth with things that incriminate the family? This makes no sense to me.

 

[Inthedetails]

Okay, I have figured out a way that rambling interview with the parents makes some sense.

I am for the moment assuming something happened to little Deorr either the morning of the day he went missing or before. In that case, the parents had time to hide him and come up with the story of how he went "missing."

Instead of thinking of the big picture, the story they agreed to tell focused ONLY on the moments of his "disappearance." They didn't think to have a backstory, and so things get muffled and confused when they get out of their tight timeframe. They can't answer what they had for breakfast because they didn't write that into their script of what to say about the disappearance, for example.

They focused on the specific time of the 911 calls and the hour before the calls because that's all they wanted (or assumed) LE would ask about. They are lost with any other questions - and that might be why their stories don't match and they are inconsistent with what they are telling LE. They didn't plan beyond the "disappearace" time of 1:30'ish-2:36.

But parents of missing kids don't tell a story about the disappearance, they PLEAD for the child to be found. They plead, plead, plead.

They don't say, "Great job with the helicopter" when the child is still missing. In that interview, Vernal seems to be in storytelling mode, not providing any information that will actually help find the child.

JMO, speculating, opinions subject to change.

 

[ILOKAL]

Explain something ... I thought a PI hired by the family works to prove their innocence. Why is kein coming forth with things that incriminate the family? This makes no sense to me.

When Klein gave his report and subsequent interviews, he seemed to be pointing the finger (although not directly) at Reinwand. Then when Bowerman jumped the gun with HIS announcement, it kind of diminished Klein's thunder. Klein's brief statement following Bowerman's announcement didn't say much and wasn't particularly clear regarding HIS opinion.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Explain something ... I thought a PI hired by the family works to prove their innocence. Why is kein coming forth with things that incriminate the family? This makes no sense to me.

I would hope any PI works to find the truth. I'm not sure of the make up of the contract or if any family member signed it?

 

[Beezneez]

I'm finally caught up on reading! Goodness, what happened to this baby? I'm sure this is torturing LE- knowing this boy's parents are holding out & still having to maintain communication with them. I'd have let my patience for this long ago.

 

[ILOKAL]

IMO, the timeframe has somewhat changed with the 2:22 first 911 call and the 1:30 last seen time, which gives about 20 minutes to and from the creek and 20 minutes searching before the first 911 call was made.

 

[giagreen]

Yes the boots were the main reason i didn't believe he just wandered off they would've been found without a doubt.

Sure seems odd the parents wouldn't leave the boots at the campsite or say anything about them being to big at all. Reminds me of little Jaryds's case where his dad insisted his shoes would of fallen off if he was actually taken by a wild animal or wondered off yet they didn't fall off and he was found three years later with his shoes nearby. Except in DeOrr's case it's the public that is insisting the boots would of fallen off.
Idk guess I have no opinion on the boots. My son has fat wide feet and can keep a pair of bigger boots on.

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[white rabbit]

IMO great post, inthedetails.

 

[ModernAudrey]

I can't think of any logical reason for a child to be wearing shoes that are three sizes too big. That's really big! They would have felt like clown shoes to him. How would they even stay on for a normal day, much less playing in the woods or near a rushing creek?

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[ILOKAL]

Sure seems odd the parents wouldn't leave the boots at the campsite or say anything about them being to big at all. Reminds me of little Jaryds's case where his dad insisted his shoes would of fallen off if he was actually taken by a wild animal or wondered off yet they didn't fall off and he was found three years later with his shoes nearby. Except in DeOrr's case it's the public that is insisting the boots would of fallen off.
Idk guess I have no opinion on the boots. My son has fat wide feet and can keep a pair of bigger boots on.

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Didn't Klein first say DeOrr wore Size 5 and the boots were Size 7? Then he said the boots were three sizes too big. It could very well be and would make sense that DeOrr was outgrowing the Size 5 and actually measured a Size 6 when the boots were bought. The parents may have bought them in a Size 7 instead of a Size 6 to get more wear out of them. I know that's what I do if buying shoes/boots that may not be worn very often unlike the everyday shoes. IMO

 

[desert-blue]

Explain something ... I thought a PI hired by the family works to prove their innocence. Why is kein coming forth with things that incriminate the family? This makes no sense to me.

Klein was paid 20K with donations from the public to find DeOrr. A family member (not DK or JM) signed the contract. It is a bit of an odd arrangement, but since the parents have always maintained their innocence, it would have seemed suspicious for the family to have turned down hiring a PI who is known for finding missing children, especially when it cost them nothing. Klein himself has stated that his real client is DeOrr.

ETA: I had my doubts about Klein when he was first hired - I thought, like you, that he might side with the family, regardless of his findings. However, it seems that he has independently come to the same conclusion as LE: that the parents know what happened. He may have an agenda and an ego, but I do feel that he is working hard to find answers to explain what happened to DeOrr, and I respect that.

 

[ClaireNC]

Didn't Klein first say DeOrr wore Size 5 and the boots were Size 7? Then he said the boots were three sizes too big. It could very well be and would make sense that DeOrr was outgrowing the Size 5 and actually measured a Size 6 when the boots were bought. The parents may have bought them in a Size 7 instead of a Size 6 to get more wear out of them. I know that's what I do if buying shoes/boots that may not be worn very often unlike the everyday shoes. IMO

They might have been his older half-brother's boots and little Deorr insisted on wearing them because he thought they were "cool" in his little 2 1/2 year old brain. I remember my son being very opinionated about what he wore when he was that age. Some parents "choose their battles" and what a 2 year old chooses to wear is not one of the things they bother to fight about. IMO

ETA: I don't remember Klein saying anything about shoe size. Do you have a link for that?

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Explain something ... I thought a PI hired by the family works to prove their innocence. Why is kein coming forth with things that incriminate the family? This makes no sense to me.

When Klein first working for them, he was helping to promote the abductor theory. I think that was the intention of why he was hired. I don't think the family thought that he would be able to find evidence against them. They may have been delusional. I wouldn't be surprised if both the media reporters and LE have been very sympathetic up into recently so the family starts to think they've done a really good job with covering it up. TBH, I think if they had more money, they could get someone (maybe not necessarily Klein) to turn their head the other way and continue promoting the intruder theory.

 

[ClaireNC]

Where does that say otherwise? I don't see any direct quotes from the parents thanking Vilt for the reward or begging witnesses to come forward or anything.

Plus, tbh, I had assumed that they went along with the reward at first until they realised Vilt was determined to get publicity as well, then they changed their minds.

The parents could still offer a reward now, if they wanted to. VD could have put his money towards a reward instead of a lawyer. And they still have a quite a lot of die-hard supporters, so even if they didn't want to us any of their own money for a reward I think if they begged their supporters for donations they would pour in.

They still don't want a reward, and they still don't want any publicity. JMO.

The way I remember it was that Vilt started talking to the media about offering a reward and within a few days the parents stopped cooperating with him. If anybody cared enough about the topic, we could probably go back into some of the media releases from that time and put together pretty much what happened.

The article link certainly does not say that the parents did not turn down the reward. Honestly, IMO it does not say much of anything.