ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #20

[Hatfield]

If i was a family member under a cloud of suspicion and i was hiring a PI it would be for the sole purpose of finding alternate evidence that pointed away from me and casts a cloud on other people and other scenarios. i would want that evidence held close to the vest to be used in the defense of me or my family member should a trial occur. I do NOT understand klein being hired by "the family" and then publicly making statements. That goes for Vilt too. if they find themselves in a situation where their investigation points to guilt of the parents, for example.. then just shut up. I hired you to help exonerate me not make things worse.

None of this makes sense to me.

This confuses me too especially since it has happened again now with the 2nd PI too.

The only thing I can figure is they thought by hiring the PIs that it would throw suspicioun away from them. It has backfired in both cases.

Which is telling me there is a certain arrogance in thinking that whatever was done with the boy can never be found out. There must be extreme confidence that the PIs can never find the boy. So does this give us a hint what may have happened to him? No way to ever find his body? I don't want to think about fire and flames again but.....?

 

[haven71]

What is the strongest charge they can come up with that does not require a body to be found?

 

[Dee10]

What is the strongest charge they can come up with that does not require a body to be found?

I'm not sure, but perhaps neglect, obstruction, lying to federal/state officers + possibly any child abuse if something shows up from people coming forward / previous medical records...I'm just guessing though.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Defense attorneys hire PI all the time to find "the real killer' etc. That was where my mind was going. I didnt realize this PI firm was hired by family and friends to let the chips fall where they may, so to speak. i was under the possibly erroneous assumption, that the PI firm was hired to find alternate and exonerating info that would take the cloud off the parents and show another possibility for where deorr is/was.

Anything i write is just my opinion.

I'm not so sure the family and friends did hire him directly?

May be I'm naive, but you cannot "find" alternate and exonerating info if it doesn't exist. Klein has stated a few times that his findings have him on the same page has LE.

Time will tell if he's full of hot air.

 

[Rayemonde]

You can be convicted of 1st degree murder without a body. It's easier with a small child, because obviously DeOrr didn't just run away to start a new life somewhere else. It won't be difficult to show that he is no longer alive. Showing that it was intentional or premeditated as opposed to an accident is more difficult without a body, but definitely possible if they have circumstantial evidence. JMO.

 

[Coolmomof4]

How do we know DeOrr was never there? The sales clerk didn't even remember the parents till they went in and jogged her memory. I think it's safe to assume that the clerk was questioned about this and if she remembered the family by LE. This leading to DK and JM both going back into the store and confronting her. But I mean wouldn't you? If your child was missing and you had stopped at a store and the clerk was telling people or LE that it never happen.....wouldn't you stop in there and be like don't you remember me? I'm not real sure if I would consider that DK being a bully. At the point the clerk remembered the parents after saying she didn't when we all know for a fact they were there from the time stamp so that kinda threw off all credibility for the clerk imo and in fact I hear over and over again that a first hand witness can be the worst witness.
I think there is a little to much credit put into this one sales clerk. I don't know her or if she has a memory issue or drug problem. Not saying she does but we don't know. And she never even remembered the parents in the first place. For me that says enough that I can't doubt the parents that DeOrr was never there. Especially since someone said they thought they seen a child in the back seat. That's even all most more credible then the store clerk not remembering and then remembering.


"SB: Well, initially um the store salesperson didn’t remember uh the encounter. When the father uh… I call him Vernal instead of Deorr, it’s Vernal Deorr Kunz…when Vernal and his wife came back to the store several days later then the salesperson said, “Oh, yeah, I remember you!”

02:45
SB: Now I’m not sure…I don’t recall her saying specifically that she remembered the child. She remembered them talking about their child, and they bought some candy and some other items, and we have a dated and time-stamped receipt, so we know they were in the store. And someone while they were fueling up said they thought they saw a child in the back seat, but that hasn’t been ever positively stated that there was a child there, but ya’ know at this point, I’m believing the family!"

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot/page2

Of course I would go back and try to jog the clerk's memory and it makes total sense to do that... If my child was actually with me at the store. If he wasn't then there's a totally different reason why he would go in and ask the clerk those questions. My point is that it hasn't been established without a doubt that Deorr was IN the store with the parents.

 

[kimi_SFC]

Whaaaaat?!?! Mods sleep?!

Part timers :giggle:

:gthanks: to you all for all of your hard work through each and every one of Litttle DeOrr's threads! :yourock:

:grouphug:

:loveyou:

:gomods:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SweetT]

They openly admitted hating him, killed him by shoving baby wipes down his throat and then left him to rot in his cot. Not a single day of true happiness in that baby's lifetime

I remember him, he was a beautiful cute baby, I hadn't read all the details..OMG I just can't believe anyone could do that to such a precious cute little guy.
I would really doubt that Deorrs parents hated him like that, I just don't see it, I don't see daddy going a long with that either.

 

[desert-blue]

I'm not sure, but perhaps neglect, obstruction, lying to federal/state officers + possibly any child abuse if something shows up from people coming forward / previous medical records...I'm just guessing though.

I wonder about charges in relation to the money that they have accepted under false pretenses as well - not sure what those charges would be - some type of fraud?

 

[Midge Montana]

He was paid by the public to find DeOrr. I think his contract must have included wording allowing him to follow the leads regardless of where they went: the goal is to find the truth. The public (not family) were the ones who reached out to Klein and helped to get him on board. Presumably the family member that signed the contract must not have thought JM and DK were involved. I agree that it's an unusual arrangement.

The private investigators were hired to find baby DeOrr. Period. If the family was looking to pay someone to make them look innocent then the appropriate professional to hire would be a public relations expert.

Yes, it is unfortunate for them that, in doing what they were hired to do, the PIs have discovered information that shows the family in a suspect light. That happens sometimes. One very notable example is when Courtney Love hired Tom Grant to investigate the death of her husband Kurt Cobain. He was hired to find the truth and unfortunately he uncovered suspicious evidence pointing to nefarious involvement on the part of Courtney. Grant informed Love that she hired him to do a job (find the truth) and he was doing just that.
Now I'm not looking for a debate on whether Love did or didn't conspire in regards to Kurt's death. I'm just pointing out how that all works. I'm sure there are unethical PIs that could be paid to double as a spin doctor and not ring forth damning evidence. That's clearly not how Vilt and Klein operate.
It appears that they're stating the facts of what they've found. That those facts seem to implicate the parents is something the family obviously didn't count on.

 

[ClaireNC]

He was paid by the public to find DeOrr. I think his contract must have included wording allowing him to follow the leads regardless of where they went: the goal is to find the truth. The public (not family) were the ones who reached out to Klein and helped to get him on board. Presumably the family member that signed the contract must not have thought JM and DK were involved. I agree that it's an unusual arrangement.

I bet some of the family members thought Klein would find that IR and/or GGP were responsible, while others were convinced it was a stranger abduction. That's why they agreed to sign the contract. Either way, their plan backfired.

In my opinion and speculation only.

 

[Karinna]

I find DeOrr's case very perplexing but have been reading along and really can't figure out what's going on with this case. Too many fingers in the pie IMO, and too much confusion. If LE have called them suspects then i hope they really do have the evidence to prove it and make their case and lay charges.

 

[ClaireNC]

The private investigators were hired to find baby DeOrr. Period. If the family was looking to pay someone to make them look innocent then the appropriate professional to hire would be a public relations expert.

Yes, it is unfortunate for them that, in doing what they were hired to do, the PIs have discovered information that shows the family in a suspect light. That happens sometimes. One very notable example is when Courtney Love hired Tom Grant to investigate the death of her husband Kurt Cobain. He was hired to find the truth and unfortunately he uncovered suspicious evidence pointing to nefarious involvement on the part of Courtney. Grant informed Love that she hired him to do a job (find the truth) and he was doing just that.
Now I'm not looking for a debate on whether Love did or didn't conspire in regards to Kurt's death. I'm just pointing out how that all works. I'm sure there are unethical PIs that could be paid to double as a spin doctor and not ring forth damning evidence. That's clearly not how Vilt and Klein operate.
It appears that they're stating the facts of what they've found. That those facts seem to implicate the parents is something the family obviously didn't count on.

I agree with most of your post. However, just to clarify on the part I bolded, defense teams often hire PI's to find evidence and information to help build a defense. The contract would be worded as such and they would go into the work with that focus. That's not what KIC was hired to do.

 

[Angiebla]

I bet some of the family members thought Klein would find that IR and/or GGP were responsible, while others were convinced it was a stranger abduction. That's why they agreed to sign the contract. Either way, their plan backfired.

In my opinion and speculation only.

I wonder if the people that hired Klein knew of the real reason why Vilt quit, and were worried this case was never going to solved. I think it was people that wanted the truth at all costs.

Its my understanding that Vilt worked for the parents, and Klein worked for the public and Deorr Jr.

 

[desert-blue]

I wonder if the people that hired Klein knew of the real reason why Vilt quit, and were worried this case was never going to solved. I think it was people that wanted the truth at all costs.

Its my understanding that Vilt worked for the parents, and Klein worked for the public and Deorr Jr.

It is my understanding that the main person that really worked to get Klein on board is also one of the firmest supporters of the parents. I think DK and JM had a lot of folks duped and Klein's findings were very much a shock to them. Some perhaps are still not accepting Klein's theories until they see proof, which is understandable I guess. It will be interesting to see how it all unfolds. I hope that those close to JM and DK are strongly encouraging them to tell the truth. MOO.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Ugh. I just thought of something. When the day comes and an arrest is announced we still won't know the particulars for a while. More waiting.

 

[mrjitty]

Defense attorneys hire PI all the time to find "the real killer' etc. That was where my mind was going. I didnt realize this PI firm was hired by family and friends to let the chips fall where they may, so to speak. i was under the possibly erroneous assumption, that the PI firm was hired to find alternate and exonerating info that would take the cloud off the parents and show another possibility for where deorr is/was.

Anything i write is just my opinion.

The hiring of PIs is in itself a red flag IMO

 

[Traymar]

It could be quite a bit closer to an hour, since we know the first 911 call was at 2:22 not at 2:36 which is what Jessica said in the interview. That's 14 minutes (1/4 hour) taken off the timeline, plus taking into account approximations, and her missing for an hour statement, and searching for 20 minutes, and being gone for ten minutes comes pretty darn close. IMO

But surely JM is giving the hour estimate based on the time of HER call, not the 2:22 call. There is thus far no evidence to suggest that she was even aware of the earlier call at that point.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

 

[mrjitty]

Being a grand parent myself, this statement from grandpa is heartbreaking.

Interesting the distant language

"that little boy"

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Repeating what JM and DK said they did over and over again is getting us nowhere. Everything from LE and PIs says they LIED. That's what untruthful means.