ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #20

[desert-blue]

It just occurred to me that Penner was asked if they stopped anywhere on the way UP from Idaho Falls and that is when he only mentioned the stop for diesel. Perhaps that is because the visit to the Silver Dollar was not on their way up (as I would have thought) but AFTER they went to the campground. Maybe they went to the campground and then some or all of them went back into town to the Silver Dollar? Maybe?

 

[haven71]

My guess has been that he was only answering one part of the questions in that post. The one asking if someone actually witnessed little Deorr with his parents at the store.

One thing that Klein said has really struck me. When asked about what person besides the POI's last saw DeOrr, Klein answered, "There is none."

I thought I read it wrong at first. Could it be that DeOrr had not been seen for so many days that the parents couldn't give the real account of when someone last saw him without flagging that something happened to him prior to the trip? I just don't get it. There has to be a last person to see him, right? Even if you have to go back to, say, the 4th of July.

Did Klein ever say that the "incident" happened on the mountain during the timeline?

Or could it be that poor little guy was in such bad shape before the trip that they couldn't let anyone see him (or deceased)?


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[kammiemc]

My guess has been that he was only answering one part of the questions in that post. The one asking if someone actually witnessed little Deorr with his parents at the store.

Maybe that's it. I didn't read it that way, but that would make more sense than anything I can gather!


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[ModernAudrey]

Maybe they only 'tried' to get food because their credit/debit card was declined at the Silver Dollar, assuming it is one of those places where you pay before getting your meal. They still likely would have been able to get gas because of how gas pumps run your card--since the final total isn't yet known when you swipe your card, they generally just verify your card by sending through a $1 charge. This charge falls off of your account a few days later, and the correct total is posted. I used to work at a bank, and I have known people to willingly overdraw their account this way regularly in order to get fuel when they need it. Especially if they know their paycheck deposit will hit soon, and they may beat the full gasoline transaction and avoid the overdraft fee.

 

[haven71]

Is someone able to refresh my memory?

Who is Jessica the caretaker of, her own grandfather or Deorr Sr's grandpa? Or did I read that she worked at a care center of some sort?

Just wondering, because surely if she only cares for vfthe grandpa, I'm sure she would have Deorr with her, rather than hire a sitter. If not, Deorr would have to be at a preschool or a babysitter's house (possibly a relative) while she worked. So why can't anyone answer the question of who saw Deorr last, prior to the camping trip?

Such a seemingly easy question to answer, but it hasn't been answered to the best of my knowledge.

 

[Beezneez]

A few thoughts- When we go camping and are pulling a camp trailer we usually drive a normal 5-10 mph above the posted speed. However, my father in law- a good 20 mph below it. So the Google maps estimation of drive time is based on the speed limit (Usually 65 of highways, 80 on freeway in southern Idaho).
Since the Silver Dollar served food little Deorr would have been allowed to go in, if he was there. However, once the grill/kitchen is closed the age limit is raised to 21+. So, if they got there & the kitchen was not open to serve food they would have been asked to take the baby out. That is a pretty clear rule for Idaho establishments with a liquor license & even though it is a small town place, the rules protecting liquor licenses are adhered to pretty carefully.

 

[Angiebla]

What scares me is that I'm starting to suspect his death was not accidental. Outright killing him is beyond what I'm willing to think about.

One reason is that nobody has come forward. I think if it was an accident, even if they covered it up, that someone would have come clean near the beginning. Seems like the first person would get the most leniency, and possibly a plea bargain.

As far as who is the one who actually killed and/or covered it up is anybody's guess. I find it interesting that none of the 4 has pointed the finger toward one another. It almost makes it seem like they are equally guilty. The chance of that IMO is close to nil.

Somebody is going to cave, and probably not the ones who have the most to lose.

Even if IR didn't have any part of it, he's a simple man, and probably easy to manipulate. If he had issues with the control questions, any poly he took would be inconclusive. That doesn't mean he was answering untruthfully.

I think the witnesses outside of the 4 coming foreward is what is moving this case foreward.

I think something happened to Deorr Jr. late Thursday/early morning Friday. I think the parents tried to solve the problem themselves, came up with a story, and then called police. This is my opinion only. I watched the video of the parents interview for the first time yesterday (I didn't want to judge them if they were victims) and Jessica looks like she is already grieving her son's death. IMO.

 

[neesaki]

It just occurred to me that Penner was asked if they stopped anywhere on the way UP from Idaho Falls and that is when he only mentioned the stop for diesel. Perhaps that is because the visit to the Silver Dollar was not on their way up (as I would have thought) but AFTER they went to the campground. Maybe they went to the campground and then some or all of them went back into town to the Silver Dollar? Maybe?

Just thinking... Could there have been someone who witnessed them at the Silver Dollar, and that's one of the points the parents have been "less than truthful" about with LE? Maybe this is one of the things Sheriff B was talking about when he said they repeatedly gave them the opportunity to tell the truth and they wouldn't. jmo

 

[haven71]

Just thinking out loud again...

Is it possible for LE ask permission to do a polygraph test on witnesses, to weed out which are solid leads or not? I wonder how they determine how "reliable" or "solid" a witness is.

 

[haven71]

In Klein's Q and A yesterday, he confirmed they were there because it was a non prosecutionary fact. So for this reason, I am assuming little Deorr was there.

However, if that's the case, why does the timeline begin at 8 am Friday morning? I surmise there must be a definitive sighting of Deorr that morning. Because it sure sounds like they're kind of dismissive about events that happened Thursday evening.

Just thinking... Could there have been someone who witnessed them at the Silver Dollar, and that's one of the points the parents have been "less than truthful" about with LE? Maybe this is one of the things Sheriff B was talking about when he said they repeatedly gave them the opportunity to tell the truth and they wouldn't. jmo

 

[DatelineFan]

Just thinking out loud again...

Is it possible for LE ask permission to do a polygraph test on witnesses, to weed out which are solid leads or not? I wonder how they determine how "reliable" or "solid" a witness is.

I think LE probably works to corroborate witness statements by verifying as much as they can through other witness accounts and probably other things. I highly doubt they would ask a witness to do a polygraph test.

 

[ILOKAL]

What scares me is that I'm starting to suspect his death was not accidental. Outright killing him is beyond what I'm willing to think about.

One reason is that nobody has come forward. I think if it was an accident, even if they covered it up, that someone would have come clean near the beginning. Seems like the first person would get the most leniency, and possibly a plea bargain.

As far as who is the one who actually killed and/or covered it up is anybody's guess. I find it interesting that none of the 4 has pointed the finger toward one another. It almost makes it seem like they are equally guilty. The chance of that IMO is close to nil.

Somebody is going to cave, and probably not the ones who have the most to lose.

Respectfully, did it ever occur to you they may all be equally innocent?

 

[ILOKAL]

Why hasn't JM hired an attorney? If she's trying to make herself look innocent by not lawyering up, well, that might have been understandable in the beginning. But once considered a suspect, it seems almost crazy to me that she hasn't retained one yet. With the seriousness of the case, I doubt it's due to inability to come up with the money. I imagine her extended family and friends would chip in to give her a decent defense. It doesn't strike me that IR would have money lying around to lawyer up, but yet he found a way. Seems like at this point JM would at least want someone to be a mouthpiece for her, like DK's attorney did for him.

I read someplace, don't recall where, that Reinwand's family is wealthy. IMO

 

[haven71]

At the very very beginning I did.

I do admit though that long before they were named suspects, I suspected there was parental involvement, as well as the possibility that IR and/or GGP may have witnessed something.

Respectfully, did it ever occur to you they may all be equally innocent?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Respectfully, did it ever occur to you they may all be equally innocent?

They may be innocent, but they're not exactly acting like it with the story (as told to and confirmed by LE) changing multiple times.

Even if you ignore the two PI's damning reports it remains a fact that LE are very suspicious. They are working closely with another police force and the FBI on this. They've based their decision to make the parents suspects on a hell of a lot more info than we have.

I think we'd all prefer the "DeOrr ran and ran until he fell asleep but sadly never awoke" option and hope that turns out to be the case. It wouldn't explain the discrepancies in the parents version(s) though.

 

[ILOKAL]

Did someone mention that beautiful picture of Jessica kissing DeOrr on the cheek might have been taken inside the truck during this vacation? He has the same white t-shirt and camo jacket on. Just wondering?

 

[bluesneakers]

At the very very beginning I did.

I do admit though that long before they were named suspects, I suspected there was parental involvement, as well as the possibility that IR and/or GGP may have witnessed something.

That's where I'm at. And whether or not JM and DK did something TO DeOrr they're guilty when it comes to what's happened after. Covering up an intentional act or an accident, going along with the SAR as if they didn't know where he was, and lying to the police about what happened and when - I don't know if those are crimes but it's a long way, imo, from being "innocent."

 

[ILOKAL]

It just occurred to me that Penner was asked if they stopped anywhere on the way UP from Idaho Falls and that is when he only mentioned the stop for diesel. Perhaps that is because the visit to the Silver Dollar was not on their way up (as I would have thought) but AFTER they went to the campground. Maybe they went to the campground and then some or all of them went back into town to the Silver Dollar? Maybe?

It might be helpful to actually see the question the way it was asked and listen to how Penner answered it. Does anyone have those quotes handy?

 

[Mountaingazer]

Did someone mention that beautiful picture of Jessica kissing DeOrr on the cheek might have been taken inside the truck during this vacation? He has the same white t-shirt and camo jacket on. Just wondering?

It was mentioned a lot on social media, especially earlier on, but there has not been confirmation from a WS worthy source.

 

[Coolmomof4]

I'm really beginning to think little DeOrr was never alive at the campsite. Either the other two adults were fooled into thinking he was asleep or with the parents, or they're actively helping cover up what they know happened. Either way, I think he died before the camping trip. I hope they are tearing apart the parents' home.