ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #20

[DatelineFan]

I have followed this case from the beginning and read all of the threads. The most logical conclusion I can come up with is this:
I believe the parents, either accidentally or purposefully, caused the death of sweet, beautiful little DeOrr. In an effort to cover their behinds the parents brought a family member in ill health and an easily manipulated acquaintance along on that camping trip in order to create reasonable doubt in the minds of LE, family, and others about what exactly happened to DeOrr and who was involved.

This is exactly my belief; I just haven't come up with a specific scenario of HOW, yet.

 

[bessie]

agree to disagree to agree, Bessie and mick...lol...does that exist?

IF there's a timeline that LE/vilt/klein agree upon, the adults left the restaurant/bar and drove to the campsite on the evening of thursday, july 9th. big IF IMO...the only way klein would come up with an 8am (Friday, july 10th) "start" to the timeline is if one or more of the adults said they woke up and saw/didn't see little deorr. none of this is fact, I'm just trying to create a timeline in the absence of one.

that's where I'm coming from...for now...

I'm happy to agree to disagree, but...

KIC: Very good question. We answered that in one of the many interviews - and I will got over it again. When we first started this case we thought we had the timeline down pretty tight - however - now we have four more witnesses that open the timeline to an extended period. That timeline is now 8 a.m. to 2:26 pm.
February 2 at 12:33pm

As of last week, IR had not spoken to Klein, and Klein clearly doesn't give credence to any of IR's statements. So I'm pretty sure IR is not one of the four. GGP? I doubt that he or either parent changed their story now, and certainly not to Klein.


JVR: Did Isaac confirm that he did see DeOrr alive at the camp site at any time and specifically after the trip to the store?
February 1 at 9:31pm

KIC: This goes to direct testimony. The only comment we will make at this point is that : "It depends on which statement you want to believe that came from Isaac."
February 2 at 12:49pm

 

[LietKynes]

@ TxJan : Thanks.
As far as the general statements from SB/Penner ; if they do not say much more than Klein alluded to, then probably not.
What an odd way to respond regarding the "... any or all...go to the S.D. Restaurant ?" " Yes " (Really ?)
What the heck ? Which is it ??? And if you cannot say, just answer " no comment " .

As far as not answering if DeOrr Jr was with them, and the " we will not comment ..." answer to the question of video placing DeOrr Jr in the truck that day --- makes me think they DO have SOMETHING we aren't privy to yet.
Gives me hope there'll be an answer.
:moo:

 

[LietKynes]

I must have missed this before. What does it even mean? The statements of the four people?!!

RSBM

Agreed.
That makes no sense at all.
What people ? The initial four who were there ?
And two of them are suspects ?
MOO

 

[Beezneez]

RSBM

Agreed.
That makes no sense at all.
What people ? The initial four who were there ?
And two of them are suspects ?
MOO

Could the four witnesses be the older couple camping near by? Didn't they have adult children with them? Maybe this has been ruled out & I missed it.

 

[neesaki]

Could the four witnesses be the older couple camping near by? Didn't they have adult children with them? Maybe this has been ruled out & I missed it.

That's what I was thinking too, the other campers. I don't know who else it could be. Unless we're completely misunderstanding what Klein means , which wouldn't surprise me at this point. :banghead:

 

[Beezneez]

The sweetest little baby boy who had parents from Hell.
Chance Walsh. We have a thread here, and it's completely heartbreaking.

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Again off topic, but my gosh. The idea that parents couldn't blatantly carry on after murdering their child has been completely out of the possibilities. Until now. I cannot bring myself to read much more. I'm thinking of putting a sign up in my yard- just bring me your Baby & get the heck out of here! Sterilization 2-1 price if both parents come. I too pray that little Deorr had happiness and laughter in his little life. Two is such a charming age, little turkeys but so cute they get away with it!

 

[TxJan1971]

FWIW, In addition to the four new witnesses mentioned above in Bessie's last post that expand the timeline, Klein also mentions 9 witnesses:

2-2-16
KB: Mr.Klein,have any other witnesses come foward? How many witnesses gave you information that was useful?

Klein Investigations and Consulting
Yes. A total of 9 with very firm information.

 

[Beezneez]

That's what I was thinking too, the other campers. I don't know who else it could be. Unless we're completely misunderstanding what Klein means , which wouldn't surprise me at this point. :banghead:

I feel like Klein heard a question & thinks of a way he can use it to convey info he already planned on telling. A q&a is stressing the family because they see all the things people are thinking & then zKlein deals them a non-answer due to investigation. That has got to be wearing the nerves. I know as active as TBC JM are on FB that they have been monitoring. <modsnip>

 

[bessie]

So, do you believe that there is a reliable sighting of DeOrr at 8:00 AM? Maybe the witness that came forward but wanted to remain unknown? That's what it seems from the current timeline, but it doesn't go along with Klein saying no one (other than the four POI's) ever saw him for sure... so confusing.

ETA: and it doesn't seem like there is convincing evidence even that all of the POI's actually saw DeOrr either... which is very odd to me.

You don't start a timeline when a person is first noticed to be missing. Think of a scenario where an adult doesn't show up for work, or a child doesn't show up for school. An investigation wouldn't begin at either of those times because they're after the fact. The investigative timeline would go back to when the person was last know to be alive and well. So when Klein says the timeline begins at 8:00 a.m., one naturally would think that is the last time DeOrr can be accounted for. But, Klein's timeline might be incomplete. As I said, he's working backward, and might not have reached the point of a last sighting. In fact, he still maintains there are no confirmed sightings.

Which leads us back to the question of why 8 a.m. is significant. Did someone in the area hear a little child crying or laughing at that time? Did someone see an adult carrying what appeared to be a sleeping child? Did someone see an adult walking near the campsite with a child's blanket? Did someone see an adult walking with a large bundle or trash bag? These are just some ideas. The witness, or witnesses, might have offered something completely different. But imo, whatever it was points to the events commencing around or shortly prior to 8 a.m.

Could the four witnesses be the older couple camping near by? Didn't they have adult children with them? Maybe this has been ruled out & I missed it.

That thought has crossed my mind, too.

 

[Deleted member 718]

This is exactly my belief; I just haven't come up with a specific scenario of HOW, yet.

Well, if you want to believe Klein, he says he knows the how. His thoughts seem to be on the same page as most of us here. Like, what the truck happened up there on the mountain.


January 18th, 2016
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/0...-know-how-were-just-trying-to-figure-out-why/

"Eaton: Have you ever seen a case like this in your professional experience?

Klein: Our firm has done over 900 missing children&#8217;s cases and we&#8217;ve been successful at over 90 percent of those cases. This is kind of one of those cases that matches a few that we&#8217;ve done before but there are some elements to this case that, right when you think you&#8217;ve seen it all, you haven&#8217;t. I would probably classify this case as being one of those where, we thought we&#8217;d seen it all, but now it&#8217;s a little bit different.

I think there&#8217;s a lot of &#8216;why&#8217; questions that need to be asked. I think we know &#8216;how&#8217; we&#8217;re just trying to figure out why and I think that&#8217;s where this case is."

 

[jnblsm]

Again off topic, but my gosh. The idea that parents couldn't blatantly carry on after murdering their child has been completely out of the possibilities. Until now. I cannot bring myself to read much more. I'm thinking of putting a sign up in my yard- just bring me your Baby & get the heck out of here! Sterilization 2-1 price if both parents come. I too pray that little Deorr had happiness and laughter in his little life. Two is such a charming age, little turkeys but so cute they get away with it!

I'm sorry that I was the one that pointed you to his thread.
It's SO much worse than I could've ever have imagined. Please forgive me. I never wished that you would have had to think about the brutality yourself. I should've let someone else point you in that direction.

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[persimmon]

I'm happy to agree to disagree, but...

KIC: Very good question. We answered that in one of the many interviews - and I will got over it again. When we first started this case we thought we had the timeline down pretty tight - however - now we have four more witnesses that open the timeline to an extended period. That timeline is now 8 a.m. to 2:26 pm.
February 2 at 12:33pm

As of last week, IR had not spoken to Klein, and Klein clearly doesn't give credence to any of IR's statements. So I'm pretty sure IR is not one of the four. GGP? I doubt that he or either parent changed their story now, and certainly not to Klein.


JVR: Did Isaac confirm that he did see DeOrr alive at the camp site at any time and specifically after the trip to the store?
February 1 at 9:31pm

KIC: This goes to direct testimony. The only comment we will make at this point is that : "It depends on which statement you want to believe that came from Isaac."
February 2 at 12:49pm

IR himself did state in his recent interview with NE that he saw DeOrr at the campsite after 1:00 pm on Friday. He would not elaborate on that statement but his answer was a definite yes.

Jmo but Klein seems to have a problem with IR that I suppose stems from his unwillingness to be interviewed but that is his right. I would want to help in a missing child case in any way possible but if I saw things getting funky and I realized people were being deceptive and I had unwittingly gotten myself wrapped up in such a horrific situation, I might clam up too at this point. Idk...but this seems to be IR vs Klein as to who to believe about when IR last saw DeOrr.

 

[persimmon]

Just rereading through this thread and I am wondering where the idea that nobody had seen DeOrr in awhile originated? I don't recall that ever being said. If someone could link it I would be grateful.

 

[neesaki]

I feel like Klein heard a question & thinks of a way he can use it to convey info he already planned on telling. A q&a is stressing the family because they see all the things people are thinking & then zKlein deals them a non-answer due to investigation. That has got to be wearing the nerves. I know as active as TBC JM are on FB that they have been monitoring. Plus mutual friends post stuff that I know JM sees. <modsnip>

I guess it's against TOS to expound on that....

 

[Blue Skies]

Perhaps there was a photo taken of Deorr on a phone at 8:00 am Friday? The photo would show the date/time it was taken and that could be how they know he was alive at 8:00 am.


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[persimmon]

I guess it's against TOS to expound on that....

Was wondering the same thing.?

 

[persimmon]

Perhaps there was a photo taken of Deorr on a phone at 8:00 am Friday? The photo would show the date/time it was taken and that could be how they know he was alive at 8:00 am.


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Or...I mentioned yesterday he could have spoken by telephone to JM mother or somebody else.

 

[bessie]

IR himself did state in his recent interview with NE that he saw DeOrr at the campsite after 1:00 pm on Friday. He would not elaborate on that statement but his answer was a definite yes.

He sure did, and that's the same story we heard from SB that IR has given LE. And remember, this was after he spoke again with LE recently. That's why I can't see IR suddenly changing his tune now to say DeOrr was gone when he awoke. SB has stated publicly that IR has been the most consistent of the four. So even if he lied, or especially if he lied, he'd be a fool to change one word at this point. There's no pressure on him to do so, except from Klein.

Jmo but Klein seems to have a problem with IR that I suppose stems from his unwillingness to be interviewed but that is his right. I would want to help in a missing child case in any way possible but if I saw things getting funky and I realized people were being deceptive and I had unwittingly gotten myself wrapped up in such a horrific situation, I might clam up too at this point. Idk...but this seems to be IR vs Klein as to who to believe about when IR last saw DeOrr.

I get the same impression that it's a battle of the wits. Maybe it's a game of good cop/bad cop with SB and Klein. lol

 

[bessie]

I guess it's against TOS to expound on that....

You guessed correctly.