ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #20

[bessie]

Please search Klein and Q&A: he said, there would be "none".

I answered this yesterday. His answer was "there are none", and referred to the comment about "sightings". The questions were "when" questions, and "are none" is not an answer to a "when" question.

So, no sightings, and no response regarding "when" the child was last seen by someone other than the four. JMO

NR: Sorry if this has been asked. When was the last time someone OTHER than Reinwand, Walton, Mitchell and Kunz saw DeOrr?
February 2 at 11:06am

RJ: Yeah, and not vague "well, there might have been a child in store" sightings... When was the last time someone definitely saw him in Idaho Falls? The extended family have never said when they last saw him. And did he seem healthy and happy the last time he was seen?
February 2 at 11:46am

KIC: There are none.
February 2 at 1:15pm

 

[MBK]

RE: 8am - 2:26pm.

There is an adorable photo of JM kissing baby DeOrr and he is wearing a white T-shirt and camo hoodie/jacket that seems to match what he was wearing when he 'disappeared'. Perhaps this photo was taken at 8am Friday morning and serves as the only proof that the baby was alive and well until at least that time. Notably, they are in the truck and DeOrr is not belted into his car seat. Just a thought.

There is something reflected in little Deorr's eyes in this photo. It looks like a white truck? Camper? If someone is good at Photoshop, maybe you can see this clearer.

 

[pepelepolecat]

So what he and you are saying is that the last person to see DeOrr was 8 a.m. Friday morning, right? But.....it still doesn't indicate his wellness state (I know you said "alive")...Does that matter for the timeline starting at 8 a.m.? Or just somebody's eyeballs on him is what it means?

The campers at the upper campground -- the one VDK kept saying he didn't even know existed -- could see clearly into the lower campground. It's possible one of them saw or heard little DK running about and being a 2 yo on a camping trip. Sound carries.

(Although that brings us back to there being some question STILL of no one being 100 percent sure he was there. Sigh)

jmo

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Ok. Thank you for setting that straight. I reviewed the interview and there is no mention of time or day as you noted. I guess I did confuse SB's comment with the interview. He does seem adament that he saw DeOrr at some point and he must have elaborated more with SB. This makes me question Klein's timeline.

No..your smiley didn't seem shouty and I appreciate being corrected when I'm wrong about a fact or detail.

Ha, you're welcome, I don't like to correct people usually but I remember being so frustrated that Nate didn't press him on a time.

Feels a bit Klein versus the Sheriff sometimes. Their timelines are completely different and it's all based on whether DeOrr was seen at 1pm or not. Seems LE believe IR but Klein doesn't.

 

[persimmon]

I answered this yesterday. His answer was "there are none", and referred to the comment about "sightings". The questions were "when" questions, and "are none" is not an answer to a "when" question.

So, no sightings, and no response regarding "when" the child was last seen by someone other than the four. JMO

NR: Sorry if this has been asked. When was the last time someone OTHER than Reinwand, Walton, Mitchell and Kunz saw DeOrr?
February 2 at 11:06am

RJ: Yeah, and not vague "well, there might have been a child in store" sightings... When was the last time someone definitely saw him in Idaho Falls? The extended family have never said when they last saw him. And did he seem healthy and happy the last time he was seen?
February 2 at 11:46am

KIC: There are none.
February 2 at 1:15pm

How do you interpret that? Does he find it irrelevant? Is he saying no one recalls ever seeing DeOrr happy and healthy? I get that he's frustrated by the misinformation he's been given but I think he focus that on the parents because it was their job to know where DeOrr was at each moment and not GGFs or IWs.

From the start, I have been frustrated with the parents for assuming GGF was watching DeOrr...which we are now told was not true. However, that statement was the foundation for their story and for me it speaks to their overall quality as parents.

 

[alreetlike]

JMO but I think Klein is cryptic on purpose sometimes... Because he.wants to give the impression that he knows everything that happened, so he doesn't want any of his statements to come back and haunt him if they later turn out to be false. So I think he sometimes gives ambiguous answers on purpose.

I agree. I'm trying not to get my head in a muddle working out exactly what he's saying.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

IR told NE he saw baby but did not mention a date or time.

Bowerman said, "The mother said that they got back at 1:10 p.m. Isaac doesn’t dispute that. He’s not watching a clock or a watch or anything of that sort, but he concurs that it was around that time period. They got back shortly after 1:00 p.m."

IR doesn't dispute 1:10 but SB isn't saying that IR actually saw baby at that time.

Correct me if I'm wrong; if there are statements from LE that say IR specifically saw the baby after 1:00.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

IR told NE he saw baby but did not mention a date or time.

Bowerman said, "The mother said that they got back at 1:10 p.m. Isaac doesn’t dispute that. He’s not watching a clock or a watch or anything of that sort, but he concurs that it was around that time period. They got back shortly after 1:00 p.m."

IR doesn't dispute 1:10 but SB isn't saying that IR actually saw baby at that time.

Correct me if I'm wrong; if there are statements from LE that say IR specifically saw the baby after 1:00.

You're not wrong. The Sheriff doesn't explicitly confirm that IR saw DeOrr at 1pm. He alludes to it though.

Bessie: I’d like to go back to the friend, Isaac Reinwand, and, if you can just tell us, you said that he said about 1:00 p.m. was the last time he saw them and that would include Deorr—little Deorr? Has he said that he saw Deorr alive and well about 1:00 p.m.?

SB: The mother said that they got back at 1:10 p.m. Isaac doesn’t dispute that. He’s not watching a clock or a watch or anything of that sort, but he concurs that it was around that time period. They got back shortly after 1:00 p.m. The parents decide to go down to the creek to go fishing. Deorr remains behind. He’s not real privy to what the conversation was between grandpa and the parents, but he knows that just the three of them go down to the creek—Mom, Dad & Isaac.

Bessie: …and Isaac. So we know at least as of around 1:00 p.m., 1:10 p.m. or somewhere in there…1:30 – 1:10 1:30, little Deorr was alive and well.

SB: Exactly.

Bessie, what did you take from that? Does the Sheriff believe IR saw DeOrr at 1pm, or was he being vague?

 

[pepelepolecat]

BBM.

No he didn't!!!!

IR only said that he had seen DeOrr at the campsite, he did NOT specify the day or time and would not elaborate. In his interview with Nate Eaton he said:



It was the Sheriff who said IR recalled seeing DeOrr after the store trip at 1ish. He said:



Just clearing that up

It's interesting how the mind plays tricks on your memory -- you fill in the gaps with what you know. Seeing those quotes side-by-side -- SB says that IR concurs that "they" got back around and that IR saw DK at the campsite. This could mean that IR didn't see DK at the campsite at one.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

It's interesting how the mind plays tricks on your memory -- you fill in the gaps with what you know. Seeing those quotes side-by-side -- SB says that IR concurs that "they" got back around and that IR saw DK at the campsite. This could mean that IR didn't see DK at the campsite at one.

Too true! The problem with this case is there really are very few hard facts. I do think though (per my post above with SB's interview) that he was saying Isaac believes DeOrr was alive and well at 1ish.

But then Klein says the whole thing is a myth so....I dunno!

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I answered this yesterday. His answer was "there are none", and referred to the comment about "sightings". The questions were "when" questions, and "are none" is not an answer to a "when" question.

So, no sightings, and no response regarding "when" the child was last seen by someone other than the four. JMO

NR: Sorry if this has been asked. When was the last time someone OTHER than Reinwand, Walton, Mitchell and Kunz saw DeOrr?
February 2 at 11:06am

RJ: Yeah, and not vague "well, there might have been a child in store" sightings... When was the last time someone definitely saw him in Idaho Falls? The extended family have never said when they last saw him. And did he seem healthy and happy the last time he was seen?
February 2 at 11:46am

KIC: There are none.
February 2 at 1:15pm

It's a shame really that "RJ" commented on the original question, it prevented it from getting answered properly.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

The campers at the upper campground -- the one VDK kept saying he didn't even know existed -- could see clearly into the lower campground. It's possible one of them saw or heard little DK running about and being a 2 yo on a camping trip. Sound carries.

(Although that brings us back to there being some question STILL of no one being 100 percent sure he was there. Sigh)

jmo

AFAIK, the upper campground is at the southern end of the reservoir 1/2 mile away from the lower where the family were camping and highly doubt anyone could hear or see anything if they were down there. They could have witnessed something if they traveled into Leadore at some point in the relevant time frame, though.

Re: VDK's seeing into the camp.....I have my doubts. Look at the images below. My opinion is there isn't the elevation difference to see 'down' on to their camp plus the thick tree cover. Unless he was somewhere much higher up and further away than the two other roads.

[video=youtube;7Gm_SPAmsRE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gm_SPAmsRE[/video]

 

[bessie]

You're not wrong. The Sheriff doesn't explicitly confirm that IR saw DeOrr at 1pm. He alludes to it though.



Bessie, what did you take from that? Does the Sheriff believe IR saw DeOrr at 1pm, or was he being vague?

I don't know if he believes it. He's certainly not stating it as a fact. The only thing that's a fact is that IR said it.

I find this is where a lot of confusion and rumors get started. It's no wonder LE officials often are reluctant to comment.

IR told NE he saw baby but did not mention a date or time.

Bowerman said, "The mother said that they got back at 1:10 p.m. Isaac doesn’t dispute that. He’s not watching a clock or a watch or anything of that sort, but he concurs that it was around that time period. They got back shortly after 1:00 p.m."

IR doesn't dispute 1:10 but SB isn't saying that IR actually saw baby at that time.

Correct me if I'm wrong; if there are statements from LE that say IR specifically saw the baby after 1:00.

No, there are none.

 

[Hoosgirl]

Thank you, Bessie, for the reminder about the media thread, and to you and all the posters that keep it updated! It is interesting to go back in light of recent developments.

LEMHI SHERIFF RELEASES DETAILS ON MISSING CHILD
IDAHO 0 Updated at 6:07 pm, July 12th, 2015 By: EIN Staff
SHARE THIS STORY

The following is a news release from the Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office posted Sunday afternoon:

On July 10, 2015 at approximately 1435 (2:35 PM) Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office 911 Dispatch Center received a call from family members that their 2 ½ year old son went missing from their camp and had been missing for an hour.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/lemhi-sheriff-releases-details-on-missing-child/

 

[Paulas88]

I have followed this case from the beginning and read all of the threads. The most logical conclusion I can come up with is this:
I believe the parents, either accidentally or purposefully, caused the death of sweet, beautiful little DeOrr. In an effort to cover their behinds the parents brought a family member in ill health and an easily manipulated acquaintance along on that camping trip in order to create reasonable doubt in the minds of LE, family, and others about what exactly happened to DeOrr and who was involved.

Yes. This! I now 100% believe that DeOrr was NEVER there. IMO

 

[pepelepolecat]

AFAIK, the upper campground is at the southern end of the reservoir 1/2 mile away from the lower where the family were camping and highly doubt anyone could hear or see anything if they were down there. They could have witnessed something if they traveled into Leadore at some point in the relevant time frame, though.

Re: VDK's seeing into the camp.....I have my doubts. Look at the images below. My opinion is there isn't the elevation difference to see 'down' on to their camp plus the thick tree cover. Unless he was somewhere much higher up and further away than the two other roads.

[video=youtube;7Gm_SPAmsRE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gm_SPAmsRE[/video]

bbm -- so another "less than truthful" statement? This is such an easily disproved lie ... what would be the point of it?

Again -- sigh

I feel like there're no real facts known beyond "DeOrr Kunz is missing." Is anything we know true?

 

[Beezneez]

That's what I was thinking too, the other campers. I don't know who else it could be. Unless we're completely misunderstanding what Klein means , which wouldn't surprise me at this point. :banghead:

You guessed correctly.

Woops! I'll try to be more mindful in the future!

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

Well, if you want to believe Klein

That is certainly something to ponder.

 

[Beezneez]

sbm

I feel like there're no real facts known beyond "DeOrr Kunz is missing." Is anything we know true?

Deorr is missing and his parents are not telling the truth about it. That's about it.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Deorr is missing and his parents are not telling the truth about it. That's about it.

You hit the nail on the head but how depressing, do we really know no more than that?!

:gaah: