ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #20

[haven71]

I wonder about the people we know who were in the area around the time Deorr disappeared.

IIRC there was the older couple at the campsite. Seems like they were cleared quickly on their merry way. Not much mention of them at all. I wonder if they are as clueless as we are made to believe? Maybe they saw or heard a child? It's a hard theory to buy though, because I can't think of a logical reason they would've held out so long. Or maybe they didn't? Maybe LE didn't want the POI's to know that the other campers had damning information.

Also, the cremains dumper. I can't remember when the dumping took place, but it was during the search. Farfetched, but there's always the possibility that the person "scoped out" the reservoir the day of the search before choosing it as a spot to scatter their loved one's ashes. They could've seen or heard something.

Then again, (taken with a grain of salt now) the POI's were insistent that nobody came in or out of the campground. The cremains were dumped during the search, although I can't recall the day. But why they wouldn't come forward is Greek to me. Although, SB might've been holding this close to the vest too, since only a simple statement or two was ever made about the cremains dumper.

Then again, I believe they said they were cleared.

So, nevermind. LOL

 

[Hoosier952]

If RC saw the 4 adults in the Silver Dollar without Deorr, she would have had no clue whether Deorr was supposed to be there unless someone told her that Deorr was out in the truck sleeping, and I can't imagine any parent admitting they left a kid unattended in a vehicle. However, after Deorr was reported missing, she may have remembered the 4 were in without him and started questioning things.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

There could have been hikers or other customers passing through at the SD on the evening of of Thursday 9th July that either didn't want to get involved initially or have been tracked down via CC payment or the like?

 

[Niner]

snipped by me...

The only thing you won't find is a timeline. WS member Niner put a lot of effort into compiling one, but as we well know, the timeline is so sketchy, that to avoid adding to the confusion, I felt it was best to remove it.

But I am keeping it updated to ALL the "new" stuff that's being released! And when we get a reasonable Timeline, I'll send it to Bessie ( :wave: ) for approval! Wish Klein would post what HIS Timeline is...

snipped by me....

Eaton: Where have they been inconsistent? Can you go through a few examples?

Bowerman: Our timeline has constantly changed. A lot of small facts – things that should be important to them, important in their memory – have changed. From who made the decision to do what or who cooked that morning or who took a fishing pole down to the creek – just minor changes like that constantly changing.

But... if you are upset that first day, you ARE going to forget the "small facts" and just try to tell the Sheriff the "main facts"... some minor changes are going to happen, no?
:thinking:

okay - only on page 2 so will post this now... cguru:

 

[Midge Montana]

But I am keeping it updated to ALL the "new" stuff that's being released! And when we get a reasonable Timeline, I'll send it to Bessie ( :wave: ) for approval! Wish Klein would post what HIS Timeline is...



But... if you are upset that first day, you ARE going to forget the "small facts" and just try to tell the Sheriff the "main facts"... some minor changes are going to happen, no?
:thinking:

okay - only on page 2 so will post this now... cguru:

Thanks for keeping up with the timeline even if we can't use it yet. That's a job and a half right there!

 

[ConcernedCitizenID]

There could have been hikers or other customers passing through at the SD on the evening of of Thursday 9th July that either didn't want to get involved initially or have been tracked down via CC payment or the like?

I agree with you. If you do a Google search on "Leadore" you will find quite of few people who keep/kept blog writings of their small town adventures / hiking, etc. and Leadore comes up a lot. The Silver Dollar Bar keeps long, late hours in the summer time, presumably because they have customers to keep it open for. It's possible that LE checked credit card swipe records that happened at the store for July 9th/ 10th and contacted those folks (likely out-of-towners). Perhaps some of them turned out to have information. They may never had known otherwise that a boy had gone missing around the time they visited The Silver Dollar Bar. JMO...

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

But... if you are upset that first day, you ARE going to forget the "small facts" and just try to tell the Sheriff the "main facts"... some minor changes are going to happen, no?
:thinking:

To be fair I think SB was talking about the last six months and multiple statements and polygraphs, not just the first day. Between both parents there has been 11 statements and 9 polygraphs IIRC and if things have changed in most of these then something must be off.

 

[kammiemc]

I wonder why Vernal isn't using his new legal representation to shush up Vilt or Klein. It would seem that someone perceived to be an insider to the case who is now publicly declaring the parents likely responsible for their child's death would be my first loud and clear target in defending myself, if I were an innocent parent being accused. In addition to refocusing the investigation on finding the missing child and reiterating a commitment to cooperation with law enforcement and the investigation. Yet this isn't happening. I wonder what that lawyer is up to, since there does not seem to be any legal action publicly ​going on at the moment.

Seems like, in terms of DK, Klein isn't say too much more than LE. I guess the lawyer could threaten to sue, but wouldn't he have to prove what Klein is saying is untrue? https://www.google.com/search?q=pro...8&hl=en&client=safari#hl=en&q=proving+slander


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I know this is very frustrating for all of us. If it was a simple case of a lost boy it seems things would be much clearer. So jotted down some things that have contributed to the confusion.

All JMO

-When story first broke there was an unclear "story" of what exactly happened. Too much confusion of who saw him last and where was he last.

- 3 out of 4 of the group called 911 to report him missing. Why did all 3 call at roughly all the same time?

- LE + PIs both say inconsistent stories and conflicting information from 4 adults who were there. From interviews, not lie detector tests.

-Lie detector tests inconclusive and/or less than truthful in some cases.

-4 or 5 lie detector tests being given. That is a lot IMO which indicates LE + FBI was not happy about results.

- Just recently we are hearing about a stop at a restaurant on Thursday night. New information this late in the game is indicative of certain information was being withheld originally. So why would that be? Did LE withhold it or did 4 withhold it? Is it an important part of what happened? What other new information is important to know and has not been shared?

- At this point, depending on how we interpret statements, it is hard to agree that anyone outside of the 4 saw an alive boy that weekend.

- There are 4 brand new witnesses outside of the original 4 that we are learning about that may have saw something. And according to Klein maybe a 5th person because he used the number 9 in one answer during Q+A. So what new information do these witnesses provide that could be important to help understand what happened?
Why are we just learning about these additional witnesses?
If they are the other campers then we may have heard bits and pieces about them earlier. Who is the 9th person?

-The whole cremains "thing" is just so unbelievably coincidental that it is tough to believe it was not somehow related. What are the odds that during the very first search for the boy, we learn of people dumping cremains in the very area they are searching.
Who were the people? Were they in any relation whatsoever to the 4 that were camping?
Sheriff went so far as saying something like "came in behind them" or something along those lines.
Just totally incredibly coincidental. Almost too much coincidence.

-After an exhaustive search by LE and many SAR groups there continues to be no sign of the boy around that campground.


The only good news is that we will never give up in trying to find out what happened. Humans are good in that way. There will always be people that will keep trying to determine what happened and where he is. So if anybody ever thought things would just go away eventually, they are mistaken. We humans never give up and especially with a young child. It may take months, years, and even decades but people will always keep trying to find out what happened. So if something malicious did happen then those people need to live their entire life looking over their shoulder.
Not a good way to live life. They can end the paranoia by coming clean to LE and let the chips fall where they may. Especially those who may have not really been responsible and were taken along for the ride. No reason to live your life being paranoid for something that is not really your doing.

With all that said, lets keep going. Where is little Deorr?

bbm
A lightning thought, sorry: What if the ashes were ashes of little Deorr and the dogs weren't confused because of wrong clues but they were focused on the very right clues?
I know, I know: it sounds like an idiotic fantasy ...

As you said it: With all that said, lets keep going. Where is little Deorr?

 

[Rayemonde]

But I am keeping it updated to ALL the "new" stuff that's being released! And when we get a reasonable Timeline, I'll send it to Bessie ( :wave: ) for approval! Wish Klein would post what HIS Timeline is...



But... if you are upset that first day, you ARE going to forget the "small facts" and just try to tell the Sheriff the "main facts"... some minor changes are going to happen, no?
:thinking:

okay - only on page 2 so will post this now... cguru:

Yes, and genuine memories can change too... Memory isn't infallible. But the FBI behavioural experts will know all about that and will know which changes are indicative of dishonesty and which are just indicative of poor memory.

 

[Rayemonde]

A lightning thought, sorry: What if ths ashes was these of little Deorr and the dogs weren't confused because of wrong clues but they were focused on the very right clues? - I will write this in the smallest size - I know, it sounds like a fantasy, like crime mystery of the century ...

I don't think that's likely, but I do think it's possible he died near or in the reservoir and then his body was moved... If the dogs kept leading them to the reservoir but the body was gone, how would they know if the dogs were detecting the cremains or not? :thinking:

 

[Paulas88]

You guys, let's get real. It's all been BS. DeOrr was never there. And taking GGF and
IR, TWO disabled witnesses, was just to bolster the missing, then, abducted myth.
How they did it, I don't know.... but I don't think we realize how impressionable the
two other witnesses were. And that has been the problem since the beginning.

 

[Rayemonde]

I remember we discussed the baby Rainn case and compared it to DeOrr's case... She apparently got out of the house when her grandparents were watching her, and was found alive 2 days later and about a mile away. Some people used her as an example that search teams with dogs and helicopters can miss toddlers who wander off, and that the public are too quick to suspect foul play. Well, it looks like there may have been foul play involved in her case after all.

http://fox8.com/2016/02/05/trumbull-county-sheriff-shares-new-details-in-the-rainn-peterson-case/

 

[Niner]

posting this before going to page 4...

Originally Posted by wondering25 View Post

It is hard to imagine that anyone will be charged with murder. The child was 2 and 1/2. The parents have not turned on each other. The possibility always exists that he is somewhere up there and fell prey to the elements, animals, the water whatever. There is no body. The parents say abduction. What jury member would convict on these ambiguous details? It appears LE and the PI have decided to turn up the heat. i dont think it is going to work. JMO

bbm

Not yet, but ...we will wait and see.

:waiting:

I know you all were discussing this last night, but had a few comments to make!

IMO because if true, deorr was last seen at the silver dollar @ 9:30 at night and IR said he woke up at 8 and never saw him.

DK and JM fabricated the morning story and "walk to the minnows" BS...implicating IR and GGPA as staying behind and 'watching him' without ever getting either to comprehend the 'story', agree to it, nor repeat it correctly.

so taking all four "accounts" into play, from 8:00am on, one at least never saw deorr. that's when the "timeline" begins. the "crimeline", however, could've happened well before that...

snipped by me...
KIC: Very good question. We answered that in one of the many interviews - and I will got over it again. When we first started this case we thought we had the timeline down pretty tight - however - now we have four more witnesses that open the timeline to an extended period. That timeline is now 8 a.m. to 2:26 pm.
February 2 at 12:33pm

https://www.facebook.com/bellasfrien...88440941411392

The 8:00 a.m. witness is not IR, imo.

on your quote White Rabbit - is that what IR actually said - he got up at 8am? Haven't seen that posted before...

Okay - didn't "someone" say that GGP & IR went fishing THAT Friday morning, and DK saw the fish and asked "where" they had caught them? Fish for breakfast around 8am? Wouldn't GGP & IR go fishing EARLY Friday morning - like maybe 6am... Other fishermen maybe saw little DeOrr? Last time DeOrr was seen at breakfast at 8am? Maybe the people above their campsite saw the smoke for cooking breakfast and actually "saw" little DeOrr playing? I would have looked down if I saw smoke rising just to make sure it wasn't a forest fire starting?

I don't know "where" I go from there... :waitasec:

 

[bluesneakers]

I remember we discussed the baby Rainn case and compared it to DeOrr's case... She apparently got out of the house when her grandparents were watching her, and was found alive 2 days later and about a mile away. Some people used her as an example that search teams with dogs and helicopters can miss toddlers who wander off, and that the public are too quick to suspect foul play. Well, it looks like there may have been foul play involved in her case after all.

http://fox8.com/2016/02/05/trumbull-county-sheriff-shares-new-details-in-the-rainn-peterson-case/

I think this is no surprise to most of the posters on Rainn's thread.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

You guys, let's get real. It's all been BS. DeOrr was never there. And taking GGF and
IR, TWO disable witnesses, was just to bolster the missing, then, abducted myth.
How they did it, I don't know.... but I don't think we realize how impressionable the
two other witnesses were. And that has been the problem since the beginning.

Maybe one of the disabled called the tune and 3 other are rather impressionable ...? All is possible.

 

[bluesneakers]

Maybe one of the disabled called the tune and 3 other are rather impressionable ...? All is possible.

What does called the tune mean?

 

[Hatfield]

bbm
A lightning thought, sorry: What if the ashes were ashes of little Deorr and the dogs weren't confused because of wrong clues but they were focused on the very right clues?
I know, I know: it sounds like an idiotic fantasy ...

As you said it: With all that said, lets keep going. Where is little Deorr?

Its as good a theory as any others. I do think it is possible especially if we find out that the last time he was seen alive by anyone was way earlier in the week. Like Monday or Tuesday or Wednesday.

In order for that theory to have any grounds there would have to be some sort of connection to the people that dropped the cremains.
LE did not provide any information about who those people were or where they came from. I sure hope LE did enough research to see if there was any possible connection to friends or family.

 

[Rayemonde]

I really think the cremains was just coincidental... It's probably a special place for a lot of people, and ashes probably get scattered there regularly. JMO.

 

[Little Ol Me]

I don't think that's likely, but I do think it's possible he died near or in the reservoir and then his body was moved... If the dogs kept leading them to the reservoir but the body was gone, how would they know if the dogs were detecting the cremains or not? :thinking:

I don't like to theorize on what may have happened, because it can be so many different things. However, from the beginning I've thought it very likely Deorr wandered off, at some point, and drowned either in the creek, or reservoir.

I still feel that is a very real possibility, even though SB feels the reservoir has been thoroughly searched.
SB also said that "the initial dogs" went to the reservoir and back to the camground, in his first interview with NE.
Later, other dogs lead them back to the reservoir as you pointed out. Was it because of the remains?
I won't say I believe his body may have been moved, but it certainly could have been.

Mr. Kline thinks he knows the "How", but not the "why". It's seems likely he may consider drowning, as the "how", but not "why" the body has not been found.